[tranquility]

I was searching for new houses and found some nice ones so I was getting all excited until I saw those 2 dreaded words "septic tank"

Like, wth, the site is not in the boonies and I'm sure there is access to the city's sewage system, so why would a builder choose to have septic tanks instead?

Mind you, I'm just a novice on this topic, but apparently one needs to have the tank emptied every 3-5 years. I guess the majority of waste is emptied from the tank but some is intended to seep into one's property? Doesn't sound very appealing. It all seems like a pita vs what ppl take for granted w the city sewage system.

I don't really care about any cost savings, the main thing is not to have any added inconvenience or any nasty thing happening from a worst-case scenario situation.

Anyway, are there any proponents of septic tanks and why would ppl prefer that over city sewers?

[Maynard]

Chances are that if a nice new house has septic, then connecting to city system wasn't an option (at least around here). Some older places never transitioned over, and would be outliers in their neighborhoods. Connecting later, after they install city lines can be expensive. If I had a choice I'd probably prefer city sewers, but our current place is on septic and I don't mind at all. I certainly wouldn't pass up a nice house just for this reason.

There are some extra needs/hassles, but relatively minor - you have to have some restraint about what you flush down drains (grease, things that don't disolve, that stale gas from the project you are rebuilding, etc). The tank needs cleaned out, but we pay a guy a few hundred every 3 or 4 years, and just need to re-seed a 2x2 patch in the lawn where they dig down to the port. You can push this quite a ways, like 5-10 years depending on how much you are putting into it, but then they can have bigger issues so we just do it on a schedule. You also have to avoid building (or driving really heavy trucks) over the tank or leach field. They get a bad rap, but the Hollywood thing with a huge reeking bog of sewage in your lawn is about as likely as actually blowing engine parts through your hood - a truly worst-case rarity.

The big advantage to septic is that it is almost impossible to have your sewer back up into the house - our first home would have flood overflow (with the sewage mixed in) back up into the basement during big rains that overwhelmed the main lines. They also usually have much shorter main feed runs, so less issues with roots growing in, etc.

[BMWCCA1]

I find it hard to believe that where a public sewer is accessible, that anyone would be allowed to, much less choose to, go with a septic system. That being said . . . .

We've been on a septic system in our new house now for five-years. Never ever occurred to us to have the system pumped. Our old house built in the '40s we lived in down the street for 38-years was on an ancient septic system and the only problem was tree trimmers crushed the Orangeburg pipe coming out of the house to the septic tank (look up Orangeburg). At that time they never could find our distribution system so we had a complete new one put in, and never pumped that one in probably twenty-years.

The new house got a tank the size of a large SUV and some high-tech distribution lines. I'm not worried about it, but then I didn't have a choice. We're on a well, too, so when my friends in neighborhoods with private water systems complain about the cost of water and sewage, I can't really commiserate. But my water tastes better than theirs!

[spazzyfry123]

Building a house now that will have septic. House before was septic. House before that was septic. House before that was septic.

The only time I’ve had a sewage problem was actually a townhouse I rented that was connected to the sewer.

I wouldn’t even think twice. Have it pumped/inspected and ride on. Be conscious of what goes down the drain and maintain it. I like the monthly drop in things I’ll flush down the toilet.

[tranquility]

Tx for the info/experiences guys. I'm just a newbie so it was good reading. I'm already quite vigilant about what goes where, e.g. grease goes into a small bag and into the trash and only human waste and TP into the toilet. Good pt about potential sewer backups, but I wonder if the same could happen if septic tank maintenance is ignored?

I just assumed that site has access to the sewers since it's in an urban area but maybe I'm wrong...unless it's somehow cheaper for the builder to implement septic tanks? I have no idea.

BMWCCA1 surely your tank needs to be pumped out periodically, right? I'm getting worried for you haha.

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by spazzyfry123

Building a house now that will have septic. House before was septic. House before that was septic. House before that was septic.

The only time I’ve had a sewage problem was actually a townhouse I rented that was connected to the sewer.

I wouldn’t even think twice. Have it pumped/inspected and ride on. Be conscious of what goes down the drain and maintain it. I like the monthly drop in things I’ll flush down the toilet.

Tx also for your post. Oh, what does your bolded mean?

[tranquility]

Oh, silly question: so water supply is from the city but sewers are not because it's harder to build the latter's infrastructure? Someone mentioned that they have a well, so they only get their water there? I just assume that those new houses I was looking at has city water supply, don't tell me it could be something else haha.

[ASAP]

i would confirm the location of the septic tank... i.e. if its in your backyard and you want a pool... you would need to relocate it... that's not always possible and often very expensive.

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by ASAP

i would confirm the location of the septic tank... i.e. if its in your backyard and you want a pool... you would need to relocate it... that's not always possible and often very expensive.

Good question. I'm not big on pools so that's ok w me. However, does the location otherwise matter, e.g. the further from house the better, on a slope, etc?


I also wonder if there have been any prbs when the ppl come to pump out the contents, like escaping odors, spillage, other messes?

[omasou]

Originally Posted by BMWCCA1

I find it hard to believe that where a public sewer is accessible, that anyone would be allowed to, much less choose to, go with a septic system. That being said . . . .

We've been on a septic system in our new house now for five-years. Never ever occurred to us to have the system pumped. Our old house built in the '40s we lived in down the street for 38-years was on an ancient septic system and the only problem was tree trimmers crushed the Orangeburg pipe coming out of the house to the septic tank (look up Orangeburg). At that time they never could find our distribution system so we had a complete new one put in, and never pumped that one in probably twenty-years.

The new house got a tank the size of a large SUV and some high-tech distribution lines. I'm not worried about it, but then I didn't have a choice. We're on a well, too, so when my friends in neighborhoods with private water systems complain about the cost of water and sewage, I can't really commiserate. But my water tastes better than theirs!

Ewee. Dude you need to pump that ~every three years. Not only do they pump it but they check to make sure everything is working correctly.

You should really educate yourself on how the system works and why not pumping will eventually clog the system and be very expensive to replace/redo the sand mound.

[omasou]

I thought, I would never want a house w/septic, well, etc. It’s not a problem until the power goes out, so as long as you have a back up you’re fine.

If there’s a well install a continuous velocity pump and you won’t be able to tell the difference from public water, convenience wise with the added benefit that the water won’t be treated with fluoride or chlorine.

If a well/septic makes you uneasy. Think of this…

On average, a glass of tap water has been through about six people before reaching your faucet

[M_Six]

When I lived in MA many years ago, the condo building we lived in had a septic tank and leaching field. Worked fine until the jackasses at the town hall allowed a builder to fill in the wetlands behind us and build houses back there. After that, there was no place for the water to go during heavy rains, so the back yard of the condo building flooded. As you can guess, if your leaching field and tank are under water, your drains don't work. We lived on the ground floor closest to the septic system, so when it was flooded and people upstairs took showers, that water would bubble up in our bathtub. It was awful. We finally got the building connected to town sewerage.

Our current house has a septic system with two tanks, an aerator, and an outfall pipe. The system works with bacteria in the first tank that is supported by the aerator. It breaks down almost anything. The next tank lets any remaining solids settle out. That tank has a 25' outfall pipe at the top where supposedly clean water then flows out into the vast woods behind our house. I've seen numerous animals like deer and raccoons drinking the water coming out of that pipe, so it can't be too nasty, I guess. We just have to be careful not to use anti-bacterial soap or flush anything that might kill bacteria or clog the aerator.

The other thing to think about with septic vs town sewerage is if the water cycle in your area is an open or closed system. We live above the huge Midwest aquifer, so our water comes out of the ground under us (and several other states). We don't have a well, but the local water utility company has wells that pull water from the aquifer and supply it to us. Because our septic system then returns the water we use to the ground, it eventually finds its way back to the aquifer. That's a closed system and is self-sustaining. We literally can't "waste" water.

If your town or city sewerage system dumps water out into the ocean, like many coastal communities, then that is an open system. Your water comes from a lake or river or aquifer, but once you use it, it's lost out to the ocean. That type of system can experience water shortages if your supply side doesn't keep up with usage. Cape Cod in MA is always walking that tightrope. They literally have a finite supply of water under them and their sewerage system treats the wastewater and pipes it out into the ocean. Luckily they get enough annual precipitation to meet demand. But you can imagine they're always worried about over-development or a nasty event that contaminates the aquifer.

Your community may have a sewerage system, but if there is a river between your house and the sewerage treatment plant, you usually can't connect to the sewerage system for obvious reasons. In some larger cities, they run sewerage lines across rivers via bridging structures. But smaller communities may not be able to afford such infrastructure or there may be environmental reasons preventing it.

TLDR; properly installed septic systems work. The ones that fail are either installed improperly, poorly designed, or have been affected by nearby development. There is a newish (10-15 year old) neighborhood near us that has septic tanks and leaching fields. In the summer you can clearly see where the leaching field pipes are because the grass grows thicker and greener over the pipes. I wouldn't be happy paying $500k for a house where the leaching field was making patterns on my lawn.

That ends today's lesson on septic systems. There will be a quiz later.

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by omasou

I thought, I would never want a house w/septic, well, etc. It’s not a problem until the power goes out, so as long as you have a back up you’re fine.

How long does the power have to be out for that to be a prb? I didn't know electricity affects it to potentially cause a mess.

Originally Posted by M_Six

When I lived in MA many years ago, the condo building we lived in had a septic tank and leaching field...

TLDR; properly installed septic systems work. The ones that fail are either installed improperly, poorly designed, or have been affected by nearby development. There is a newish (10-15 year old) neighborhood near us that has septic tanks and leaching fields. In the summer you can clearly see where the leaching field pipes are because the grass grows thicker and greener over the pipes. I wouldn't be happy paying $500k for a house where the leaching field was making patterns on my lawn.

That ends today's lesson on septic systems. There will be a quiz later.

Wow, I thought there's no way for septic tanks to work for massive communities like condos...woah! What was the size of that sucker?

What's a leaching field...is that where all the waste goes directly underneath? Can you use that land for anything, e.g. grow veggies, or it's useless save for that function?

Ya, I'm gonna fail that quiz, I know, I know.


Is this the basic idea? Very interesting topic, keep your posts coming!

[spazzyfry123]

Originally Posted by tranquility

Tx also for your post. Oh, what does your bolded mean?

[omasou]

Originally Posted by tranquility

Good question. I'm not big on pools so that's ok w me. However, does the location otherwise matter, e.g. the further from house the better, on a slope, etc?


I also wonder if there have been any prbs when the ppl come to pump out the contents, like escaping odors, spillage, other messes?

In my township new construction have to do perc tests and identified two spots. One where the sand mound will be and a second where a new sand mound must go if the first fails. B/c of this new ruling all new lots must be >= 3 acres.

If your builder didn’t do it. The biggest issue is digging out the area and installing risers to pump the septic. Otherwise you’ll pay a fortune for them to dig it up every 3 years. My dbox is ~3’-4’ below grade.

Also three years is an average based on the size of the septic system and number of family members. In my case 2000 gals for 3 people. I could probably pump every 4 maybe 5 years but our township requires us to file a pump receipt every three years b/c a very old section of the township had houses on 1/2 acre lots and a lot of systems failed due to negligence and neglect.

[Llarry]

I've lived with a septic tank and drain field for 20 years now. Not a problem. My older tank had a concrete lid that cracked and the septic company put in a riser (sort of like a manhole cover but a bit smaller and made of sturdy plastic) so future pumpings are easy.

[omasou]

Originally Posted by tranquility

How long does the power have to be out for that to be a prb? I didn't know electricity affects it to potentially cause a mess.

Where I live, I have a well and septic. If the electricity goes out, no well, no pump, etc. There's no problem as long as you don't keep flushing the toilets, which would add to the tank but it wouldn't fill after only a few days. Since the power typically goes out when in bad storms, ground water from the rain if bad enough (Nor'easter type rain) could overwhelm the effluent tank w/o electricity to run the pump to pump it out. Unless your system is 100% gravity based.

Originally Posted by tranquility

Wow, I thought there's no way for septic tanks to work for massive communities like condos...woah! What was the size of that sucker?

Next time you drive past a farm you should see a huge circular cement circle. That is the the farm's septic for all of the animals.

Originally Posted by tranquility

What's a leaching field...is that where all the waste goes directly underneath? Can you use that land for anything, e.g. grow veggies, or it's useless save for that function?

The picture you included is basically how it works. The waste exits the house, into the first holding tank to let the solids settle. This is what needs to be pumped. The waste water rises until it floats over the divider into the second tank. A pump pumps the water into the leaching field/sand mound through perforated PVC pipes and leaches/filters downward through the sand into the earth until it hits the water table. Sounds like M_Six has a slightly different system.

Things you need to think of.

1) The more waste the quicker the solids build up and need to be pumped. So most folks don't use a garbage disposal. Not a big deal if you really want one you can.

2) You don't want to flush things that do not decompose and/or float b/c they will go over the tank wall and clog the pump or worse PVC pipes, e.g. baby wipes and femine products.

3) Dilute the system with tons of water reducing or killing the bacteria. Washing machines, bleach. Really not an issue for a normal household. Probably would have to drain a swimming pool amount of water through the system to cause an issue. If you're really worried about it you can buy products like those posted above and flush them down the toilet every now and then. I've not had any issue.

You cannot use the leach field/sand mound land. Roots could clog the pipes. Keep trees and bushes away.

[BMWCCA1]

Originally Posted by omasou

You should really educate yourself on how the system works and why not pumping will eventually clog the system and be very expensive to replace/redo the sand mound.

I guess when you build where you don't have to fight nature and ecology, things are vastly different. Never heard of a "sand mound" here in Virginia. My education came from watching the contractor install the tank, the D-box, and the drain field live and in-person. At two houses. We use the natural terrain which requires no pumps so I don't really understand the comment about power-failures, either. Though we do have a whole-house generator which has never had to engage in the year we've had it. I've lived in two homes with well and septic. Never had a need to pump either over a combined period of probably 40-years. I know my hydrologist, and I watched the perk test when we bought our current lot over 35-years ago, and I watched them again when we applied for our building permit.

Our topography did not require an undersized "engineered" septic tank like those in the mountain resorts on tiny lots nearby have to have. Our soil required no "sand mounds". We were required to show two drain fields on our land which on 5-acres wasn't difficult. There is a stream and spring on our property which is part of the local reservoir's protection and watershed so we were subject to legal setbacks for all of our systems. We comply with all regulations without holding tanks, pumps, or "engineered" tanks. And we don't have to build artificial septic topography or augment our soil to perk properly. By choice, we do not use a garbage disposal. We do compost though. Or feed the deer and foxes, which is more accurate!

We love where we live. But thanks for your concern. I'm sure that's important where your population density and growth have compromised waste water management.

[omasou]

For the OP. More about caring for a septic systems.

https://www.epa.gov/septic/how-care-your-septic-system

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by BMWCCA1

I guess when you build where you don't have to fight nature and ecology, things are vastly different. Never heard of a "sand mound" here in Virginia. My education came from watching the contractor install the tank, the D-box, and the drain field live and in-person. At two houses. We use the natural terrain which requires no pumps so I don't really understand the comment about power-failures, either. Though we do have a whole-house generator which has never had to engage in the year we've had it. I've lived in two homes with well and septic. Never had a need to pump either over a combined period of probably 40-years. I know my hydrologist, and I watched the perk test when we bought our current lot over 35-years ago, and I watched them again when we applied for our building permit.

Our topography did not require an undersized "engineered" septic tank like those in the mountain resorts on tiny lots nearby have to have. Our soil required no "sand mounds". We were required to show two drain fields on our land which on 5-acres wasn't difficult. There is a stream and spring on our property which is part of the local reservoir's protection and watershed so we were subject to legal setbacks for all of our systems. We comply with all regulations without holding tanks, pumps, or "engineered" tanks. And we don't have to build artificial septic topography or augment our soil to perk properly. By choice, we do not use a garbage disposal. We do compost though. Or feed the deer and foxes, which is more accurate!

We love where we live. But thanks for your concern. I'm sure that's important where your population density and growth have compromised waste water management.

I'm curious though as is there really such a thing as not needing to pump out the septic tank, ever? I'm all for it if it's true and according to your exp, it seems like it at least for 30-40 years, but, still, that was not what was intended when your system was built? Just confused is all.

[2000cs]

Septic systems are typically sized/permitted based on number of bedrooms, not bathrooms. The “people load” determines the volume that goes in, not the number of fixtures. So with a system sized for 4 bedrooms but only one typically occupied (as our is), the tank will fill with solids very slowly, and not need frequent pumping.

With good use (don’t put things down that don’t biodegrade, no bleach, no grease, etc), it can be a long time, or never, to need pumping.

I’ve had two houses with septic systems, both for 4 bedrooms, both occupied before us by a couple with occasional visitors, and neither needed pumping when we bought (5 years after last pump).

Bleach is particularly bad. The tank is typically concrete. Bleach will both kill the enzymes that are needed in the tank and it will deteriorate the concrete (especially the baffles in the tank that slow the flow). There are good alternatives, and there are many septic friendly cleaners, detergents, toilet papers, etc.

Normally there is enough bacteria in our septic inputs to not require adding enzymes, but it can help get the tank going and maintain it as noted above. Same manufacturer posted above also has an enzyme pipe cleaner that is very good and will help the septic system as well.

The leach field, where the final liquids disperse, is important. You can plant grass and such on it, and kids can play safely on it, but you should not plant anything with deep roots nor any food garden on it (flowers would be fine I suppose). There is no odor from the system - if you have an odor (I never have), you have a problem.

[spazzyfry123]

Garbage disposal = bedroom count as well. Ex: four bedroom house with a disposal will require a five bedroom septic. Around here at least.

I see most just say they have the four and add the disposal after the fact, though.