[X5-Diesel]

I have a 2013 BMW X5 35D (Diesel) and the EGR cooler recently cracked and will need to be replaced. I understand that this is a common failure on these vehicles and ideally I would like to remove the EGR and cooler completely from the vehicle.

I understand that most owners do a complete delete and remove the DPF as well. I am not ready to do that at this time and would like to keep the DPF for now since it will add quite a bit of additional cost and labor to remove it.

My question is can I remove the EGR valves and EGR cooler and then send my ECU in to have the EGR functions tuned out while still retaining the DPF and SCR systems? Will this cause an issues? Also if this is possible to do should I also have the DEF system tuned out so that I do not need to add DEF fluid anymore?

I live in an area that does not require emission testing so that is not an issue. It seems that removing the EGR will make the vehicle more reliable and also reduce CBU but I am not sure what effect that will have on the DPF and other critical systems.

I am considering purchasing the JR stage 2 tune which will add +70HP +60TQ on stock equipment:

http://www.tunemyeuro.com/bmw-x5-35d...jr-autotuning/

And I assume that I will need to purchase the EGR race pipe as well:

http://www.tunemyeuro.com/eco-billet...5d-and-x5-35d/

Is there anything that I am missing? Any other suggestions?

[Thecastle]

Yes, jr tuning makes a stage “2” tune that only disables the egr and lets you leave the dpf and scr intact. Then you can block the egr, make sure you let them know that you plan to remove the egr with a race pipe i assume.

Anyway there are several folks who have done this. I have been running this exact configuration for over 2 years and probably 30k miles. With no issues attributed to the tune. Other folks have done the same thing.

There were some early bugs in this configuration like the dpf not going through regen cycles that have been fixed.

[apexit4]

If you are considering doing a DPF delete down the line, you should really give more thought to what tune you purchase today. I'm not sure if the JR stage 2 tune allows you to run both configurations (DPF intact and removed), but it if works best with the DPF installed and you decide to remove that down the line, that's an additional $1100 you'll be spending on software (thats assuming JR doesnt have special pricing when upgrading from one stage to another).

Also, a race pipe is not a requirement for any of these tunes. It is my understanding the JR tune just closes the valve on the EGR. I have one of their tunes on my 335D and havent replaced the EGR valve with a race pipe. I do intend on removing it at some point in the future, but I've had no issues keeping the now non functioning EGR cooler and valve still on the car.

[dmanb2b]

Originally Posted by apexit4

If you are considering doing a DPF delete down the line, you should really give more thought to what tune you purchase today. I'm not sure if the JR stage 2 tune allows you to run both configurations (DPF intact and removed), but it if works best with the DPF installed and you decide to remove that down the line, that's an additional $1100 you'll be spending on software (thats assuming JR doesnt have special pricing when upgrading from one stage to another).

Also, a race pipe is not a requirement for any of these tunes. It is my understanding the JR tune just closes the valve on the EGR. I have one of their tunes on my 335D and havent replaced the EGR valve with a race pipe. I do intend on removing it at some point in the future, but I've had no issues keeping the now non functioning EGR cooler and valve still on the car.

FYI, JR only charges you the difference in tune cost if you decide to change down the road. Example st2 with non-race is $550 vs stg2 race is $900, then you pay $350 to change.

Removing the EGR would avoid having to worry about a cracked cooler, but as you say, tuners can adjust the tune for a specific hardware configuration.

OP, you can also remove EGR without a tune, but you would have to plug in the EGR valve and ziptie it to the side to avoid limp mode. You would also show an SES light with this method.

[apexit4]

Originally Posted by dmanb2b

FYI, JR only charges you the difference in tune cost if you decide to change down the road. Example st2 with non-race is $550 vs stg2 race is $900, then you pay $350 to change.

Removing the EGR would avoid having to worry about a cracked cooler, but as you say, tuners can adjust the tune for a specific hardware configuration.

OP, you can also remove EGR without a tune, but you would have to plug in the EGR valve and ziptie it to the side to avoid limp mode. You would also show an SES light with this method.

Thanks for the tune upgrade confirmation, that info really made my day!

[335stoner]

Just delete the egr and cooler and deal with a ses light until you delete.

You will have to wait more time than it is worth for your dde

[Davll]

I have the JR Stage 2.0 with EGR and SCR disabled and DPF active. The setup works great for me, especially as I can't stand the deleted smell.

[Thecastle]

I'll also point out the DPF rarely fails on these cars, and removing the DPF and SCR isn't a big performance boost, maybe 15hp, without other mods.

good to know they also offer an EGR and SCR delete with DPF intact. I plan to leave my DPF intact until it fails probably around 150-170K miles (mine was replaced at 25K). The DOC is a must have unless you love breathing unburnt hydrocarbons.

[RL18]

Originally Posted by Thecastle

I'll also point out the DPF rarely fails on these cars, and removing the DPF and SCR isn't a big performance boost, maybe 15hp, without other mods.

good to know they also offer an EGR and SCR delete with DPF intact. I plan to leave my DPF intact until it fails probably around 150-170K miles (mine was replaced at 25K). The DOC is a must have unless you love breathing unburnt hydrocarbons.

So since I have 15 more hp than you wouldn’t that mean you’d be breathing in the hydrocarbons instead?

[Thecastle]

Originally Posted by RL18

So since I have 15 more hp than you wouldn’t that mean you’d be breathing in the hydrocarbons instead?

;-) Maybe not sure 15HP is enough of difference to overcome driving skill. Having done some track days... The DPF delete/SCR deletes aren't a big upgrade, but hybrid turbos are which do require full deletes. Its actually kind of amazing to me how little of an upgrade a DPF delete is when you look at it you'd think it would really obstruct airflow.

Wonder what my race pipe is worth in terms of HP vs DPF delete.

[dmanb2b]

Originally Posted by Thecastle

The DPF delete/SCR deletes aren't a big upgrade

I respectfully disagree. For example a JR stage 2 non race is 330hp/466ftlb while a stage 2.8 is 373hp/606ftlb, per dyno charts listed on tunemyeuro.com. 40+hp and 140ftlb

[RL18]

Originally Posted by Thecastle

Wonder what my race pipe is worth in terms of HP vs DPF delete.

I think a better question would be how much hp the race pipe is worth with dpf vs without a dpf.. last I checked though there was a pretty good pressure drop after the dpf.

[X5-Diesel]

Thanks for the info. I have decided to purchase the tune and the race pipe. I am taking the EGR and cooler out of the car completely and hopefully this will help with reliability. The DPF filter still has plenty of life left on it and I don't want to remove it right now.

The tuner indicated that I can always upgrade to the next stage tune later if I do remove the DPF and I will only have to pay the difference from the cost of the original tune.


Can't wait to get this car back on the road with the additional 70hp! I have been stuck driving a Prius for a week and it's killing me.

[Thecastle]

Originally Posted by RL18

I think a better question would be how much hp the race pipe is worth with dpf vs without a dpf.. last I checked though there was a pretty good pressure drop after the dpf.

Yeah I’d kind of like to know as well as I’m running the race pipe. Which race pipe along with a intercooler upgrade is required for stage 2.8 to make advertise power levels. Given the difference between 2.5 and 2.8 is 24hp, I’d say the race pipe is probably worth in the ball park of 5-20hp, as it removes an intake restriction and smooths airflow. Most intercooler upgrades don’t add hp, so much as keep you from loosing it on long pulls. Unless the stock has a ton of pressure drop.

[Thecastle]

Originally Posted by dmanb2b

I respectfully disagree. For example a JR stage 2 non race is 330hp/466ftlb while a stage 2.8 is 373hp/606ftlb, per dyno charts listed on tunemyeuro.com. 40+hp and 140ftlb

Yes but likely a large proption of the 24hp gains (2.5 race vs 2.8) are lthe race pipe and intercooler upgrades for 2.8 which requires those additions to make advertised gains. So we’re still at about 15-25hp for a dpf/scr delete and upgraded exhaust (wonder what the exhaust upgrades contribution is). Not saying a dpf delete isn’t worth something, it’s just fairly minor like an ic or race pipe. In fact a race pipe and ic seem to give similar gains to a dpf/scr delete and exhaust upgrade. But at a better bang for the buck.

Also torque numbers while important to diesel owners really aren’t what determines track times, it’s hp under the curve, while diesel cars can be fast, they can’t rev and don’t have big power bands as a consequence. My X5m is way faster than my 335d even though the d has as much torque and less weight then the x5. It’s becasue the x5 has higher volumetric effiecnecy, aka it can rev and has more power under the curve.

[RL18]

Originally Posted by Thecastle

Yeah I’d kind of like to know as well as I’m running the race pipe. Which race pipe along with a intercooler upgrade is required for stage 2.8 to make advertise power levels. Given the difference between 2.5 and 2.8 is 24hp, I’d say the race pipe is probably worth in the ball park of 5-20hp, as it removes an intake restriction and smooths airflow. Most intercooler upgrades don’t add hp, so much as keep you from loosing it on long pulls. Unless the stock has a ton of pressure drop.

I’ll try getting a dyno run before swirl flap and race pipe then after and see how much hp it adds. Although you think a dpf delete doesn’t net a lot of hp gain I’m gonna have to respectfully disagree with you on that one. Dpf delete shouldn’t be done as a single mod and I don’t think it was meant to be. It should be done in conjunction with a full exhaust. A dpf along with a 3” straight pipe definitely makes a difference.. Diesels like free flowing exhaust.

[dmanb2b]

Originally Posted by RL18

Although you think a dpf delete doesn’t net a lot of hp gain I’m gonna have to respectfully disagree with you on that one. Dpf delete shouldn’t be done as a single mod and I don’t think it was meant to be. It should be done in conjunction with a full exhaust. A dpf along with a 3” straight pipe definitely makes a difference.. Diesels like free flowing exhaust.

RL18, this was my point as well. Castle, A 335d with a 2.8, 2.9 or 2+ tune can easily cut a 12.6-12.7 sec 1/4mi or about dead even with a stock e70 x5m. That makes it way faster than your 335d as well and you are running a race pipe. I have no idea how much the race pipe, FMIC or exhaust contribute to the formula on an individual basis, but again, I just don't think categorizing the difference between the two tune types as "minor" is correct.

[robnitro]

2.8 makes more power because it runs higher boost, so it can add fueling compared to 2.5 which is maxed out fueling wise for that close to stock boost.
Comparing 2 non race to 2 race would be more fair, and it's a few hp gain. Both tunes are designed to not make smoke. 2.5 is a bit more fuel than 2 and smokes a bit at wot.

Free flowing exhaust is not needed, the real restriction is from the scr and dpf. Ever see either cut open? It's very tightly packed!


The stock exhaust diameter is not a restriction.
The muffler is not a restriction either unless you go extreme.

[dmanb2b]

Originally Posted by robnitro

Comparing 2 non race to 2 race would be more fair, and it's a few hp gain.

Totally agree, although deletes do allow you to go to highest tune available.

[Thecastle]

Originally Posted by robnitro

2.8 makes more power because it runs higher boost, so it can add fueling compared to 2.5 which is maxed out fueling wise for that close to stock boost.
Comparing 2 non race to 2 race would be more fair, and it's a few hp gain. Both tunes are designed to not make smoke. 2.5 is a bit more fuel than 2 and smokes a bit at wot.

Free flowing exhaust is not needed, the real restriction is from the scr and dpf. Ever see either cut open? It's very tightly packed!


The stock exhaust diameter is not a restriction.
The muffler is not a restriction either unless you go extreme.

Your right. Technically we remove 3 catalysts the DOC, DPF and SCR when going stage 2.5/2 race. Yeah I agree the DPF is tightly packed which is why it surprises me it isn't as much of a restriction as it is. It hard to say what the DPFs removal actually contributes to hp when were removing 3 cats and replacing the exhaust with a better flowing unit. I suspect the DOC isn't a big deal, be nice if there was a high flow DPF, as an option for folks who don't want smoke but big power.

I suspect that at 2.5/2.8 the turbos are operating outside their efficiency range so they begin to just blow a lot more heat for slightly more air. Which eventaully lowers MAF as the denisty of the air decreases with heat. The 2.8 mods of adding a bigger intercooler which allows you to handle a little more heat from the turbos when running outside their efficiency range and removing obstructions (EGR) is what allows it flow more air. I suspect better boost pipes, and intake will reduce turbo heating and restrictions as well and give a few more hp on any tuned car.

[RL18]

I’m still not convinced that removing my dpf was a bad idea...

[Thecastle]

Originally Posted by RL18

I’m still not convinced that removing my dpf was a bad idea...

I’m not implying that dpf removal is a bad idea depending on your goals. Appologies if it comes across that way. My point i made poorly was removing the dpf yeilds minimal additional hp gains after the car is tuned for a lot of cost. Removal is absolutely necessary for bigger power upgrades down the road like turbo upgrades. However, this modification has potential downsides (depending on perspective) of noise, smell, less mechanics know how to work on the car, smoke, and the potential of harder to resell without removing the mods..

The big thing is bang for the buck for me, on dpf removal (or any cat)
Example a tune is 599 (stage 2) and gets us +70hp from jr. but upgrading to the 2.5 race costs $300 for the tune upgrade say 499 for a down pipe, maybe 950 for the scr delete (if not gutting in all cases), then let’s ball park and say 600 in labor and dde shipping for the exhaust upgrades... so the 15 extra hp cost $2349 ish or about $156 per hp. Vs just the tune (699 with shipping) or about $10 per hp. So adding a few additional hp from deletes costs a factor of 15x more per hp than just tuning.

I’m not saying it’s a mod to avoid, it’s necessry when it fails or you want to get every last hp our of the car, or you like the sound and or smell of a deleted car. I generally always go big turbo before messing with the exhaust or I just stay tuned depending on the costs for a particular platform. Tuned or big turbo tends to be the sweet spots for hp per $.