[pentaxis]

I just went in to the dealer yesterday to get my i-drive updated, and came back today to find that the dealer updated everything in the car wiping my original 02/2007 software. I am now getting lag until about 2500 or so rpm.

I have read that there is a wastegate retrofit option that the tech can enable on some newer software, but don't know if this applies to 2.37+. If it doesn't, i feel kinda screwed. That is unless a tune can fix it.

Since some of the tunes can control wastegate duty cycle directly, will they fix the lag that has been introduced? I miss being at low rpm and just punching the gas and taking off.

Cheers,

-Paul

[OpenFlash]

Yes. Procede is currently the only piggyback that will do exactly what you are asking.

[mkiv]

yups!

[pentaxis]

Well thats good news at least.

Do you guys know if the wastegate retrofit option is still available to restore prior wastegate activity on newer software?

[BzzzBom]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Yes. Procede is currently the only piggyback that will do exactly what you are asking.

Correct -- but GIAC's flash is based on the original N54 software and is very smooth.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by BzzzBom

Correct -- but GIAC's flash is based on the original N54 software and is very smooth.

And considerably slower/less responsive.

[cn555ic]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

And considerably slower/less responsive.

Shiv we miss you! Please go home and do what you do best! Stop vacationing and get the N55 home already! Nitrous

[mkiv]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

And considerably slower/less responsive.

shiv when will you back from vacation? lol
i sent you some datalogs.

[uberschnell]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

And considerably slower/less responsive.

not true for stage 2

[bulldog_yyc]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Yes. Procede is currently the only piggyback that will do exactly what you are asking.

shiv, why does the jb3 not do this? or in other words, what is the procede doing differently w/ respect to this? Please be specific, cheers

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by turkish335

shiv, why does the jb3 not do this? or in other words, what is the procede doing differently w/ respect to this? Please be specific, cheers

The Jb3, like procede v1,2 and 3 applies offsets to DME boost target and DME boost control duty cycle. This means that it only makes additive/subtractive adjustments to the DME's outputs. So if any DME output/target changes after a software update, the tune will also suffer a relative change. You can try to mask some of this by applying an archaic "lagfix" algorithm which basically sets a minimum DC output at low throttle angles. But that will only have an effect below the boost threshold (below ~25% applied throttle).

Procede v4 avoids all this nonsense by having absolute control over boost DC output and boost target. It is no longer a "piggyback" in this respect. In fact, the DME is simply along for the ride. It is fully passive with respect to boost control. So this means that no matter what software version is in the DME, a Procede tuned car will drive the same. This was one of the primary reasons we pushed towards CAN integration last year. Without it, we'd be in the same boat as the other tuners.

Shiv

[adrian@vishnu]

JB3 hardware is incapable of direct control of the wastegates (since they can only increase the duty cycle of the factory solenoid and not reduce it). This is because they T onto the factory wiring and add to the signal already there, where the Procede disconnects the DME from the solenoids and takes full control of the solenoid. There is also some fundamental differences in the algorithms used for boost control that are made more difficult without the CAN logging of the Target Boost from the DME.

IMHO this is the fundamental difference between these tunes at the moment. The benefits in the Procede method are quicker and more accurate boost control and more flexibility in boost setpoints as well as elimination of the DME throttle boost control where the DME uses the throttle to cleanup any boost error resulting from less than perfect control of the wastegates. The end result is a more throttle responsive engine with no slow throttle induced delays in response.

Some people may claim there are negatives to the Procede method in safety etc. But there has been no evidence of this, and it is all really just theories presented by the competition that are using different approaches.

Adrian

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by MteK

not true for stage 2

Actually, I was referring to Stg 2. It suffers from the same limitations as the stock DME (boost target error, thorttle closure/boost discharge between shifts, slow PID logic, etc,.) Not to mention the inability to adapt to different octane conditions. The latter worth 30-50whp when running high octane race gas.

shiv

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by mkiv

shiv when will you back from vacation? lol
i sent you some datalogs.

Just got in to Colorado an hour ago! 1900 miles so far. 1500 miles to go The new 135 w/DCT is great! Launch control is pretty cool. Not quite a match for v4's 6AT launch control which actually builds boost at a standstill. But pretty cool nonetheless. The shift speed is ridiculous though!

Shiv

[supracg]

I can vouch for the PROcede (recently got it about a week ago), the stock software is not predictably responsive..you get a lot of torque early in throttle load (say 50%) and then from 50 to 100 you get very little extra torque, with the PROcede every throttle blade position syncs very well with more power..its now predictable/responsive at all throttle blade positions

[AltecBX]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Just got in to Colorado an hour ago! 1900 miles so far. 1500 miles to go The new 135 w/DCT is great! Launch control is pretty cool. Not quite a match for v4's 6AT launch control which actually builds boost at a standstill. But pretty cool nonetheless. The shift speed is ridiculous though!

Shiv

Is the 135i DCT already running the Procede tune?
How does the car feel in different elevation?

[AltecBX]

Originally Posted by adrian@vishnu

JB3 hardware is incapable of direct control of the wastegates (since they can only increase the duty cycle of the factory solenoid and not reduce it). This is because they T onto the factory wiring and add to the signal already there, where the Procede disconnects the DME from the solenoids and takes full control of the solenoid. There is also some fundamental differences in the algorithms used for boost control that are made more difficult without the CAN logging of the Target Boost from the DME.

IMHO this is the fundamental difference between these tunes at the moment. The benefits in the Procede method are quicker and more accurate boost control and more flexibility in boost setpoints as well as elimination of the DME throttle boost control where the DME uses the throttle to cleanup any boost error resulting from less than perfect control of the wastegates. The end result is a more throttle responsive engine with no slow throttle induced delays in response.

Some people may claim there are negatives to the Procede method in safety etc. But there has been no evidence of this, and it is all really just theories presented by the competition that are using different approaches.

Adrian

So how can the Procede get any better or improve in what was mentioned above in respect to our car?

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by pentaxis

I just went in to the dealer yesterday to get my i-drive updated, and came back today to find that the dealer updated everything in the car wiping my original 02/2007 software. I am now getting lag until about 2500 or so rpm.

I have read that there is a wastegate retrofit option that the tech can enable on some newer software, but don't know if this applies to 2.37+. If it doesn't, i feel kinda screwed. That is unless a tune can fix it.

Since some of the tunes can control wastegate duty cycle directly, will they fix the lag that has been introduced? I miss being at low rpm and just punching the gas and taking off.

Cheers,

-Paul

No problem with the JB3. The lagfix function closes the wastegates during cruise regardless of your DME software.

Mike

[Alpina_B3_Lux]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Actually, I was referring to Stg 2. It suffers from the same limitations as the stock DME (boost target error, thorttle closure/boost discharge between shifts, slow PID logic, etc,.) Not to mention the inability to adapt to different octane conditions. The latter worth 30-50whp when running high octane race gas.

shiv

That is why GIAC has completely rewritten the boost control code of the DME. And it can also - if not, admittedly, to the extent of the Procede or JB3 - adapt to different octane conditions. There will also be a mapswitcher available within short, with which you can change between different maps, octane related and other - which will bring it closer to the additional flexibility of a piggyback in this respect.

I've driven my 335i in stock form, with a first flash (Evotech), JB3 and now GIAC stage 2 and can confidently say that the responsiveness of the GIAC tune is far, far superior to all the others.

I have not tested the Procede, though, so take my comments with a grain of salt.

Alpina_B3_Lux

[scottp999]

Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux

That is why GIAC has completely rewritten the boost control code of the DME. And it can also - if not, admittedly, to the extent of the Procede or JB3 - adapt to different octane conditions. There will also be a mapswitcher available within short, with which you can change between different maps, octane related and other - which will bring it closer to the additional flexibility of a piggyback in this respect.

I've driven my 335i in stock form, with a first flash (Evotech), JB3 and now GIAC stage 2 and can confidently say that the responsiveness of the GIAC tune is far, far superior to all the others.

I have not tested the Procede, though, so take my comments with a grain of salt.

Alpina_B3_Lux

1) A hand held switcher that can hold enough maps as you add modifications, and also being able to adjust to meth and/or race gas will be a game changer.

2) There were some Boost oscillation issues mentioned before. If those are resolved that helps to.

I think there is a price to pay for being late, but there are lots of new BMW turbos coming off the line every day.

[vasillalov]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Not to mention the inability to adapt to different octane conditions. The latter worth 30-50whp when running high octane race gas.

shiv

Yes, but most GIAC owners will purchase multiple maps for different octane ratings which can be easily switched with a simple push of a button!

GIAC makes maps for 91, 93, 95 and 98 octane fuels. Also, valet mode maps which actually limit the RPMS of the engine to 2500 and also race maps.

Where is Procede's valet mode where engine rpms are restricted to 2,500 so that the valet boy cannot abuse your engine?

[bulldog_yyc]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

No problem with the JB3. The lagfix function closes the wastegates during cruise regardless of your DME software.

Mike

I hate to keep asking but if the waste gates are closed by the DME software < 2500RPM or so, how does the jb3 lagfix during low throttle help with lag one would get in that range during WOT? In other words, jb3 forces the WG closed during low throttle/cruise/stop; once the throttle past the threshold is applied, then the DME automatically keeps them open until >2500 RPM; which is the exact lag I have been describing for months now............or am I totally misunderstanding the operations of the factory/JB3 WG logic?