[danniexi]

Originally Posted by richpike

How about decreasing weight versus making more power? Imagine how incredible these cars would be with 500HP and 3,100lbs versus 3,500. What are the best/easiest/least expensive places to drop weight?

Wheels/Tires
Exhaust
Seats
Rotors
Body panels

Not sure if it is even possible to get our cars down to 3,100lbs, but if you figure our power to weight ratio at 3,500lbs/500HP is 7lbs per HP, at 3,100lbs we'd be 6.2lbs per HP, which would be around 560HP at 3,500lbs, so you'll have gained the equivalent of 60HP plus all the benefits of reduced weight on handling/braking.

OP - sorry if this wasn't the direction you were thinking.

-Rich

That's pretty much up to the individual owner's discretion.

I would LOVE to do some weight reduction, but the practicality and financial reasons don't permit me to do so. My 335xi is a pig compared to some other cars here, but it's my daily car as well, so the comfort features are nice to have; those benefits outweigh the performance. In terms of finance, i believe it's more cost effective to do power mods rather than weight reduction. There are many products and methods to can do to get your car on a diet, but it'll be a very large investment. There are many threads in the other sub-forums that go over this.

[CHECKERED]

Originally Posted by richpike

How about decreasing weight versus making more power? Imagine how incredible these cars would be with 500HP and 3,100lbs versus 3,500. What are the best/easiest/least expensive places to drop weight?

Wheels/Tires
Exhaust
Seats
Rotors
Body panels

Not sure if it is even possible to get our cars down to 3,100lbs, but if you figure our power to weight ratio at 3,500lbs/500HP is 7lbs per HP, at 3,100lbs we'd be 6.2lbs per HP, which would be around 560HP at 3,500lbs, so you'll have gained the equivalent of 60HP plus all the benefits of reduced weight on handling/braking.

OP - sorry if this wasn't the direction you were thinking.

-Rich

Rich,
400 lb drop is possible I have done it on other cars but to get there you will have to remove all seats with seat belts/interior panels/sound insulation/radio/speakers/air bags/ you will be down to one seat and a racing steering wheel, not very practical.

So without sacrificing drivability: lighter wheels, lightweight rotors, CF hood and trunk, light weight battery, CF racing seat, you’ll spend 10K to drop 150lb
-Alex

[richpike]

Originally Posted by CHECKERED

Rich,
400 lb drop is possible I have done it on other cars but to get there you will have to remove all seats with seat belts/interior panels/sound insulation/radio/speakers/air bags/ you will be down to one seat and a racing steering wheel, not very practical.

So without sacrificing drivability: lighter wheels, lightweight rotors, CF hood and trunk, light weight battery, CF racing seat, you’ll spend 10K to drop 150lb
-Alex

Definitely doesn't seem very practical

But I do believe unsprung mass is "worth" more than sprung mass. So if you could save 8lb per wheel/tire/rotor, that would be like saving almost 200lbs elsewhere. You could probably drop 20lbs in the exhaust, 20lbs in the battery, 20lbs in panels and be up to roughly 260lbs of "equivalent" weight reduction, but I agree, probably not the best bang for the buck.

-Rich

[saxon]

i think the biggest things still need to be addressed before adding power

like reliable tunes, NO MISFIRES, and then after turbos better cams (which cant be too expensive imo ) and intake manifold

[benzy89]

Originally Posted by saxon

i think the biggest things still need to be addressed before adding power

like reliable tunes, NO MISFIRES, and then after turbos better cams (which cant be too expensive imo ) and intake manifold

The tunes are as reliable as ever, you just need to do your part as the owner & maintain the car (replace spark plugs/ignition coils at the appropriate interval, change your oil every 10k, etc etc).

Vargas is working on a real turbo upgrade, but cams are way off in the future once we max out everything else (which is why I believe the Fueling System is the next big thing to see an upgrade).

[Transport3r]

Originally Posted by benzy89

which is why I believe the Fueling System is the next big thing to see an upgrade.

This guy... listen to him.
I'm extremely excited about HPF's intake manifold with secondary fuel injection.
Link: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12968581
This will take care of our fueling issues and carbon deposit issues at the same time. I think the first tuner to integrate a controller for this kind of system into their piggyback will make bank on it. This fueling system, a set of Vargas Stage 3's and we'll be cracking rods in no time!

[Ænema]

Originally Posted by Transport3r

This guy... listen to him.
I'm extremely excited about HPF's intake manifold with secondary fuel injection.
Link: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12968581
This will take care of our fueling issues and carbon deposit issues at the same time. I think the first tuner to integrate a controller for this kind of system into their piggyback will make bank on it. This fueling system, a set of Vargas Stage 3's and we'll be cracking rods in no time!

ProEFI already has a system up and running. Intake manifold+secondary port injectors with a full stand alone engine management system(none of that piggyback signal biasing BS.) I have A LOT more confidence in ProEFI than HPF.

[Eric335]

Originally Posted by benzy89

The tunes are as reliable as ever, you just need to do your part as the owner & maintain the car (replace spark plugs/ignition coils at the appropriate interval, change your oil every 10k, etc etc).

Vargas is working on a real turbo upgrade, but cams are way off in the future once we max out everything else (which is why I believe the Fueling System is the next big thing to see an upgrade).

this^^^

Im still shocked nobody has tried their hand at an upgraded HPFP. I mean, id pay $500 and install it myself if it meant long-term reliable HPFPs. Im sure im not alone too.

But as Shiv has said, we are currently limited by the fuel system. HPF has their hand in secondary fuel injection now, so we will have to wait and see!

[WDBi]

yeah im not a fan at all of the hpf manifold. Making this car efi is like making a new ls motor carb'd. Direct injection is a great system and can make good power if you just take time and look into it. I am pretty excited for the proefi if it can control everything which is the reason its being made then it will be awesome.

100% e85, full vanos control, anything you could dream of can be done

[Ænema]

Keep in mind, the engine as a whole needs to be taken into consideration.

The intake plenum, intake runners, cylinder head ports(flow and velocity), valves, cams(timing and phasing), turbo manifold and turbo all have to work together to make all the money and effort worth it.

Literally, the N54 is designed around low-mid range torque. Eventually we're going to get to the point where engine mods will be required to make (effective)use of bigger turbos and more boost.

[King mode]

Originally Posted by CHECKERED

Will,
You will be very disappointed by how little gain you will get on cams and headwork on a N54
If this was a big displacement N/A V8 then yes cams/heads w/bigger values and you are up 100hp. A few blots-ons: intake-throttle body-Intake Manifold-headers you are up another 50-70hp

On a small displacement turbo motor, the formula is simple, lowest possible restriction on the exhaust side, most efficient intercooler (maybe even CO2 IC chiller) and charge piping + lots and lots of octane.

Don’t get me wrong you will see some gains with headwork, but is 5K worth 30hp?

With a gt3076 bolted to a 1.8t, guys see 100awhp with integrated engineering street/strip cams over stock cams.

[WDBi]

Originally Posted by King mode

With a gt3076 bolted to a 1.8t, guys see 100awhp with integrated engineering street/strip cams over stock cams.

Although this is true people will flame you for comparing platforms. But i agree with you cams are cams they make power

[Transport3r]

Originally Posted by nema

ProEFI already has a system up and running. Intake manifold+secondary port injectors with a full stand alone engine management system(none of that piggyback signal biasing BS.) I have A LOT more confidence in ProEFI than HPF.

really? when are they looking at releasing it? Do they have any info on it somewhere? I'm liking the idea of a standalone, wonder how they keep the DME happy.

[135Hoser]

Upgraded HPFP? Lol, not any time soon. Might start seeing twin HPFPs but that's debatable.
Cams aren't going to be cheap, at all.

Boring the 3L to 3.2L or something is a worthwhile proposition, however it is not a cost effective solution.

is the HPF manifold meant to take over injection entirely, or just to supplement?

The factory CR is pretty insane, and gives this car it's down low grunt, and gives it the ability to spool the turbos so quickly. iirc it's 11.3:1, that w/ twin turbo, on a production vehicle 10 years ago was unheard of.

Full standalone? Maybe, but on stock parts, I don't see much benefit to that.

I think upgraded twins, or even larger single turbos will be the way to go on this platform for at least another couple of years. 600+rwhp hell even 500+ rwhp is nothing to be ashamed of, and that goal can be reached very realistically, on PUMP, on a factory 3L.

Want stupid power? go with a turbo/stupercharged E46, or do like I did, and go nuts with a 900+awhp r35 gt-r.

I don't think some people understand how awesome the n54 is, and how few, if any, concessions they need to make to enjoy 400+whp. No heavy clutch, no loping idle, no having your powerband move 400+ rpm to the right, no waiting till 4k for your turboz to spool. none of that.

As is, FBO+Meth, or single turbo + meth, gives you an insanely FUN car to enjoy, with few if any complaints and a disgustingly wide powerband. I applaud the efforts of Vishnu, Vargas, and others for their work on single and twin turbo kits. These will only get better in the future.

just my $0.02.

[Ænema]

Originally Posted by Transport3r

really? when are they looking at releasing it? Do they have any info on it somewhere? I'm liking the idea of a standalone, wonder how they keep the DME happy.

E90 won't let me directly you to the site because it is a banned site, and if I PM it to you I will probably be banned... however, here are the Google search results for "proefi n54", just click the second search result.

[Ænema]

Originally Posted by 135Hoser

Upgraded HPFP? Lol, not any time soon. Might start seeing twin HPFPs but that's debatable.
Cams aren't going to be cheap, at all.

Boring the 3L to 3.2L or something is a worthwhile proposition, however it is not a cost effective solution.

is the HPF manifold meant to take over injection entirely, or just to supplement?

The factory CR is pretty insane, and gives this car it's down low grunt, and gives it the ability to spool the turbos so quickly. iirc it's 11.3:1, that w/ twin turbo, on a production vehicle 10 years ago was unheard of.

Full standalone? Maybe, but on stock parts, I don't see much benefit to that.

I think upgraded twins, or even larger single turbos will be the way to go on this platform for at least another couple of years. 600+rwhp hell even 500+ rwhp is nothing to be ashamed of, and that goal can be reached very realistically, on PUMP, on a factory 3L.

Want stupid power? go with a turbo/stupercharged E46, or do like I did, and go nuts with a 900+awhp r35 gt-r.

I don't think some people understand how awesome the n54 is, and how few, if any, concessions they need to make to enjoy 400+whp. No heavy clutch, no loping idle, no having your powerband move 400+ rpm to the right, no waiting till 4k for your turboz to spool. none of that.

As is, FBO+Meth, or single turbo + meth, gives you an insanely FUN car to enjoy, with few if any complaints and a disgustingly wide powerband. I applaud the efforts of Vishnu, Vargas, and others for their work on single and twin turbo kits. These will only get better in the future.

just my $0.02.

Factory CR is 10.1:1 I believe. But yeah, I agree with you 100%. However, there is a always going to be guys that always "gotta have more" haha

[Transport3r]

Originally Posted by Ænema

E90 won't let me directly you to the site because it is a banned site, and if I PM it to you I will probably be banned... however, here are the Google search results for "proefi n54", just click the second search result.

That's great news! I always thought *********** had a great amount of information on it. Too bad we cannot share that information on here...

[King mode]

Originally Posted by Will@StageX

Although this is true people will flame you for comparing platforms. But i agree with you cams are cams they make power

Right, I was just saying that cams can make big power on small displacement FI engines, not just big v8's. It doesn't matter though as we are years away from anyone testing different cams in the n54. Hell, we don't even have a single person with a built n54.

[benzy89]

Originally Posted by Transport3r

really? when are they looking at releasing it? Do they have any info on it somewhere? I'm liking the idea of a standalone, wonder how they keep the DME happy.

ProEFI is still re-writing the cam timing tables; the car went into Limp Mode when they went to dyno it. Hopefully it'll be finished up by April & ready to hit the streets once all the snow is gone