[terryd5150]

Originally Posted by csu87

I believe the original was for a turbo xs intercooler, 24x10x3.5, and a stock genesis coupe turbo, ~380cfm @ 20 psi. Pretty big intercooler for a smaller turbo system, but once you put on a bigger turbo, it performed well.

It was a while ago so I'm not 100% sure, but for the few years i was apart of that scene, threads like this popped up almost monthly. Yes a cx racing intercooler will give you some decent results, but that is because almost anything is better than a stock intercooler. But for best results, a well designed intercooler with good fin density will work better.

For this platform, i don't think anyone has done any testing as to how much better exactly and if it's worth it. Maybe something I will test in the future.

That context makes a little more sense; I was suspecting an off-boost condition (like idle).

I think it's an excellent example proving that the intercooler needs to be matched to the air flow/turbo size of the application - more is obviously not better (once you've exceeded the system's capacity to generate air flow).

Fin density will help overcome some aspects of IC inefficiency (like length); I'm not sure how well it can compensate for depth. As lcvette mentioned, depth only provides air flow, it's a less efficient design when it comes to cooling.

Here's a quick, easy read that sums lcvette's statements into layman's terms for those without a technical degree:

http://www.superstreetonline.com/how...p-intercooler/

Cheers for the solid technical discussion!

[Chris@BoostConcepts]

Originally Posted by csu87

I believe the original was for a turbo xs intercooler, 24x10x3.5, and a stock genesis coupe turbo, ~380cfm @ 20 psi. Pretty big intercooler for a smaller turbo system, but once you put on a bigger turbo, it performed well.

It was a while ago so I'm not 100% sure, but for the few years i was apart of that scene, threads like this popped up almost monthly. Yes a cx racing intercooler will give you some decent results, but that is because almost anything is better than a stock intercooler. But for best results, a well designed intercooler with good fin density will work better.

For this platform, i don't think anyone has done any testing as to how much better exactly and if it's worth it. Maybe something I will test in the future.

That is correct, when you increase the fin density you effectively increase surface area. My point is that you can increase surface area with higher fin density which increases heat transfer, but if your frontal area is small you limit cooling airflow. And with limited airflow and a deep core the available cooling air is decreased so significantly that the saturation point of the core is compromised. The saturation point starts earlier near the back of the core because the cooling airflow has already absorbed heat from the front of the core. As the temperature Delta narrows between the cooling airflow and high density external fins, the heat transfer efficiency plummets.

So in essence you must choose the lesser of two evils because to my knowledge there is not a best option currently. On one hand you have more uniform heat transfer from the cooking air but lower heat transfer from the charge air due to lower fin density, on the other you have the opposite.

The win goes to the CXRacing Intercooler because it offsets its low fin density with increased cooling airflow and more uniform surface area exposure to ambient airflow. This increases the efficiency by creating a much higher average Delta between total core surface area temperature and cooling airflow mass temperature.

So again, Tall and thin with high fin density is the most efficient core, and end tank design to maximize uniform airflow for Increased efficiency.

I have some 18x12x3" cores in stock, I also have a 18x12x4 in stock.. For the sake of this thread I will design and fabricate a prototype intercooler with the best of the best fin density and core size and shape along with custom fabricated end tanks. And I will run simulations on it and share the results along with the analysis criteria for review. Will take me a while as I have a full plate currently but I had planned on doing this anyhow to build my own intercooler for max efficiency.

Chris

[marketmaster]

Originally Posted by lcvette

That is correct, when you increase the fin density you effectively increase surface area. My point is that you can increase surface area with higher fin density which increases heat transfer, but if your frontal area is small you limit cooling airflow. And with limited airflow and a deep core the available cooling air is decreased so significantly that the saturation point of the core is compromised. The saturation point starts earlier near the back of the core because the cooling airflow has already absorbed heat from the front of the core. As the temperature Delta narrows between the cooling airflow and high density external fins, the heat transfer efficiency plummets.

So in essence you must choose the lesser of two evils because to my knowledge there is not a best option currently. On one hand you have more uniform heat transfer from the cooking air but lower heat transfer from the charge air due to lower fin density, on the other you have the opposite.

The win goes to the CXRacing Intercooler because it offsets its low fin density with increased cooling airflow and more uniform surface area exposure to ambient airflow. This increases the efficiency by creating a much higher average Delta between total core surface area temperature and cooling airflow mass temperature.

So again, Tall and thin with high fin density is the most efficient core, and end tank design to maximize uniform airflow for Increased efficiency.

I have some 18x12x3" cores in stock, I also have a 18x12x4 in stock.. For the sake of this thread I will design and fabricate a prototype intercooler with the best of the best fin density and core size and shape along with custom fabricated end tanks. And I will run simulations on it and share the results along with the analysis criteria for review. Will take me a while as I have a full plate currently but I had planned on doing this anyhow to build my own intercooler for max efficiency.

Chris

Chris,
Your plate is like a buffet. it just keeps getting loaded and loaded . Would love to see an intercooler from you and also that DIY for the fuel pump

[terryd5150]

Fuel pump DIY?

As in Walbro 450?

[e92_boost]

Originally Posted by lcvette

That is correct, when you increase the fin density you effectively increase surface area. My point is that you can increase surface area with higher fin density which increases heat transfer, but if your frontal area is small you limit cooling airflow. And with limited airflow and a deep core the available cooling air is decreased so significantly that the saturation point of the core is compromised. The saturation point starts earlier near the back of the core because the cooling airflow has already absorbed heat from the front of the core. As the temperature Delta narrows between the cooling airflow and high density external fins, the heat transfer efficiency plummets.

So in essence you must choose the lesser of two evils because to my knowledge there is not a best option currently. On one hand you have more uniform heat transfer from the cooking air but lower heat transfer from the charge air due to lower fin density, on the other you have the opposite.

The win goes to the CXRacing Intercooler because it offsets its low fin density with increased cooling airflow and more uniform surface area exposure to ambient airflow. This increases the efficiency by creating a much higher average Delta between total core surface area temperature and cooling airflow mass temperature.

So again, Tall and thin with high fin density is the most efficient core, and end tank design to maximize uniform airflow for Increased efficiency.

I have some 18x12x3" cores in stock, I also have a 18x12x4 in stock.. For the sake of this thread I will design and fabricate a prototype intercooler with the best of the best fin density and core size and shape along with custom fabricated end tanks. And I will run simulations on it and share the results along with the analysis criteria for review. Will take me a while as I have a full plate currently but I had planned on doing this anyhow to build my own intercooler for max efficiency.

Chris

That would be awesome would you recommend the 3.5 or the 4' V-Mount IC because I'll be ordering one soon and do this at my cousins shop when I get back cause I'll be going RB from there a single turbo when I get bored with the RB and Port injection lol.

And yes it would be awesome if someone does a DIY on the LPFP instead of paying 400 bucks for something that costs less then 100 bucks lol. (I already have the stage 2 but I wouldn't mind upgrading to the stage 3)

[Chris@BoostConcepts]

Well, let me see what I come up with once I complete the models and I will list hard data to support your decision making process. Or possibly a new design completely that is just better all together then what's on the current market.

As for the fuel pump.... I will be reporting on that soon. It has morphed from a DIY to something more but I am not comfortable going into any detail beyond that at this time.

[e92_boost]

Originally Posted by lcvette

Well, let me see what I come up with once I complete the models and I will list hard data to support your decision making process. Or possibly a new design completely that is just better all together then what's on the current market.

As for the fuel pump.... I will be reporting on that soon. It has morphed from a DIY to something more but I am not comfortable going into any detail beyond that at this time.

Sweet, thank you! Will the info for the IC be ready by September?

[Chris@BoostConcepts]

I would hope so, was thinking more like this coming week

[e92_boost]

Originally Posted by lcvette

I would hope so, was thinking more like this coming week

Thanks so much

[jtswole]

Originally Posted by amr_e90

If you don't mind molesting your fan shroud and finding couplers that work then cx is good I have it and it all cost me around 200/215 all set and done , if you want a direct replacement any of the good name brands are fine .

Can you post the extra pieces you had to buy? Which couplers you needed to install?

[Deejayabap]

Originally Posted by jtswole

Can you post the extra pieces you had to buy? Which couplers you needed to install?

Just did my CX last weekend just need to shave plastic everywhere to make it fit flush lol

[Deejayabap]

Originally Posted by jtswole

Can you post the extra pieces you had to buy? Which couplers you needed to install?

Bought 2.5-3.0 inch couplings unfortunately the stock pipes don't reach with the intercooler in place I'm buying piping Thursday tho and I'll post up what I have

[abhishriv]

the CX is nice. i have one installed on my car but make sure either you or your mechanic is able to fabricate a bracket for it. also a lot of trimming required for the shroud. but in the end it look aggressive as hell and i find it keeps my IAT lower.

if you want a quick install get one of the other vendor proven FMIC, you cant go wrong with those either. a lot of people on here will bicker about one FMIC being better than the other but for most cars on here that are daily driven and tuned any of them will be fine! Just pick one that fits your needs and budget and go for it.

[e92_boost]

Originally Posted by abhishriv

the CX is nice. i have one installed on my car but make sure either you or your mechanic is able to fabricate a bracket for it. also a lot of trimming required for the shroud. but in the end it look aggressive as hell and i find it keeps my IAT lower.

if you want a quick install get one of the other vendor proven FMIC, you cant go wrong with those either. a lot of people on here will bicker about one FMIC being better than the other but for most cars on here that are daily driven and tuned any of them will be fine! Just pick one that fits your needs and budget and go for it.

I just went and ordered the 7" VRSF when I upgrade my Turbos I'll be doing the CXR Intercooler

[HeavyMetalRocker]

Originally Posted by e92_boost

Hey guys, looking to upgrade intercoolers, I want to order the CXRacing Intercooler it's the whole set up for 499. By the time I get back from vacation I'll be upgrading turbos + inlets also so would this benefit me more or should I just get the VRSF 7' Intercooler.

Anyone with personal experience on the CXRacing? The posts I've read people love it weather it was a 3 series or 1 series.

What everyone else is saying aside, I have a CxRacing FMIC. I did all of the cold and hot side piping myself. I ordered everything from the CxRacing website to avoid any possible ebay scams. I got universal piping that I cut and used the appropriate couplers to connect everything. All in all, it was probably the hardest thing I've done on my car downpipes and turbos included. It requires some major modifications and some thin arms to do some handy work! Now, the thing freaking performs! I'm in Texas, multiple post run IATs in the low 120's when I was running upgraded RBs @20psi with an e85 blend no meth. That was just a few weeks ago when temps were well into the 90s. Anyone can trash talk the quality, the fin design, the spacing, or whatever else... the thing does the job, and it does it well! I'm getting the Motiv 750 kit here in a few weeks so it will be interesting to see if things change. They advertise a 5psi drop at 35psi so that's not too great but I'll cross that bridge when I get there. I haven't been able to find too much pressure drop data on other brands so I may custom order a Spearco FMIC and see where that gets me! I'm all about the frontal surface area, not depth!

[Tiago@VRSF]

Originally Posted by e92_boost

I just went and ordered the 7" VRSF when I upgrade my Turbos I'll be doing the CXR Intercooler

Our 7" intercooler is currently featured on the worlds highest HP 335i @ somewhere around 860whp. You won't need to upgrade

[e92_boost]

Originally Posted by Tiago@VRSF

Our 7" intercooler is currently featured on the worlds highest HP 335i @ somewhere around 860whp. You won't need to upgrade

Yes I seen that haha shipping was done ASAP by Tiago I was surprised haha my brother receives it tomorrow to install it hopefully he sends me pics