[justpete]

And without a roll cage or roll bar.

With or without Quick Fit Pro harnesses.

And anybody get told they can't run this way in an HPDE?

[feuer]

Fixed back seats? You mean seats that does not fold down? If yes, then I'm running like that and nobody had even asked me about the rear seats. I mean they have but why I do not remove then for weight saving. I do not have rollcage either.

[justpete]

Originally Posted by feuer

Fixed back seats? You mean seats that does not fold down? If yes, then I'm running like that and nobody had even asked me about the rear seats. I mean they have but why I do not remove then for weight saving. I do not have rollcage either.

Yeah, like race shells. Some seem to think a roll bar or cage is required to use them as they think stock seats are supposed to fold in a rollover. But stock seats aren't meant to do that. So theoretically fixed back race shells used in place of stock seats should be ok to use in conjunction with the three point belts. I get conflicting opinions at HPDEs/trackdays. Curious if anyone does this routinely?

[feuer]

Many in the HPDEs/trackdays organization just do now. I have been asked few times whether I have removed the spare tire and then to show them that newer bmw's do not come with one. So I would not be surprised if they do not know anything about rear seats either.

[justpete]

Originally Posted by feuer

Many in the HPDEs/trackdays organization just do now. I have been asked few times whether I have removed the spare tire and then to show them that newer bmw's do not come with one. So I would not be surprised if they do not know anything about rear seats either.

Haven't run without the rear seats yet, was intending to keep them after installing race shells since the interior would be intact. I'm guessing the people who don't think it's allowed at the HPDEs are thinking the Quick Fit Pro harness is the problem, dunno.

At a driving school not too long ago my instructor wouldn't use the Quick Fit Pro harness without a roll cage, that was really weird. And he even knew the difference between Quick Fit Pro and non-streetable harnesses.

[feuer]

Probably because "normal/regular" harness is attached to the roll cage at high point even with the height of the drivers shoulders to prevent lower back injury. I assume your harness is designed for E90 and attaches on lower seat level into the rear seat seatbelt buckles. If yes then there is special section build in the belt that will tear and extending to prevent lower back injury.

[justpete]

Originally Posted by feuer

Probably because "normal/regular" harness is attached to the roll cage at high point even with the height of the drivers shoulders to prevent lower back injury. I assume your harness is designed for E90 and attaches on lower seat level into the rear seat seatbelt buckles. If yes then there is special section build in the belt that will tear and extending to prevent lower back injury.

Yes, exactly, that's what Quick Fit Pro harnesses are designed to do. So theoretically it wouldn't matter if the seat was stock or a fixed back race shell if the harness was connected the same way. At least you'd think it would be clear. All the instructors I've had know the difference between Quick Fit Pro and others but there's something about changing to fixed back seats that freaks them out.

[EJ_3]

Originally Posted by justpete

And without a roll cage or roll bar.

With or without Quick Fit Pro harnesses.

And anybody get told they can't run this way in an HPDE?

Race buckets
Without a cage or bar
Without Quick Fit Pro
Never got told I couldn't run in a HPDE.

[justpete]

Originally Posted by EJ_3

Race buckets
Without a cage or bar
Without Quick Fit Pro
Never got told I couldn't run in a HPDE.

Thanks, good to know. Turns out it's the instructors I've asked over the years who are apparently unsure of the installation and thus the safety who then say it isn't allowed.

Finally got in touch with the right people at two driving schools and the local chapter of the BMWCCA. The driving schools had no problem at all and the BMWCCA response clarified the installation issue and once they knew who would be doing the work had no problem.

All three said there were no rules mandating a roll bar or roll cage or barring six points and race seats which is what I'd known cuz I couldn't find any but had been told otherwise by instructors. Been kinda confusing, not anymore though.