[MMbmw]

Originally Posted by Sakaike

I just want to weigh in on the advice offered by some to flame the dealership when you get that rating call. I was told something by my CA, which I hope others can either refute or confirm, that suggests you may want to think about this tactic.

I was told that while the questions are indeed about your entire experience, that the only one who gets slammed by the bad ratings is the CA, (and presumably the manager), not other individuals like the finance person or the delivery specialist.

He related a story to me about how one recent customer had an excellent overall experience, with the exception of the finance person. When the rating call came, the customer rated the entire experience a 5, with the exception of finance, which he gave a 3. As a result, the CA received no bonus for that quarter, resulting in a loss of several thousand dollars. This was the only non-5 the CA received during the quarter. The finance person was completely unaffected by this rating, since they are not evaluated and paid in the same way.

The moral here (assuming the story is accurate), is that if you really did appreciate the efforts of your CA, then don't flame the finance person in the rating - only the CA will suffer.

Intuitively, this doesn't make sense, but if it's reality then what to do should be clear: Write those letters and work outside the rating process.

Maybe some insiders can comment on this? I certainly don't want to be accused of spreading lies, but at the same time, it would be a shame to slam an otherwise good CA experience.

That's a load of crap. It's not my problem that BMW has implemented a rating structure that punishes the CA even if I respond negatively only to my experience with the Finance person. It may not be fair, but it aint my sad song to play. I call it like I see it. If any part of the service is shitty, there is no way I'm going to give them all top scores.

With that being said, I have received nothing but excellent service thus far, and expect the same level of treatment when I take delivery. As of right now, it's all 5s in my book. :-D

[LACA335i]

Originally Posted by JoeClothing

As I have posted on here before, I ordered a 2008 335i and it recently came in. We decided to lease a car for the first time and did the purchase through our CA at the local dealership who we are good friends with.

So long story short we head on up to the finance department to sign the paperwork and the finance manager who we were introduced to couldn't have been more rude to us. My wife and I got a bad vibe from this person almost instantly after we sat down. After only negotiating the sales price earlier, I began to ask her what the money factor was as well as the residuals. She looked at us with a snide look on her face and said "this is a lease and we don't disclose that type of information". I said to her, "are you kidding me"?, and in a harsh manner she said NO....and repeated for the 3rd time this is a lease, not a purchase and we don't disclose that information.
My wife literally got up from the desk and walked out of the room. At that point I laid into this lady like none other telling her, while I have never leased before, this is B.S. that she would treat us in this manner especially after purchasing 3 cars in 2 years from this dealership.

At that point she started to back down and conceded to showing me the figures. My wife then entered the room again, grabbed a candy cane off this lady's desk and said "let's go". So we stormed out of the office told our CA that this lady is an absolute basket case and he apologized on her behalf, sat down with us, and took care of our paperwork.

We did end up with the car which I absolutely love, but have to ask....has anyone ever been denied the ability to look over the terms of their contract?

was she having pms mood? it is not legal not to let you see the contract. you can report it the bmwusa.com for poor customer service dude.

[JoeClothing]

Originally Posted by Sakaike

I just want to weigh in on the advice offered by some to flame the dealership when you get that rating call. I was told something by my CA, which I hope others can either refute or confirm, that suggests you may want to think about this tactic.

I was told that while the questions are indeed about your entire experience, that the only one who gets slammed by the bad ratings is the CA, (and presumably the manager), not other individuals like the finance person or the delivery specialist.

He related a story to me about how one recent customer had an excellent overall experience, with the exception of the finance person. When the rating call came, the customer rated the entire experience a 5, with the exception of finance, which he gave a 3. As a result, the CA received no bonus for that quarter, resulting in a loss of several thousand dollars. This was the only non-5 the CA received during the quarter. The finance person was completely unaffected by this rating, since they are not evaluated and paid in the same way.

The moral here (assuming the story is accurate), is that if you really did appreciate the efforts of your CA, then don't flame the finance person in the rating - only the CA will suffer.

Intuitively, this doesn't make sense, but if it's reality then what to do should be clear: Write those letters and work outside the rating process.

Maybe some insiders can comment on this? I certainly don't want to be accused of spreading lies, but at the same time, it would be a shame to slam an otherwise good CA experience.

Interesting to say the least. Perhaps BMW needs to rethink their ratings system.

On a side note, it works similarly when you are having your car serviced. At one point I had my car in 3 times and didn't have the car properly repaired. When I got a call regarding my level of satisfaction, I said my SA was great but overall rated the experience as a "3". I also noted that it sucks bringing in an M5 only to drive off the lot in a GEO Metro. The next time I brought the car in, my SA apologized (almost seemed ashamed), and I had a nice 3 series loaner waiting for me.
I learned later on that anything other than a 5 detracts from the SA's bonus. I did feel bad, but at the same time the result of the "3" given has lead to better customer service for me and my wife.

[JoeClothing]

Originally Posted by LACA335i

was she having pms mood? it is not legal not to let you see the contract. you can report it the bmwusa.com for poor customer service dude.

I'm not going to lie, for whatever reason she was pretty emotional that day, and this assbag of a financier put her over the edge.

[stressdoc]

One can only hope that BMW USA has got someone employed to collect data on customer relations from open sources like Bimmerpost here where they can get much more detailed and valid information than what they get from the ratings scheme.

[dmz]

Were you born yesterday? This is story is bullshit. Of course your CA is going to tell you this. He want everyone to give them a good rating and will make up story like this hoping you will believe it and get other people to believe it and give them all good rating.

Originally Posted by Sakaike

I just want to weigh in on the advice offered by some to flame the dealership when you get that rating call. I was told something by my CA, which I hope others can either refute or confirm, that suggests you may want to think about this tactic.

I was told that while the questions are indeed about your entire experience, that the only one who gets slammed by the bad ratings is the CA, (and presumably the manager), not other individuals like the finance person or the delivery specialist.

He related a story to me about how one recent customer had an excellent overall experience, with the exception of the finance person. When the rating call came, the customer rated the entire experience a 5, with the exception of finance, which he gave a 3. As a result, the CA received no bonus for that quarter, resulting in a loss of several thousand dollars. This was the only non-5 the CA received during the quarter. The finance person was completely unaffected by this rating, since they are not evaluated and paid in the same way.

The moral here (assuming the story is accurate), is that if you really did appreciate the efforts of your CA, then don't flame the finance person in the rating - only the CA will suffer.

Intuitively, this doesn't make sense, but if it's reality then what to do should be clear: Write those letters and work outside the rating process.

Maybe some insiders can comment on this? I certainly don't want to be accused of spreading lies, but at the same time, it would be a shame to slam an otherwise good CA experience.

[BMWE90]

I completely understand what you guys are saying (those that repsonded to my comment). But say you did write a letter to management, only 2 things can happen. The manager(s) might give the woman a little talk or they might not. Either way I dont think she's going to get reprimanded for her action.

On the other hand, if she gets fired because of your letter, can you really live with that? I mean I've been through situations with dealers where I almost couldnt contain my anger but after cooling down, I was glad I didnt do anything. Look at it objectively: what will you gain from this?

Of course you can write the letter but like LedZep said, just dont be rash in the letter. My 2 cents.

[JoeClothing]

Originally Posted by BMWE90

I completely understand what you guys are saying (those that repsonded to my comment). But say you did write a letter to management, only 2 things can happen. The manager(s) might give the woman a little talk or they might not. Either way I dont think she's going to get reprimanded for her action.

On the other hand, if she gets fired because of your letter, can you really live with that? I mean I've been through situations with dealers where I almost couldnt contain my anger but after cooling down, I was glad I didnt do anything. Look at it objectively: what will you gain from this?

Of course you can write the letter but like LedZep said, just dont be rash in the letter. My 2 cents.

Here's the thing...writing to the management like you stated, will basically do next to nothing. That's why I called BMWNA this morning and they took down a report of my encounter. I then asked them for the personal contact information of the dealership owner, which they gave me. I will be writing him a letter regarding my dealership experience.

The fact of the matter is that when you have a vested financial interest in a company you take matters more seriously which is why I will not be contacting management but the owner himself.

Look at it this way....if you were managing the dealership would you want the owner to know that an incident like this took place under your watch? I don't think so, because it will reflect poorly on you. Management sweeps issues like mine under the rug, however I can assure you BMWNA and Dealership owners do not.

Should she get fired; probably not
If she gets fired will I care; probably not

[Lassaxi]

Originally Posted by BMWE90

On the other hand, if she gets fired because of your letter, can you really live with that? I mean I've been through situations with dealers where I almost couldnt contain my anger but after cooling down, I was glad I didnt do anything. Look at it objectively: what will you gain from this?

Of course you can write the letter but like LedZep said, just dont be rash in the letter. My 2 cents.

This is a very fair point. If someone is going to do something about receiving poor service, they need to be comfortable with the potential consequences. I personally wouldn't write a letter unless I was comfortable with someone getting fired or losing a bonus as a result. That said, there have been times when I've written the letter because I was perfectly comfortable with either of those outcomes.

And, a word about the 5-point rating system. Virtually no one will dispute that the system is useless. There is generally no point in giving less than an "all 5" rating, unless you are prepared to cause a lot of grief and cost someone some money. That said, if the offense was significant, I wouldn't hold back. But, above all, I think writing a letter is important. If the offense is particularly serious, copying someone at BMWNA may convey a sense of urgency to the matter.

[VIZSLA]

Welcome to a primordal vestige of the "good old days" of car sales.
Its an unfortunate fact but in some dealerships are still haunted by the "Closer".
This person who is the designated A** h**e. Their role is to put what ever profit they can into what you thought was a done deal. Be it dubious finance plans, useless optons, extra previously unmentioned fees, "protection" plans etc.
Its a practice as old as car retailing in this country and seems never to die.
The closer is usually an older more experienced salesman who plays the bad cop to the salesperson's good cop.
As you discovered the only way to succeed here is to play as hard as they do and be willing to walk out on the deal rather than accept what they try and push on you.
We like to think that as educated consumers we can bargin on an equal basis, but sometimes we forget that these guys do this for a living and are very good at their jobs. Their job being to get as much of our money as possible.
Don't misunderstand me. Its not a matter of right or wrong, good or bad. Its just business.

[JoeClothing]

Originally Posted by VIZSLA

Welcome to a primordal vestige of the "good old days" of car sales.
Its an unfortunate fact but in some dealerships are still haunted by the "Closer".
This person who is the designated A** h**e. Their role is to put what ever profit they can into what you thought was a done deal. Be it dubious finance plans, useless optons, extra previously unmentioned fees, "protection" plans etc.
Its a practice as old as car retailing in this country and seems never to die.
The closer is usually an older more experienced salesman who plays the bad cop to the salesperson's good cop.
As you discovered the only way to succeed here is to play as hard as they do and be willing to walk out on the deal rather than accept what they try and push on you.
We like to think that as educated consumers we can bargin on an equal basis, but sometimes we forget that these guys do this for a living and are very good at their jobs. Their job being to get as much of our money as possible.
Don't misunderstand me. Its not a matter of right or wrong, good or bad. Its just business.

Well said My only question is; what does the "closer" have to gain by not showing me the lease figures? It makes me a little skeptical that something shady went on with my contract that I don't know about.

[VIZSLA]

Originally Posted by JoeClothing

Well said My only question is; what does the "closer" have to gain by not showing me the lease figures? It makes me a little skeptical that something shady went on with my contract that I don't know about.

Knowledge is power. If you don't have all the figures and rates how can you determine costs? If you're being kept in the dark it isn't for your benefit.

[adc]

Originally Posted by JoeClothing

All in all the whole experience was terrible and while none of you know my wife and I personally, I can honestly say we are some of the most easy going people you will ever meet, and it takes a lot to get us pissed off.

Let me guess - was it VOB? Or Fairfax?

BTW, I think I saw your new car - Montego sedan, correct? Congratulations!

[magamaga]

Well done JoeClothing! I recently went to a Toyota dealership because I had spoken with sales person about it. When I got there the car (used car for my mother in-law) was in worst shape than he described and when we sat down to deal, he basically said, the quoted price is the final price. I was shocked to hear that especially since the car needed brake work. I asked if he had me drive 45 miles to the north of Houston to visit a dealership that wouldn't deal? He said yes and then got up and left. I wasn't rude to him or anything.
A week later I got a call from dealership to find out about my experience and I let them have it. I told them the name of the sales person and how rude he was to me.

[LambOfGod]

Originally Posted by JoeClothing

As I have posted on here before, I ordered a 2008 335i and it recently came in. We decided to lease a car for the first time and did the purchase through our CA at the local dealership who we are good friends with.

So long story short we head on up to the finance department to sign the paperwork and the finance manager who we were introduced to couldn't have been more rude to us. My wife and I got a bad vibe from this person almost instantly after we sat down. After only negotiating the sales price earlier, I began to ask her what the money factor was as well as the residuals. She looked at us with a snide look on her face and said "this is a lease and we don't disclose that type of information". I said to her, "are you kidding me"?, and in a harsh manner she said NO....and repeated for the 3rd time this is a lease, not a purchase and we don't disclose that information.
My wife literally got up from the desk and walked out of the room. At that point I laid into this lady like none other telling her, while I have never leased before, this is B.S. that she would treat us in this manner especially after purchasing 3 cars in 2 years from this dealership.

At that point she started to back down and conceded to showing me the figures. My wife then entered the room again, grabbed a candy cane off this lady's desk and said "let's go". So we stormed out of the office told our CA that this lady is an absolute basket case and he apologized on her behalf, sat down with us, and took care of our paperwork.

We did end up with the car which I absolutely love, but have to ask....has anyone ever been denied the ability to look over the terms of their contract?

Typical...The car business is very Shady. I've had so many nightmare purchases over the years...you wouldn't believe it. My brother and some of my friends are in the business. Some of the stories they tell me are unbelievable.

[JoeClothing]

Originally Posted by adc

Let me guess - was it VOB? Or Fairfax?

BTW, I think I saw your new car - Montego sedan, correct? Congratulations!

Hey ADC...yeah Montego Sedan....that's me. We'll still have to get together for a run one of these days.

[adc]

Originally Posted by JoeClothing

Hey ADC...yeah Montego Sedan....that's me. We'll still have to get together for a run one of these days.

Yeah, I'll stop by one of these weekends, maybe after it warms up a little...

[mpimping]

call bmw on her and see what happens. don't give the salesman a bad survey or even mention anything when they call because he might get penalized. just call bmwna and have your wife tell the story. sorry to hear about what happened. I hate car dealerships for the most part. Usually it's the service dept that gets me angry...