[Sered]

Originally Posted by Ozzie335i

So Sered, Jeff of TGS is wrong, and 10 out of 10 people discussing it have not actually seen the videos he reposted, and have no idea what they are talking about? Clutch chatter, flywheel chatter. Call it whatever you will, some of us are shying away from the sound when going with a smfw. Happy trolling.

I'm not trolling. Just correcting an error. The M3 guys didn't have this problem. Sorry for expecting better.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by Sered

I'm not trolling. Just correcting an error. The M3 guys didn't have this problem. Sorry for expecting better.

He's trolling, not you, don't worry. I'll try to make some efforts to change the platforms terminology used.

Eitherway, one should know going to SMFW will cause some drivetrain noise as others have tried to explain, removal of the DFMW that dampened a lot of noise will allow that noise to come through with the SMFW.

After 8 years in the platform and 100's of Spec clutches sold, I find it funny someone is trying to call me out like I don't know what I'm talking about but hey, it's the forums and people love semantics. LOL

If you need any further clarification, I'll be happy to help.

[MFactory]

Jeff@TopGearSolutions: We need to start using the word "rattle". I get PM's everyday (as I'm sure you do also) from people asking about "chatter" when they are actually asking about gear noise i.e "rattle"

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by MFactory

Jeff@TopGearSolutions: We need to start using the word "rattle". I get PM's everyday (as I'm sure you do also) from people asking about "chatter" when they are actually asking about gear noise i.e "rattle"

Rattle is probably the best term, as I noted before, it sounds like marbles in a can rattling.

Exciting stuff!

[Ozzie335i]

Originally Posted by Jeff@TopGearSolutions

Hmm, thanks for the remark but I'll kindly disagree.

In this platform the term "CHATTER" has been taken and used as a direct translation to the "NOISE" created by the use of the SMFW.

In the clutch industry as a whole, chatter typically was related to the engagement of the clutch and the shake or chatter during engagement, typically with 4 puck or 6 puck clutches, depending.

So, no I'm not wrong but thanks for your insight.

Oh and by the way, I didn't make up the term, it's just been widely used in this platform. To me, it sounds like a can of marbles shaking but to repeat that remark across the boards would get tiring, so for now, it's been widely said to be "chatter" for the sake of ease.

Jeff, I was merely poking a little fun at Sared about what people call it, and apparently neither him or you got it. Sorry I tried to be cute and took it there. Everybody here, 10 people of 10 in your words knows it exists, and most likely are aware of the cause and effect of this anomaly, for the very reasons you gave above. My point was that there was no need for Sared to go to each thread and correct us all on naming semantics. I guess only I found his response of doing that funny since anyone interested in this has seen the videos, read the discussions, and have the t-shirt.

Many here reading up on this have these same concerns about this as I do, and want a solution. I am in a quandary in what I need to do right now as I have plans to increase the boost. In doing so I am getting as many opinions as I can before making a final decision, of which either way I very well may end up having regrets. I just might even tease a fellow e90er along the way. If that makes me a troll, so be it. Do I go with the Spec 3+ and MFactory SMFW, and have the "rattle," as Stephen referred to it as. Ha, nice play. ;-P Or do I go with a quiet, more BMW like solution, which I may end up with having timing issues, and possibly the DMFW itself disintegrating, as one poster mentioned? Versus debating naming semantics of an anomaly of which we are all well aware of, a manufacturer should step up and provide a solution for us N55 guys such as that provided to the N54 guys, by raising the idle speed via MHD software. My order would be made this week, and I'd quit trolling.

[MFactory]

The main issue is not the semantic difference between "rattle" and "chatter". Basically, everyone is referring to the same thing i.e gear noise

The issue is that, because everyone is calling it "chatter", they also end up associating the "rattle" with the real meaning of "chatter", when they are completely different things, hence why almost 9 out of 10 customers who ask about a SMFW are always worried about engagement/driveability when used with a SAC type clutch.

Basically, oem SAC type clutch is non-sprung. Does this engage smoothly? Of course it does. Is the DMFW noisy? Of course not, as it has a dampener in it, and that is the ONLY difference between the DMFW and SMFW.

So why does EVERYONE worry about using an oem SAC type clutch with an SMFW? Simple. They are confusing "rattle" with "chatter". Of all the clutches that I've sold (be it oem or SPEC) with our SMFW, I have yet to have 1 single customer complain about engagement/driveability. The 2+/3+ are full-face clutches, so in terms of "chatter", there really is no difference over oem.

Main reason for going SMFW? Well, it depends on what power you are making:

< 500whp: Increased throttle response
> 500whp: Increased throttle response. Eliminates CEL/Misfires

Disadvantage? There is only 1: Gear Noise i.e Rattle (which on the 54 can be near-eliminated by raising the idle to 900rpm)

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by Ozzie335i

Jeff, I was merely poking a little fun at Sared about what people call it, and apparently neither him or you got it. Sorry I tried to be cute and took it there. Everybody here, 10 people of 10 in your words knows it exists, and most likely are aware of the cause and effect of this anomaly, for the very reasons you gave above. My point was that there was no need for Sared to go to each thread and correct us all on naming semantics. I guess only I found his response of doing that funny since anyone interested in this has seen the videos, read the discussions, and have the t-shirt.

Many here reading up on this have these same concerns about this as I do, and want a solution. I am in a quandary in what I need to do right now as I have plans to increase the boost. In doing so I am getting as many opinions as I can before making a final decision, of which either way I very well may end up having regrets. I just might even tease a fellow e90er along the way. If that makes me a troll, so be it. Do I go with the Spec 3+ and MFactory SMFW, and have the "rattle," as Stephen referred to it as. Ha, nice play. ;-P Or do I go with a quiet, more BMW like solution, which I may end up with having timing issues, and possibly the DMFW itself disintegrating, as one poster mentioned? Versus debating naming semantics of an anomaly of which we are all well aware of, a manufacturer should step up and provide a solution for us N55 guys such as that provided to the N54 guys, by raising the idle speed via MHD software. My order would be made this week, and I'd quit trolling.

I apologize for missing the humor. All I read was "I was wrong" and felt I needed to correct the remark.

I tell most of my customers if you are staying on stock turbo's to stay with a new DMFW and Spec Stage 2+.

Are you making enough power to need a stage 3+ clutch kit? If so, then choose that one as you really have no choice. Once you are in excess of 500WHP you have to go to a SMFW so there really is no choice in the matter unless you want to try running a DMFW at the 500WHP+ level and hope it doesn't throw a CEL for misfires because the flywheel can potentially become imbalanced at that HP level.

What is only a little rattle to some might be huge to someone else, it depends on your sensitivity.

I truly feel the clutch and flywheel choices are pretty straight forward.

Stock Turbo - 2+
Upgraded Turbo 3+
If upgraded turbo then you must go SMFW.

If you are making that much power, you should be able to cope with a little rattle given you are basically 2x more power then stock and some sacrifice always comes with that kind of power.

Hope this helps.

[Sertone777]

Ive been running pretty much FBO except down pipes . Boost in the range of 15-18 psi.
new clutch was mated to same previous fly wheel. Downside is i bought the car from unknown person that replaced the clutch.
moving on..... Since ive been running the extra boost Im getting flywheel chatter with Dual mass. I can tell because of how I engage and disengage the clutch i get the flywheel snap sound affect , metal lash affect. So.....
How long do these flywheels last (Dual Mass)? I had a bad episode with clutch after testing v6 maps for Wedge Performance and my clutch had a hard time disengaging!
With that said Id like to get some input from whomever willing . My theory is damaged springs in the Dual Mass were to stressed (possibly damaged ) and caused the release issue with my gear box?

[Fundguy1]

Look at the motiv clutch flywheel setup. Dmfw, dual disc clutch, low chatter, slightly more clutch weight, rated 1000hp. Love mine.

[Sertone777]

Originally Posted by Jeff@TopGearSolutions

I apologize for missing the humor. All I read was "I was wrong" and felt I needed to correct the remark.

I tell most of my customers if you are staying on stock turbo's to stay with a new DMFW and Spec Stage 2+.

Are you making enough power to need a stage 3+ clutch kit? If so, then choose that one as you really have no choice. Once you are in excess of 500WHP you have to go to a SMFW so there really is no choice in the matter unless you want to try running a DMFW at the 500WHP+ level and hope it doesn't throw a CEL for misfires because the flywheel can potentially become imbalanced at that HP level.

What is only a little rattle to some might be huge to someone else, it depends on your sensitivity.

I truly feel the clutch and flywheel choices are pretty straight forward.

Stock Turbo - 2+
Upgraded Turbo 3+
If upgraded turbo then you must go SMFW.

If you are making that much power, you should be able to cope with a little rattle given you are basically 2x more power then stock and some sacrifice always comes with that kind of power.

Hope this helps.

Your post makes alot of sense. I feel my flywheel is in pain and has caused vibrations under high boost , causing ignition correction logs . Damn! any how , your certain the Dual Mass with Spec 2+ will do the trick? And if so and you had to set a target number of miles , how many miles would you say its good for in a Mix of city driving , spirited and some hard pulls throughout? Im trying to gauge what i learn to lean into a purchase but i only typically do so with informed input . #pickyminded

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by Sertone777

Your post makes alot of sense. I feel my flywheel is in pain and has caused vibrations under high boost , causing ignition correction logs . Damn! any how , your certain the Dual Mass with Spec 2+ will do the trick? And if so and you had to set a target number of miles , how many miles would you say its good for in a Mix of city driving , spirited and some hard pulls throughout? Im trying to gauge what i learn to lean into a purchase but i only typically do so with informed input . #pickyminded

We've seen people do over 40K on a 2+. It largely depends on how well you can drive and how it's installed.

[Fundguy1]

Spec makes the one I mentioned that motiv sells. It's their top of the line for high hp vehicles and unfortunately expensive because motiv has an exclusive with PTF to sell it.