[gresey]

I have 2007 E92 with 90k miles; got TRW M3 front control arms (both upper and lower) installed few weeks ago, shortly after also replaced front rotors and brake pads to new BMW OEMs. Also got new front tires (Bridgestone RE-11s). Alignment done after all these replacements were completed (see below).

There is definitely less understeer, but not dramatically. BUT the ride is very rough; it is not vibration per se, there is no left-right shaking/movement of the steering wheel, overall it feels overall exceptionally stiff and kind of bumpy, even at lower speeds. Braking is smooth, no additional vibration when braking.

Everything else in suspension is stock.

What is going on? My current plan it to get rear wheels balanced, last time it was done about a year ago. Is there anything else which may be causing the roughness? May be re-do the alignment, or ask to align to different specs?

Left front
Camber -0.9
Toe 0.10

Steer ahead 0.00

Right front
Camber -0.6
Toe 0.10

Left rear
Camber -1.7
Toe 0.13

Right rear
Camber -1.8
Toe 0.14

Thrust angle 0.00

[feuer]

That is the only draw back of the M3 arms and all arms that have race or race inspired bushings or bearings. There is no remedy for that other than you learning to live with it.

[jwebb335xi]

Originally Posted by gresey

I have 2007 E92 with 90k miles; got TRW M3 front control arms (both upper and lower) installed few weeks ago, shortly after also replaced front rotors and brake pads to new BMW OEMs. Also got new front tires (Bridgestone RE-11s). Alignment done after all these replacements were completed (see below).

There is definitely less understeer, but not dramatically. BUT the ride is very rough; it is not vibration per se, there is no left-right shaking/movement of the steering wheel, overall it feels overall exceptionally stiff and kind of bumpy, even at lower speeds. Braking is smooth, no additional vibration when braking.

Everything else in suspension is stock.

What is going on? My current plan it to get rear wheels balanced, last time it was done about a year ago. Is there anything else which may be causing the roughness? May be re-do the alignment, or ask to align to different specs?

Left front
Camber -0.9
Toe 0.10

Steer ahead 0.00

Right front
Camber -0.6
Toe 0.10

Left rear
Camber -1.7
Toe 0.13

Right rear
Camber -1.8
Toe 0.14

Thrust angle 0.00

You might also want to check your tire pressure. It could be that the tire shop set your pressure a couple pounds too high... There's a world of difference in the feel of your front end when tires are at 33-34 versus 38, for example. But, as noted before, better handling generally requires stiffer suspension components and that costs in terms of smooth ride.

[justpete]

Originally Posted by gresey

I have 2007 E92 with 90k miles; got TRW M3 front control arms (both upper and lower) installed few weeks ago, shortly after also replaced front rotors and brake pads to new BMW OEMs. Also got new front tires (Bridgestone RE-11s). Alignment done after all these replacements were completed (see below).

There is definitely less understeer, but not dramatically. BUT the ride is very rough; it is not vibration per se, there is no left-right shaking/movement of the steering wheel, overall it feels overall exceptionally stiff and kind of bumpy, even at lower speeds. Braking is smooth, no additional vibration when braking.

Everything else in suspension is stock.

What is going on? My current plan it to get rear wheels balanced, last time it was done about a year ago. Is there anything else which may be causing the roughness? May be re-do the alignment, or ask to align to different specs?

Left front
Camber -0.9
Toe 0.10

Steer ahead 0.00

Right front
Camber -0.6
Toe 0.10

Left rear
Camber -1.7
Toe 0.13

Right rear
Camber -1.8
Toe 0.14

Thrust angle 0.00

Did they pull the alignment pin so the camber could be adjusted to such low values up front?

[#Tee]

they run a stiffer bushing. its the world of trade offs. if you dont notice but your steering should be more responsive. theres less deflection as a result from the upgrade but your assohmeter takes the hit lol.

[tlow98]

At 90k if your socks are still OE they're not helping at this point. Those are also some very stiff sidewall tires. Quite a bit stiffer than Michelin PSS (Michelin ps2 were run on stock m3 and similar to PSS) for example. Run lower pressures as mentioned.

[PrematureApex]

It's not your alignment. You put a stiffer bushing in the tension (compression) strut, and went with a very stiff sidewalled tire.

This is exactly why I paired my M3 lowers with Meyle HD uppers; all the benefits of extra camber from the lowers and slightly-stiffer-than-stock rubber bushings from the uppers. This upgrade should be plenty for most non-tracked street cars.

[gresey]

Originally Posted by justpete

Did they pull the alignment pin so the camber could be adjusted to such low values up front?

No, I even looked at them this morning, it is all covered in dust so definitely was not touched. It was -1.0/-1.0 after control arms were installed but before the alignment.

[mlifxs]

yeah I just went back to stock tension struts from m3 after 40k plus miles, in order to diagnose some nvh.

less road noise, less noise over ruts and expansion joints. better ride quality overall...but steering response is not as sharp with stock.

think I'll stick with stock for now, at least until fall autox events.

as others have noted, mods sometimes have tradeoffs, though some fail to mention during their post install honeymoon.

[jwebb335xi]

Originally Posted by FCobra94

This is exactly why I paired my M3 lowers with Meyle HD uppers; all the benefits of extra camber from the lowers and slightly-stiffer-than-stock rubber bushings from the uppers. This upgrade should be plenty for most non-tracked street cars.

Brilliant plan in its simplicity..

[justpete]

Originally Posted by gresey

No, I even looked at them this morning, it is all covered in dust so definitely was not touched. It was -1.0/-1.0 after control arms were installed but before the alignment.

OK, thanks. Thought the extra 0.7deg the lower arm adds would yield more camber than this after alignment but it's all good. The M3 arms are going to transmit more road feel to the wheel and your sense of the road might be that it's rough, I can see that. Doesn't seem to be anything wrong though.

[mlifxs]

Originally Posted by justpete

OK, thanks. Thought the extra 0.7deg the lower arm adds would yield more camber than this after alignment but it's all good. The M3 arms are going to transmit more road feel to the wheel and your sense of the road might be that it's rough, I can see that. Doesn't seem to be anything wrong though.

for whatever reason, I only saw -1.1 with m3 wishbones and pins pulled. prior to m3, I could only see -0.5 with pins pulled.

[justpete]

Originally Posted by mlifxs

for whatever reason, I only saw -1.1 with m3 wishbones and pins pulled. prior to m3, I could only see -0.5 with pins pulled.

Thanks! I was thinking for some reason the stock camber was like -1.0 or something. Never mind... :/

[mlifxs]

Originally Posted by justpete

Thanks! I was thinking for some reason the stock camber was like -1.0 or something. Never mind... :/

yeah my guess is baseline camber is ymmv. Jealous of those who claim -1.5 with m3.

[feuer]

Originally Posted by justpete

Thanks! I was thinking for some reason the stock camber was like -1.0 or something. Never mind... :/

Originally Posted by mlifxs

yeah my guess is baseline camber is ymmv. Jealous of those who claim -1.5 with m3.

I personally saw -1.3 to -1.5 on my car. Do not forget that all alignment racks are not equally calibrated nor all of us run identical combination of sptings, wheel size and off set and same tires and all of these affect the alingment somewhat. I have seen same car to have two similar but still different reading just from going down and back up n the alignment rack.