[Seth_Horwitz]

Every thread that talks about one versus the other always has someone say "well you can't sell such and such when you're done with it" (obviously Dinan or a Conforti Shark Injector). I have to ask, though, who cares? Is there a significant resale market for used piggyback computers? I know someone on this board sold a V2 because they were unhappy with certain things, and the V2 was (is, I guess) hard to get, but I wonder what kind of number it sold for.

Personally, if I could buy one of these piggybacks for $700 from the manufacturer, I wouldn't pay more than $200 for a used one. Even then I would really have to think things over. Who knows what the guy did to it, (broken pins, put it in his microwave, ...) and this is an item that could literally blow my engine. (Assuming someone made some changes that were not within the tuner's specs.) Am I the only one who thinks these items have no resale value? I'm going to buy one, don't get me wrong, but I think a lot of people are delusional if they are buying any of these parts and think that they will have some value in a few years.

I guess I'm going to get flamed now. Just wondering if I'm crazy.

[BoostedBMW]

I'm sure you will get some people who agree with you, but i'm not one of them. I think that piggybacks have the same resale value as any other used mod. If newer products come out of course the resale value will diminish even more, but I have parted out many cars in the past and most of the time you get back about 60% of what you paid for something assuming that there is still demand for the item. A pretty good example would be that I bought my AEM EMS for my last car for 1300 and I ended up selling it for 900 two years later. I know that's a different item, but unless there are drastic changes in the tuning market over the next few years, piggybacks will still have a decent resale value IMO. I know that some people will say how this wasn't the case with the evo market, but I guess only time will tell.

[radgator1]

Most have sold for 75% plus of the original purchase price without much trouble. The Vishnu products seem to retain more of the original price than the AA and RDSport ones. Now that V2 can be had new for 1250.00 or whatever it is I'm guessing used V2's will settle around 1000.00 and will sell easily at that price.

You can hold out for a 200.00 CPU based piggyback but it will be a long long wait until cheaper flashes are available, before you will see that kind of price.

[ween0t]

the only thing to worry about with re-selling a piggyback is the condition of the actual harness. you can always get new pins, and a new harness if you need to very inexpensively. I think some tuners even have a warranty on the actual piggyback + harness. the rest of it is really just software, and being that software isnt really a physical object, the resale value should be much higher than anything else. its not like you can break or over use the software. and of course if you're worried about the tune on it, you can always upload the latest and greatest map.

[Seth_Horwitz]

To clarify, $200 isn't the amount that I'd spend for a piggyback, just what I'd spend, if anything, on a used one. (I'd gladly pay the price for a V2 once I'm satisfied of the safety) As mentioned, maybe this question would be better answered in a Subi or Audi forum. I'd buy a used swaybar, intake, wheels, or maybe exhaust, but I just get a bad taste in picking up something that we all agree COULD cause tremendous damage if everything isn't 100% up to spec. Again, this isn't a shot at any tuner, I'd just be afraid that the end user made some change, either intentionally or unintentionally, that could have consequences.

[ween0t]

as i said earlier, the ONLY thing to worry about in a used piggyback is the wiring harness. So as long as the pins and wires arent bent or broken you should be good. and even then if you installed incorrectly or some wires werent perfect you'd just get a CEL. you can always just replace the wiring harness if you're really that concerned with what the previous owner had done to it.

There should be NO difference in performance or quality if installed correctly. Remember it's just software, so you can always upload the latest map so you know you're running something direct from the tuner.

are you worried about the tune (software) or the actual physical piggyback being in poor condition?

[Seth_Horwitz]

Originally Posted by ween0t

are you worried about the tune (software) or the actual physical piggyback being in poor condition?

The hardware, and whatever modfications have been made to the tune. I know that I can reflash the current tune, but have to wonder what kind of abuse a unit could have taken. You also have to wonder what happens to the value in three years when all of the piggybacks that are on leased cars hit the market. Again, I'm just curious as to other people's thoughts.

[Garrett]

Originally Posted by Seth_Horwitz

Every thread that talks about one versus the other always has someone say "well you can't sell such and such when you're done with it" (obviously Dinan or a Conforti Shark Injector). I have to ask, though, who cares? Is there a significant resale market for used piggyback computers? I know someone on this board sold a V2 because they were unhappy with certain things, and the V2 was (is, I guess) hard to get, but I wonder what kind of number it sold for.

Personally, if I could buy one of these piggybacks for $700 from the manufacturer, I wouldn't pay more than $200 for a used one. Even then I would really have to think things over. Who knows what the guy did to it, (broken pins, put it in his microwave, ...) and this is an item that could literally blow my engine. (Assuming someone made some changes that were not within the tuner's specs.) Am I the only one who thinks these items have no resale value? I'm going to buy one, don't get me wrong, but I think a lot of people are delusional if they are buying any of these parts and think that they will have some value in a few years.

I guess I'm going to get flamed now. Just wondering if I'm crazy.

I'll be the first one to jump on your bandwagon. Not only do many here sugeest this is some big market, but they went out on a limb to say they wouldn't buy ANYTHING that they couldn't resell.

Which to me is laughable....

I have stated that I'd weigh all option and buy the aftermarket tune I felt was right for me. If i could re-sell it at a later date, that would end up being a bonus. But.. in no way, shape or form, would it be part of my decision making process.

I've posted this several times and it seems they keep placing me in a minority, when the only person I see touting it is Mr 5. SO who knows.. I personally would rather have a DINAN or Shark Injector that I could sell along with the car. But perhaps many of those looking at resale are indeed pozer who want to hide from the dealer and walk away clean when they turned in their burnt-out lease. Then ebay their piggy, having enjoyed their phun with very little cost to themselves.






-Garrett

[jonm42]

Stage 0 V2 for 335i is $1295 + shipping. See http://www.vishnutuning.com/bmw_zero.htm

[BoostedBMW]

Originally Posted by Seth_Horwitz

The hardware, and whatever modfications have been made to the tune. I know that I can reflash the current tune, but have to wonder what kind of abuse a unit could have taken. You also have to wonder what happens to the value in three years when all of the piggybacks that are on leased cars hit the market. Again, I'm just curious as to other people's thoughts.

I don't even know of a piggyback on the market where the consumer can modify the tune at all. This isn't anything like a standalone where you can change boost/fuel/timing for every 50rpm increments. The only thing that people have been able to modify has been the torque values for V2, and that is still not changing the tune outside of the parameters that Shiv has provided.

[radgator1]

Originally Posted by Seth_Horwitz

The hardware, and whatever modfications have been made to the tune. I know that I can reflash the current tune, but have to wonder what kind of abuse a unit could have taken. You also have to wonder what happens to the value in three years when all of the piggybacks that are on leased cars hit the market. Again, I'm just curious as to other people's thoughts.

What they will sell for 3 years from now has nothing to do with what they sell for now. For 200.00 you can get a JB1 or maybe a used JB2. Other than that it's irrelevent that 200.00 is what you would pay for a used piggyback since they sell all the time for 800-1200 and there is absolutely nothing to worry about other than the harness and connectors. Its not like driving your car hard puts a lot of ware and tare on the piggyback

[Seth_Horwitz]

I guess I agree that there is currently a secondary market as there is a market equillibrium, and in certain cases a supply shortage, but the economic part of my brain tells me that the market will be flooded with these second hand units after a few years, which I assume is when people plan on selling. I guess I'm in the minority. Thanks for the input guys.

[ween0t]

more than likely in a few years the resale value of the piggybacks will go way down. especially once more ecu flashes come out and people can flash their cars on their own. however, at the moment the piggyback (specifically v2) offers the best performance and people are willing to pay to play. and as long as theres a demand for the product, people will be buying the product. used or not.

[Mr. 5]

I've sold 2 of them.

The SSTT and the JB1.

[bulletproofuno]

i bought my xede for 750$ .625% of the original price....

[Mr. 5]

Originally Posted by Garrett

I'll be the first one to jump on your bandwagon. Not only do many here sugeest this is some big market, but they went out on a limb to say they wouldn't buy ANYTHING that they couldn't resell.

Which to me is laughable....

I have stated that I'd weigh all option and buy the aftermarket tune I felt was right for me. If i could re-sell it at a later date, that would end up being a bonus. But.. in no way, shape or form, would it be part of my decision making process.

I've posted this several times and it seems they keep placing me in a minority, when the only person I see touting it is Mr 5. SO who knows.. I personally would rather have a DINAN or Shark Injector that I could sell along with the car. But perhaps many of those looking at resale are indeed pozer who want to hide from the dealer and walk away clean when they turned in their burnt-out lease. Then ebay their piggy, having enjoyed their phun with very little cost to themselves.






-Garrett

The funny thing about this statement is that in most cases mods sold with the car will get less money or the same money than the car sold stock. I have made more money taking mods off of my car and selling them individualy and selling the car stock than vise versa.

There is a bigger market of people that want a stock car than a modded one. Modified vehicles scare away the general public because they don't want to purchase something that has been modified (tricked out and raced in their mind). Even if someone is going to modify a used car, they are going to do it to their liking and not to the previous person's.
I've seen this over and over in the classified section with people selling cars with this and that and they think they could get more for it just because they have a whole bunch of crap on it.

Hey man, you have your way and you'll do what you want.
I have my way, and it's worked very well for me. I couldn't have afforded to do all of the testing with all of the tuners if I wasn't able to sell them afterwards. (Garrett, are you familiar with these tests?) I would love to test the Dinan software on my car but unless there is a trial version of the software, I just can't afford to do it.

Another thing, I don't know if you were talking about me when you said that some say that they will never pay for something that they can't resell because that's not the case. I've paid for plenty software programs in the past on my previous cars and I never got anything back. I actually took the car to the dealer so they could flash the ecu with the new software to overwrite the performance software. Why would I do this? Because stock cars sell faster than modified cars--plain and simple!

[hotrod2448]

Originally Posted by BoostedBMW

I don't even know of a piggyback on the market where the consumer can modify the tune at all. This isn't anything like a standalone where you can change boost/fuel/timing for every 50rpm increments. The only thing that people have been able to modify has been the torque values for V2, and that is still not changing the tune outside of the parameters that Shiv has provided.

When Shiv sold the Exede to Evo community we could tune it ourselves. If the Procede wasn't locked we could do the same. Go look at the Haltech site under interceptor and download the software. Look familiar? Too bad the Procede uses different firmware than the standard Interceptor from what I've read at least.

Either way after reflashes became readily available the value of piggybacks took a complete nose dive and I'm sure they will in this market as well.

I still bought a Procede though just because it is currently one of the best tuning solutions. I don't know some people are obsessed with being able to sell it though.

[Seth_Horwitz]

Originally Posted by hotrod2448

Either way after reflashes became readily available the value of piggybacks took a complete nose dive and I'm sure they will in this market as well.

I still bought a Procede though just because it is currently one of the best tuning solutions. I don't know some people are obsessed with being able to sell it though.

This is my point exactly. I will probably go with a Procede as it's a great tune. BUT, I wouldn't choose it over something else because I thought it would be worth something in the end. This "being able to sell it" seems to be brought up in any post explaining why "Dinan Sucks" or "Conforti locks to one car, so you can never sell it." In my opinion, some people have some unrealistic expectations as to what they will be able to sell their piggybacks for when they all take them off in two to three years time. Right now, used units are few and far between. I don't think that'll be the case in even one year's time.

[hotrod2448]

Originally Posted by Seth_Horwitz

This is my point exactly. I will probably go with a Procede as it's a great tune. BUT, I wouldn't choose it over something else because I thought it would be worth something in the end. This "being able to sell it" seems to be brought up in any post explaining why "Dinan Sucks" or "Conforti locks to one car, so you can never sell it." In my opinion, some people have some unrealistic expectations as to what they will be able to sell their piggybacks for when they all take them off in two to three years time. Right now, used units are few and far between. I don't think that'll be the case in even one year's time.

I'm sure there will be a steady supply as leases expire.

I would never buy a mod I didn't want as much as another mod because I could get better resale out of it.

[ets335]

I had a flash from GIAC on my 337 (25th anniversary GTI) and when I sold it, I was not able to get any of the $500 I sent on the flash. I sold every other mod for 50-75%. I also bought used parts to support that market.

I just bought a V1&V2 used here. I was shopping around for the longest time and everyone was selling it around $1200 when Vishnu was selling it for $1500-$1600 before tax and shipping. That's a good percentage. I ended up stealing it for $700.

If people lease their cars and still want the power, a piggy back is good so that when they return the car they can at least get something back instead of giving it for free to someone else. If you are planning to keep this car for 7+ years then I say get a more permanent solution like the DINAN flash. That's if you buy these "chips" for just power and not tunning/custom modding. More plug and play thinking.