[nukezero]

My car is getting turbo's replaced at a local indy specializing in BMWs. A E92 M3 arrived today on the lift and I asked wtf is wrong with that car? They said, rod bearings.

Then I went to the M3 section and it sounds like this is a very serious and known issue/defect with the S65 engine. Either way, would you guys rather deal with turbo wastegate issues, boost leaks, hpfp, and injectors, or would you guys rather deal with rod bearings?

From what I gathered, replacing rod bearings is short term and the best job is to replace the entire bottom end or in most cases a new engine! The typical rod bearing job costs $2500. Which puts it on par with replacing both turbos parts and labor on the n54.

edit: oops, looks like there is already a disgruntled owner with a 2011 filing a class action suit regarding rod bearing wear. https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-...t-class-action

[hellokitty]

and f8x m3/m4 owners have issues with spinning the crank hub on the s55. nothing is perfect ��

[Mr. Tasty]

Originally Posted by hellokitty

and f8x m3/m4 owners have issues with spinning the crank hub on the s55. nothing is perfect ��

This, but obviously replacing turbos is much easier than fixing rod bearings.
We don't get s65 induction and exhaust notes though...

[135Pats]

I'll replace bolt-ons all day before I have to/have to have someone drop the pan to do bearings. No thanks.

[vasillalov]

(facepalm)

You guys are crazy. Turner sells upgraded M3 rod bearing kit for under $700.00 and that includes all the hardware, gaskets, etc etc. An experienced shop can get this done under 4 hours of work. So, replacing rod bearings is like $1500 tops.

Tell me how much do your upgraded turbos cost after you buy them, install them, get all the supporting mods for them and tune them?

Don't get me wrong, I love the N54 and I love my 335i, but this post is about as stupid as it gets.

[DennisPacMo]

My shop has done two sets in the last year. Anyone that has a V8 M3 should be doing oil samples and submitting them to Blackstone Labs.
The repair is much quicker in the shop than N54 turbos.
The last rod bearing repair we did was $2623.64

[Miller335]

Well the turbos and HPFP are covered under warranty.

Buddy just bought an 08 335 and I noticed it had a bit of wastegate rattle.
We called up the dealership and his manufacture date was July so he just got new turbos at 66k miles right before his year cutoff.

Needless to say he's super excited.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Every vehicle has it's faults regardless of year, platform or engine.

If you want a reliable vehicle buy a 90's Honda or at least make sure it has a K Series

[MiniXP]

n54s have rod bearing issues too unfortunately.

[nukezero]

Originally Posted by Jeff@TopGearSolutions

Every vehicle has it's faults regardless of year, platform or engine.

If you want a reliable vehicle buy a 90's Honda or at least make sure it has a K Series

I have a K24A2 TSX right now as a spare car. 2005 motor original @ 183k miles. Just changed the oil again and again. It's practically BULLET-PROOF like you said. The K-series Honda is probably one of the best engine Honda has ever produced. Most ricers have been swapping K's into their hatches and doing 12s.


The F8x M3/M4's have that spun crank hub problem. I took a look at their thread and that one is also freakin' serious. Basically, if you money shift the car or rev too high, the crank hub gets f'd and then it throws the timing all out of whack and causes serious engine damage. A lot of S55 owners were like "how da hell can we not push our motors more and spin the crank hub, when N54 owners are pushing their stock motor with so much power with no issues?". LOL

Okay, I rest my case. I rather have the N54 be bullet proof internally, and just replace the external accessories like turbos and hpfp. The N54 is quite bullet proof.


Don't know about you guys but I'm not a big fan of using aftermarket parts "internally" in an engine, so like rods, bearings, cranks, etc.

[nukezero]

By the way, Honda now has a 8 speed DCT (with a torque converter) and a 9 speed AT.

I wonder how well the 8 speed DCT is compared to the BMW one in terms of reliability.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by nukezero

I have a K24A2 TSX right now as a spare car. 2005 motor original @ 183k miles. Just changed the oil again and again. It's practically BULLET-PROOF like you said. The K-series Honda is probably one of the best engine Honda has ever produced. Most ricers have been swapping K's into their hatches and doing 12s.


The F8x M3/M4's have that spun crank hub problem. I took a look at their thread and that one is also freakin' serious. Basically, if you money shift the car or rev too high, the crank hub gets f'd and then it throws the timing all out of whack and causes serious engine damage. A lot of S55 owners were like "how da hell can we not push our motors more and spin the crank hub, when N54 owners are pushing their stock motor with so much power with no issues?". LOL

Okay, I rest my case. I rather have the N54 be bullet proof internally, and just replace the external accessories like turbos and hpfp. The N54 is quite bullet proof.


Don't know about you guys but I'm not a big fan of using aftermarket parts "internally" in an engine, so like rods, bearings, cranks, etc.

I'm usually one to prefer the so called "factory seal" on engine internals myself.

When you dive into the engine I feel like it opens a can of worms.

I had an RSX with a supercharger and nitrous back in the day and 05 accord as a beater. The accord K series was bullet proof so as long as you added oil... LOL. Wasn't the strongest k series and not the same as the TSX but decent nonetheless for reliability.

[Bmwfixerguy]

Originally Posted by DennisPacMo

My shop has done two sets in the last year. Anyone that has a V8 M3 should be doing oil samples and submitting them to Blackstone Labs.
The repair is much quicker in the shop than N54 turbos.
The last rod bearing repair we did was $2623.64

As a BMW tech...
I second that I remeber s54 rod bearing recall..

Anyways rod bearing is a much more pleasurable job than turbos

[Miller335]

Originally Posted by nukezero

Don't know about you guys but I'm not a big fan of using aftermarket parts "internally" in an engine, so like rods, bearings, cranks, etc.

That's where I'm at with engines also, IMO no one builds engines better then factory these days.

[ritzzzzzwik]

This is why I love the internet lol

Really folks it not nearly as bad as its made out to be, I even did a poll (not very scientific, but gives you a good estimate), but besides that the failure rate is pretty low.

On cars where they did let go, they happened right around 30K miles, which ofcourse meant a new engine. People who do it do it as preventative maintenance at around 60-80K miles, for a price less than a decent set of coilovers. On a car that is track ready from factory.

A LOT of people havent had their bearings replaces, who track their cars, and are quite high mileage

Bearing are Much, MUCH cheaper to replace than Turbos. And you may not even need to do it. But with the Turbos, well you most certainly will if you keep it for long.

spending 2.5K every 90-100K miles or so to replace rod bearing, is a lot cheaper and easier to do than replacing turbos. Speaking of replaced turbos- quite a few dont even last that long :/

Yes there are a few others issues (like throttle body actuators- around 3K for 2 plastic bits), but not quite as many as the n54 335 has.

Please dont get me wrong. I absolutely LOVE the mighty N54, but this also absolutely ADORE the S65.
I've been looking for a proper 6speed (and one thats not white!) for what seems like an eternity, to complete my set. The two gems of the e90 era. N54 and the S65


PS- people have tried filing lawsuits against BMWNA, but nothing much came of those.

[nukezero]

Not sure why you guys are downplaying the rod bearing problem, but the e9x M3 owners have started a 70-page thread/registry and collected lots of people who have symptoms of the rod bearings and causing blown engines. Sure it may be "easier" to repair the rod bearing problem than drop turbos, but the rod bearing issue has a potential to catastrophically cause more damage to your motor if not addressed soon. A blown turbo or bad wastegate just means no boost and you can still run the motor.

Professional engine rebuilders have came out and said that fixing the rod bearing is a BAND-AID! It will not fully fix the problem, and that one should rebuild the bottom end anyhow.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=786615

All I can say is... wow... now I'm glad, I didn't buy an e9x m3. Seems like a high performing, revving, engine have very, very tight tolerances to deal with.

[ritzzzzzwik]

Not down playing it. I want one of those. And trust me when I say I have my reservations. Thing is that engine is not anymore likely to let go that our tuned TQ monsters.

I've read through multiple threads like that one, but when people post pics of what their bearing looked like at 80,90,100K, its always a split. Some believe any kind of wear is unacceptable, others say its absolutely fine. The verdict is till out

Here's the poll I ran. I know its not thousands of people, but it does put the situation into perspective.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/poll.ph...ts&pollid=8532

Its true that the tolerance is to small, and the rod bearing is an inherent design flaw, but its not one thats enough for one to stop considering buying one. spending 2.5K on a car every 80K seems ok to me.

Bottom line is our cars are not M. We can spend money and get it up to par, and beyond; then again why bother. One should have bought an M.

[stanlalee]

I love how lightly one refers to replacing rod bearings every 80k miles. I doubt many people have driven E9x M3s to 80-90k miles as they are almost always weekend cars so there are going to be a shit load of owners who haven't been affected but will be. Slapping new bearings in via dropping the pan on an engine that has already failed its first set of bearings is far from ideal or something I'd want to inherent. As mentioned tolerances and precision are crucial. That's what engine stands, a clean room, surface machining and somebody experienced rebuilding engines are for. This is what you do in an old Ford with 200k miles you just want to keep on the road.

[ritzzzzzwik]

It boils down to - do you want the car or not?
If you dont then the rod bearing issue is bad enough for you to not buy it. Then again, which car is?
The new f80 has the crank hub issue thats surfaced. With those atleast I can get a new one, and demand/hope its fixed. But what if you want the V8, they are all out. We wont get another. The only option is used

To me spending 2.5K at 80K as preventative maintenance is OK. I am doing my part to keep the engine from blowing up. You could just keep doing an oil analysis every now and then, and then replace it only when the reports are poor. That way you never replace it, or maybe once.

To each their own I suppose. I will probably keep both when I can find my unicorn. My n54 is well past 100K so it makes little sense selling it. Cant see how the s65 will be more pain than my N54. Unless ofcouse it does blow up. In that case - Oh well WTF!

[Jklad]

Didn't the e46 m3 also have this same/similar issue? Seems like a Bmw problem to me.

[r4dr]

Originally Posted by Jklad

Didn't the e46 m3 also have this same/similar issue? Seems like a Bmw problem to me.

Yes. It's not a BMW problem per se, it's a matter of high-revving NA engines. Something has to wear when you're revving to 8-9000 RPM...

There's a Liqui Moly oil additive that I read about recently and someone had great results with it in their S65. It was an anecdotal account, but they backed it up with both Blackstone reports and a look at the bearings when they pulled them out. They compared xx,000 miles on the bearings without the additive, and the same mileage on the bearings with the additive.

The second set (with the additive running through the system) looked pretty close to new.

Either way, you can get aftermarket parts that are not just a band-aid. I'd much rather have the S65 with bearing problems than an N54 with its own list of problems. Both have their $$ issues, but a high revving V8 is worth all the pain in the world . I say this as an N54 owner...

[r4dr]

Originally Posted by vasillalov

(facepalm)

You guys are crazy. Turner sells upgraded M3 rod bearing kit for under $700.00 and that includes all the hardware, gaskets, etc etc. An experienced shop can get this done under 4 hours of work. So, replacing rod bearings is like $1500 tops.

Tell me how much do your upgraded turbos cost after you buy them, install them, get all the supporting mods for them and tune them?

Don't get me wrong, I love the N54 and I love my 335i, but this post is about as stupid as it gets.

+1. I love how OP is reading random threads and quoting "experienced engine builders" on the Internet. Everyone's an expert on the Internet.