[hotrod2448]

Originally Posted by Orb

The improvements are likely to have diminishing returns for a new design. This is lot effort to get marginal improvements as the stock air box is not that bad. I was tiring to point out the reason there might be good improvements is because the turbos are at its efficiency limits and small pressure drop are hurting power output. You could target any other component in the intake track for reduced pressure drop and get the same results.

Orb

Of course you are going to get to the point of diminishing returns, you always do. First you knock out the big gains then the smaller ones. After you do a tune and exhaust, what next? Currently your choices are pretty much IC, intake or both. Neither of which gives you as much bang for your buck as a flash but, it's the logical progression.

[Gen_E92]

Originally Posted by E90ice

Oh lord! Driver72 is going to have a heart attack!

been waiting for this day forever





jk.

[Orb]

Originally Posted by e90AW335i

I didn't question your background, please don't think I was. I was just supply a link to information that was contrary to what you were stating....

What I am telling you is that deleting the lid filter is as good as deleting the air box from the system, so guess what, there is no pressure drop and quantifies nothing. You can’t quantify an air box with a dyno as this involves compressor efficiency and other parts into system into the test so it highly flawed and in the end you learn nothing. This is really testing 101 and I shouldn't have explain this to so called vendor.

Your kind making something out of nothing so there is realy no point here.

Orb

[e90AW335i]

Originally Posted by Orb

What I am telling you is that deleting the lid filter is as good as deleting the air box from the system, so guess what, there is no pressure drop and quantifies nothing. You can’t quantify an air box with a dyno as this involves compressor efficiency and other parts into system into the test so it highly flawed and in the end you learn nothing. This is really testing 101 and I shouldn't have explain this to so called vendor.

Your kind making something out of nothing so there is realy no point here.

Orb

I really don't understand why you don't reply over there as well, that way other people can comment and discuss with you what they think is going on....

[Orb]

Originally Posted by hotrod2448

Of course you are going to get to the point of diminishing returns, you always do. First you knock out the big gains then the smaller ones. After you do a tune and exhaust, what next? Currently your choices are pretty much IC, intake or both. Neither of which gives you as much bang for your buck as a flash but, it's the logical progression.

No question...IC for sure. The pressure drop is not small so it is good place to hit first. It should give the best bang for the buck other than cat back exhaust.

The flash or PROcede in our car get good gain until the compressor efficiency nose dives which is extremely non linear when it does. Reducing pressure drop in a few places is the difference in making safe power as the compressor doesn’t see increased boost just the inlet manifold at the head.

You are always chasing the weakest link here and this need to be identified before improvements can be made. In this case, as we get above 14 PSI boost nothing is going to help much until you reduce pressure drop because the turbo are out of there optimal range.

Orb

[Vince@ V K Motorwerks]

So orb, What would you say the next best mod would be after just a tune? exhaust, dp's, IC, CAI?

[Orb]

Originally Posted by O-cha

I've always thought the whole "The airbox is a huge restriction and costs about 40hp" crap shiv always spewed was a BS cover story. But I don't think it's not worth any gains at all.

I am no Shiv fan but he might be right by the gains he state which is about 20 whp. It would be BS by omission of the facts but then I guess people would know that he is likely over spooling the turbo if he did come clean.

Orb

[WilyB]

Originally Posted by Orb

I wouldn't consider a foam filter for this box either.

So no ITG filter?

[Orb]

Originally Posted by WilyB

So no ITG filter?

I would say it wouldn't be the best approach using a foam filter but I can't say if it would be lot worse because I have no information about it. The air box design will do better with a pleated filter at higher flows and that a given. I'm pretty sure the BMC filter might do well but I would stick to replacing the stock filter every 5000 miles.

I would keep my eye on the development of streamline filter. They have a history of spending a fair amount of development on their designs and they back up thier claims with real data

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89706

[midlife]

orb,

your name was metioned on the other site in a thread just like this one.
....why not check it out?

Originally Posted by Orb

I would say it wouldn't be the best approach using a foam filter but I can't say if it would be lot worse because I have no information about it. The air box design will do better with a pleated filter at higher flows and that a given. I'm pretty sure the BMC filter might do well but I would stick to replacing the stock filter every 5000 miles.

I would keep my eye on the development of streamline filter. They have a history of spending a fair amount of development on their designs and they back up thier claims with real data

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89706

[Flat Out 32]

BMW Performance intake!?!? When will this become available? Any pics?

[stillclaimndp]

why don't you just dyno, then put on a cone filter intake, and dyno again...

[v2bling]

Thats why i been reading articles of porsche and other big company tuners using upgraded CAIs and intakes on modded turbos like 911... Here is a copy paste of a article about creating 900hp with mod upgrades. One of the mods include.... Guess what? CAI!!! So i think your theory gos bye bye out window. CAI is worth it!

--------------------------------------------------------------------

"Famous Porsche tuner 9ff has created a performance package for the already highly-strung Carrera GT. Their new kit increases the power output of the regular car by an amazing 300hp up to 912hp. To achieve this result, the 9ff engineers added two large turbos, new camshafts and less restrictive exhaust manifolds. The exhaust is then sent through the custom free-flowing exhaust system, which includes a unique 9ff muffler with valve system and end-pipes plus a new cat-converter.

In addition to the exhaust system, 9ff added a totally revised induction system with modified air filter and cold-air intake. Finally, to make sure the engine can run with all the changes, the ECU required an upgrade. 9ff doesn’t stop there; the tuner offers an entire catalogue of options including visual and aerodynamic upgrades as well as all the engine mods. If only we had the cash."

Via Autoblog.it

* I feel restriction either from intake or exhaust.. Tomm i will know for sure just by feel if its there or not. I am having stett intake installed.. Im Picking it up tomm

[rambino]

Im really skeptical of that the pleat direction of the panel filter will make a difference. I remember when I had my e46 M3, there were countless threads discussing Streamline filters, with the directional vortex flow, vs KN , vs factory air straightener, or ground control gizmo. etc.. in the end i tried them all and lost power. best result was just to put a KN panel filter in the stock box.

Im sure the KN flows more air whereas the stock is more restrictive. I do believe also that the gains are very minimal if any. I also think the stock box has some restrictions due to the tubing lengths, resonator etc...

Ultimatley I dont think were really going to see to much gains with or without filters from BMC, KN, Streamline etc.. and if so it will be quite minimal.. I for one am happy with my KN, it sounds like it sucks a bit more air, throttle is a tad bit better.. overall im happy..

[Bubbles]

Originally Posted by Orb

I would say it wouldn't be the best approach using a foam filter but I can't say if it would be lot worse because I have no information about it. The air box design will do better with a pleated filter at higher flows and that a given. I'm pretty sure the BMC filter might do well but I would stick to replacing the stock filter every 5000 miles.

I would keep my eye on the development of streamline filter. They have a history of spending a fair amount of development on their designs and they back up thier claims with real data

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89706

+1
Around 5-6k the stock air filter needs replacing (at least in these parts)

[midlife]

Originally Posted by Orb

I would say it wouldn't be the best approach using a foam filter but I can't say if it would be lot worse because I have no information about it. The air box design will do better with a pleated filter at higher flows and that a given. I'm pretty sure the BMC filter might do well but I would stick to replacing the stock filter every 5000 miles.

I would keep my eye on the development of streamline filter. They have a history of spending a fair amount of development on their designs and they back up thier claims with real data

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89706

if i go the the new UR cai, with the k&n cone filter (which is inside the bumper with fresh air hitting it semi directly),
u do not replace the filter every 5,000 miles do you?

i think u just clean it with their kit every 4,000 miles or so correct??

thanks

[Orb]

Originally Posted by midlife

if i go the the new UR cai, with the k&n cone filter (which is inside the bumper with fresh air hitting it semi directly),
u do not replace the filter every 5,000 miles do you?

i think u just clean it with their kit every 4,000 miles or so correct??

thanks

Considering were the filter is I would clean it every 4000 miles.

Orb

[radgator1]

I sold my K&N filter yesterday in anticipation of getting the UR CAI so took it out when I got home from work last night and put my OEM air filter back in which has around 15K miles on it. I vaccumed it out before I put it back in, but I do have to say the throttle feels a little more sluggish on my ride in today than it did on the ride home yesterday and the sound is more muffled. At least as far as butt dyno goes I think the K&N is superior to OEM or at least a K&N with 2K miles is better than an oem with 15k miles on it.

On a side note, I had a pretty fun run-in with a guy in a real loud modded el camino last night. We left a light together not racing but I am just staying a little ahead of him. I guess he is used to being the first one accross the intersection so I hear him go WOT and see him come up fast on my right side so I figure I'll play a little since there is no one in front of us. We only went for a few seconds from around 20 up to about 75 so nothing crazy. I was creeping away and he seemed to get pissed because when we shut it down he slowed way down and stayed far behind then took the first turn on a small side street