[kwaked]

I have read them all and found them interesting, thank you.

I believe you have one point that you think puts your opinion forward and that is that DPF's create smaller particles, these smaller particles are as bad if not worse than PM10's.

I agree with you


Common needs to be used though
You completely ignore the fact that DPF's remove 92% of PM2.5's

No matter how many PM2.5's the DPF produces it is still significantly less than if we ran without a DPF


Even if that was not the case, you've not posted any articles, research or challenged the fact that DPF's hold these dangerous particles and release them in areas that's significantly less harmful to us.


This is a massive massive benefit

[TDIwyse]

Originally Posted by kwaked

I have read them all and found them interesting, thank you.

I believe you have one point that you think puts your opinion forward and that is that DPF's create smaller particles, these smaller particles are as bad if not worse than PM10's.

I agree with you


Common needs to be used though
You completely ignore the fact that DPF's remove 92% of PM2.5's

That is not true. I agree they remove ~ 90% of the PM2.5 "mass". They make a very small impact to the particle number of PM2.5 (see post 19), because the overwhelming majority of particles in PM2.5 (as well as PM10) are the ultra fine and nanoparticles.

Originally Posted by kwaked

No matter how many PM2.5's the DPF produces it is still significantly less than if we ran without a DPF

"Many" refers to a particle count. Again, the DPF's are good at reducing mass by primarily reducing the number of large particles, which are MUCH less hazardous, but the measured data linked in previous posts shows very limited impact to how "many" total particles get put out of the vehicle. Since the highest number count of particles are the nano and ultra fine particles, and the measured results from post 19 confirm, the newer Euro 4/5 vehicles are really very, very minimally better, if at all, than a pre DPF Euro 3 vehicle.

Originally Posted by kwaked

Even if that was not the case, you've not posted any articles, research or challenged the fact that DPF's hold these dangerous particles and release them in areas that's significantly less harmful to us.

That is incorrect. See post 17, 19 and 22 as examples.

Also, tailpipe emissions are only part of the particle story... tires and brake dust and road debris... most brake dust occurs during stop and go traffic which is usually in highly populated areas. And stop and go traffic is low/high load intensive (lost of coasting/idling and accelerating) and post 19 shows near equal particle number pollution from Euro 3 without DPF vs Euro 4/5 with DPF.

And I posted documented analysis of ultra fine and nanoparticles being 6500% more toxic than the larger particles.

Can you post some peer reveiwed papers showing that particles above 2000nm are more harmfull than particles <1000nm? Would be interesting for you to post some examples that backup the things you keep repeating but are contradicted by the studies I've posted :-)

[robnitro]

The larger particles precipitate to the ground quicker. Ultra fine ones stay in the air for a long time.

There is something called the weekend effect. In Los Angeles, they found that the smog and pm were higher on the weekends. On the weekends there is much more gasoline use than diesel because industry is much less busy on weekends.

Oh and we haven't touched the problems of an older dpf or some new ones on heavy duty trucks. When my f350 super duty at work starts a regen.... You can see the smoke. I asked a contractor who has a Cummins work truck about it, and he said that's how his regen goes too.

These aren't old trucks, 2 years old at most,!

Regen doesn't happen outside of the city if you drive mostly in the city. My x5 would regen even when I am waiting for a stop light etc. It depends on where you drive. The funniest was when I was driving home from a trip, 2 hours and it started regen 5 minutes from home on city traffic. Bmw.....

[335dsleeper]

Originally Posted by kwaked

Imagine if every diesel car, truck, bus on the road removed their DPF's, we would all be screwed.

Really? Or would it be much like pre-2008?

[floydarogers]

Originally Posted by kwaked

...
Imagine if every diesel car, truck, bus on the road removed their DPF's, we would all be screwed. ...

Originally Posted by 335dsleeper

Really? Or would it be much like pre-2008?

Sleeper is "more" correct. One thing that Kwaked neglects is that 2007 was the year that diesel went from 200 ppm Sulfur to 15 ppm Sulfur. Much of the reduction in visible black smoke (mostly PM10?) is due to that: it's the reason that people can get by with DPF/DOC deletes without drawing the attention of the State Patrol.

Nevertheless, it would be "bad" for everyone to remove their DPF.

[dmanb2b]

I don't want to get in the middle of this but my home, my neighbor's home and likely a good portion of homes in the US rely on oil heat. AFAIK, none of them have DPF's and spew soot all over suburbs. With temps in low teens, my household burned 178 gallons of #2 heating oil in 24 days and automotive repair shops are allowed to burn used motor oil to heat shops. The EPA needs to do some homework if it really wanted to reduce pollution.

[dr_dirtg]

This was a very interesting read.

I have kept my DPF all this time because my moral side.

However, and I'm not sure why kwacked just doesn't understand this, it's very clear to me how it is actually worse!

Doesn't matter How much PM 10 or PM 2.5 DPF's remove, just 8% of < PM2.5 is WORSE than 92% of > PM 2.5.
that's the part you are missing , kwacked.

I'll begin the dpf removal process tomorrow, for the sake of my family, neighbour's and my very own health. On the molecular level.

[floydarogers]

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-43211946

Dusseldorf and Stuttgart (and others) banning diesel cars on high NOx days...

[Andy198712]

Originally Posted by floydarogers

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-43211946

Dusseldorf and Stuttgart (and others) banning diesel cars on high NOx days...

Why are they so stupid????

look at people who can't afford a new car, commuting to work to feed a family and working i the city, now they are banned so have to take a much more lengthy trip to work on public transport which would have a knock on effect of things like taking kids to school ect and personal safety. maybe they work shifts and finish late, then have to get the underground at unsocial hours alone....



very valid point above about heating oil!!

Jump on public transport..... mostly powered by diesel!!