[Flamingi]

Interesting article about Mercedes being the first company to offer Level 3 AD. The most important info is Mercedes taking the liability for accidents when the system is activated, this was a big discussion point previously and I hope other auto makers will follow Mercedes direction.

Many companies talked about Level 3 (or even 4), but none backed their words with actions. Teslas Autopilot is still far from reaching even Level 3. And frankly, ever since they switched to Tesla Vision and ditched the Radar/Lidar, their systems got noticeably worse. Now they are just one of many others, but charging twice/thrice the amount for the same features.

In this bubble many people don't think much of the driving assistance systems, but I for one can't wait for such systems to do the work in boring traffic jams. You still can turn them off on the backroads.

https://www.handelsblatt.com/unterne.../28310938.html

Mercedes names prices for autonomous driving system for the first time
04.05.2022 | by Franz Hubik and Felix Holtermann

The Dax Group is equipping the S-Class and EQS with a Level 3 system for the first time worldwide. It costs from 5000 euros - a challenge to Tesla, and not just in terms of price.

Munich, Santa Monica The sun is shining, traffic on Highway 10 is at a standstill. In Santa Monica, California, Mercedes-Benz finds ideal conditions for demonstrating its highly automated driving system. "Drive Pilot works up to 40 miles per hour and only on the highway," explains the test pilot. That's about 64 kilometers per hour.

Within that limited range, the Level 3 system is allowed to and can do much more than Tesla's assistance system called "Autopilot" or the driving aids from BMW and Audi. "You can do your e-mails on the way to work," explains a Mercedes developer. "And on the drive home, you watch YouTube or read. Everything is allowed. And the car drives itself."

Mercedes plans to obtain approval for the Drive Pilot in the U.S. states of California and Nevada by the end of the year. In Germany, the system is already legally available from May 17 as an optional extra on two luxury sedans. The surcharge for this, excluding VAT, is €5,000 for the S-Class and €7,430 for the all-electric EQS, Mercedes has now announced.

The price difference results from the fact that the S-Class, unlike the EQS, is already equipped with a comprehensive driving assistance package as standard. Those who order Mercedes' top model as a new customer can upgrade the Level 3 system accordingly more easily. But even the total for the EQS, which comes to €8,842 including VAT, is still a match for rival Tesla.

The electric carmaker charges 7,500 euros for its "Full Self-Driving" system in Germany, not much less than Mercedes. But the German manufacturer's technology is superior to Musk's. A Tesla never drives completely autonomously; the driver must always actively monitor the traffic situation. The responsibility remains with the human being; it is a level 2-plus system in the five-stage path to a robot car. This is currently the status quo for many suppliers.

In contrast, the S-Class and EQS can drive completely autonomously in phases on German autobahns during traffic jams or gridlocks, in good weather conditions and at a maximum speed of 60 kilometers per hour. In this case, liability is transferred to the automaker for the first time. "This is a quantum leap," says Stefan Bratzel, director of the Center of Automotive Management (CAM) at the University of Applied Sciences in Bergisch-Gladbach. "You can't hang this too low. Mercedes is leading the way here. Tesla and others haven't yet."

Not done with a software update
The technical effort Mercedes is putting into the service, however, is immense. "We are integrating significantly more hardware into the Level 3 vehicles, we have expanded the sensor set here," Gregor Kugelmann, head of driver assistance systems at Mercedes-Benz, told Handelsblatt.

For example, the radiator grille houses a lidar, there is an additional camera at the rear and an antenna module on the roof, which Mercedes uses to tap into the three major navigation satellite systems, Galileo, Glonass and GPS, to locate vehicles with centimeter accuracy. "In addition, there are double backup systems - we're talking about redundancies - in the brakes, steering and onboard network," Kugelmann explains.

The additional components make it clear that Level 3 cannot be activated in the vehicles of existing customers via a software update. Only those who order a new S-Class or EQS with Drive Pilot from mid-May will be able to use the service. In addition, the offer is initially limited to the two luxury sedans. Mercedes does not offer highly automated driving in the GLS or the EQS SUV.

CAM Director Bratzel expects that 30 to 50 percent of S-Class and EQS customers in Germany will add Drive Pilot: "It's a new feature, you can proudly show it to your neighbor." However, he believes that highly automated driving will only become a truly lucrative business for Mercedes when speeds exceed 100 kilometers per hour.

That's exactly what the Stuttgart-based automaker is working on right now. "We want to continuously increase the speed," explains Mercedes developer Kugelmann. "But as soon as you leave the protected congestion zone and are on the open road, the system also has to be able to change lanes safely. That won't be possible without additional sensor technology in the rear of the vehicle." So higher speeds can't simply be unlocked later via software update either.

Graphics card manufacturer Nvidia cooperates
The Drive Pilot is subject to considerable restrictions for the foreseeable future. The system also cannot currently be used in snow, heavy rain and low temperatures. "However, with additional sensor technology, it could be possible in the future to enable driving in dim light or at night, wet roads and temperatures below four degrees, for example," Kugelmann professes.

Mercedes is developing the next generation of Drive Pilot together with U.S. graphics card manufacturer Nvidia. It is likely to be used in mass-produced models such as the A-Class by the middle of the decade. At the same time, Mercedes is intensively discussing whether the sedans and SUVs that the company will launch from 2024 will already be equipped with lidars and additional rear cameras as a precaution, according to company sources.

The advantage of this is that all new cars would then have the necessary technology for Level 3 on board as standard equipment. Customers of the brand with the three-pointed star would then be able to activate the service months or years after purchasing the vehicle for a corresponding fee.
The disadvantage is that the high costs for the mass installation of opulent sensor sets would probably only be recouped with very high activation rates for Drive Pilot. Mercedes is therefore still weighing the options. A final decision could be made later this year.
"Autonomous driving is a central function of the future, you have to pack that into the basic equipment of vehicles at some point," recommends industry expert Bratzel. Not least to be able to compete against Tesla and Chinese newcomers such as Nio or Xpeng.

Tesla CEO Elon Musk sees the software for autonomous driving as the "biggest source of profit" for his company in the future. In his opinion, many in the industry still underestimate the dimensions the whole thing will take on. "Every vehicle will have it in the future," he explained at the beginning of 2022.

Musk does not even want to dwell on a traffic jam pilot, such as the one offered by Mercedes. He believes he will be able to complete a Level 4 system later this year. This would mean that the driver would finally become a passenger and could even sleep while the machine becomes a chauffeur on defined routes.

Most experts consider this plan illusory. Especially since Tesla is already coming under increasing pressure with its current "Autopilot." In recent months, the U.S. transportation regulator NHTSA has repeatedly initiated investigations as a result of safety concerns and called for improvements.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator

[Efthreeoh]

Lots to read, but the move to Manufacturer-liability Level 3 comes with lots of caveats: German Autoban, in traffic jams, just up to 36 MPH, and only in good weather. Big leap. Lol.

Call us back when it's on US roads at real traffic speeds like 80 MPH and teenagers texting their girlfriends on the phone. In the rain...

[br438]

It' funny. I hate with a deep disdain the level of distracted driving that saturates our roadways. It is so dissappointing to have made such progress in vehicle safety... only to have drivers completely tune out.

Autonomous driving is the only solution that I see... and I was not for it for a long time. There just is not enough police force in existence anywhere to enforce cell-phone driving laws. I've loved Driving Assistant Plus in our X3. - used it quite a bit on the way home from PCD under 40mph. It's real, and it works... as long as the lane doesn't fade away. hahaha... hand-on-the-wheel is still very real at 30+mph.

[chassis]

Don’t touch it with a 10 foot pole.

Mercedes’ reliability is poor, to be generous. What if the autonomy system reboots during operation as the latest MBUX system did when launched in the one sixty lemon (167) platform? Resist the temptation to say or think, “this time it will be different”.

Stay away.

[br438]

Originally Posted by chassis

Don’t touch it with a 10 foot pole.

Mercedes’ reliability is poor, to be generous. What if the autonomy system reboots during operation as the latest MBUX system did when launched in the one sixty lemon (167) platform? Resist the temptation to say or think, “this time it will be different”.

Stay away.

Truthfully, this kind of autonomous vehicle might make automotive parts go the way of aviation parts - with immense certification requirments for each part in the system .... if it floats, flies, ...s, or is fully autonomous....$$$$

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by br438

Truthfully, this kind of autonomous vehicle might make automotive parts go the way of aviation parts - with immense certification requirments for each part in the system .... if it floats, flies, ...s, or is fully autonomous....$$$$

Double that number. Ground transportation has far less reaction time and far less avoidance space than aviation and oceanic transport. And neither aircraft or ocean-going vessels are fully autonomous. I worked in both industries for over 2 decades.

Why people believe pilots don't watch their aircraft fly in autopilot or the helmsman who has watch over the bridge of a ship doesn't monitor the sail of the vessel, and think they can do the same and not pay attention while driving their car is just amusing.

[chassis]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Double that number. Ground transportation has far less reaction time and far less avoidance space than aviation and oceanic transport. And neither aircraft or ocean-going vessels are fully autonomous. I worked in both industries for over 2 decades.

Why people believe pilots don't watch their aircraft fly in autopilot or the helmsman who has watch over the bridge of a ship doesn't monitor the sail of the vessel, and think they can do the same and not pay attention while driving their car is just amusing.

Correct, and operators (pilot, helmsman) of autonomous vehicles (aircraft, ships) are highly trained. How highly trained is a 16 year old behind the yoke of an autonomous Tesla?

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by chassis

Correct, and operators (pilot, helmsman) of autonomous vehicles (aircraft, ships) are highly trained. How highly trained is a 16 year old behind the yoke of an autonomous Tesla?

Trained enough to defeat the driver presence detection and make utube video from the back seat.

[///d]

I'm so divided on this...

On one hand I hate how driver skill and common sense is taken away more and more with convenience features like driver assist, rear cameras, lane warning, auto lights etc.

But on the other hand if autonomous systems get good enough the lack of intelligence behind the wheel may not matter.

What a world we live in.

[heavyD^2]

Maybe it differs depending on where you live but I welcome this as there are so many horrible drivers on the road these days. Taking the wheel from them will make my life safer and commute better. I plan on driving myself for as long as I can but I'm totally fine with autonomous systems keeping a large portion of drivers straight in their lane, signalling when turning, changing lanes only when it's clear, braking properly without constant brake tapping, etc.