[feuer]

Originally Posted by panchofarrera

I understand index 12 is the way to go. But I wont be able to absorb that cost anytime soon. And I don't want to damage my engine meanwhile.

The Index 8 come with new seals installed, decoupling elements and capped with an unlimited mileage warranty for 2 years. Is there a legitimate reason not to get these?

Injectors need to be coded for mj=energy and mg/stk(milligram per engine stroke)=mass flow. Do you expect rebuilt/refurbished injector to have the identical values as originally printed on the casing? I certainly don't.

[335e92tx]

Originally Posted by feuer

Not that because I work on cars, but let's take my own n54, build in 4/2008 (so not build in October lol), currently with 92k and 2nd replacement. Linking part failure, any part failure with certain mileage is absurd.

I agree.. to an extent.

But, ill tell you this, I have seen a US engineered part that COULD be designed to fail at 100K or within a certain number of yrs.. consider this..

By design, they know they temp the motor operates at; by design, they know gasket composition.. They could in theory, make a gasket last a specific finite period..

Now for an oil pan gasket, that is steel core and silicon, they could specifically make the silicon of such a thickness that after whatever period of time they wish, there was nothing left but the steel core..

And you know what I have seen on at least 1 3.8 liter US made motor that had an oil pan gasket leak at bing 100K miles, no silicon on the core of the gasket..

Is that casual or causal - can other parts be designed to fail? ?? ? ill leave it to you.. but they have been building cars now for 100+ yrs and they dont build 16M per yr US just bc they like repairing the old ones...

And my first n54 was a 10/06 build.. prob one of the first.

[feuer]

Originally Posted by 335e92tx

I agree.. to an extent.

But, ill tell you this, I have seen a US engineered part that COULD be designed to fail at 100K or within a certain number of yrs.. consider this..

By design, they know they temp the motor operates at; by design, they know gasket composition.. They could in theory, make a gasket last a specific finite period..

Now for an oil pan gasket, that is steel core and silicon, they could specifically make the silicon of such a thickness that after whatever period of time they wish, there was nothing left but the steel core..

And you know what I have seen on at least 1 3.8 liter US made motor that had an oil pan gasket leak at bing 100K miles, no silicon on the core of the gasket..

Is that casual or causal - can other parts be designed to fail? ?? ? ill leave it to you..

And my first n54 was a 10/06 build.. prob one of the first.

I'm former Nummi employee, I know above first hand, and will tell you again, don't link part failures with mileage.

[335e92tx]

Originally Posted by feuer

I'm former Nummi employee, I know above first hand, and will tell you again, don't link part failures with mileage.

it wasnt a hard fast recommendation it was more advice for this specific individual considering what he might be facing from a set of previous empirical points...

YMMV

[langsbr]

Originally Posted by panchofarrera

https://m.ebay.com/itm/6-x-OEM-FUEL-...8/252425179529


Index 8, remanufactured with a 2 year warranty and shipped from the US, also included new seals and decoupling elements. How does that look?

If you get them and they have the teflon seals either not installed, or installed but not with the metal cap - you MUST use the install tool.

I would not remove your injectors at all unless you have that tool, or buy new injectors. Failure to replace the teflon seal is just playing with fire.

You can look up ABR Houston and he describes the issues that can occur. If that seal is not perfect, it can melt a hole in the cylinder head. Too much risk for a 2.50 part.

I would get the Index 8s over the index 9s, but I just replaced 3 of my index 8s that were bad, so take that for what it's worth.

[panchofarrera]

Originally Posted by langsbr

If you get them and they have the teflon seals either not installed, or installed but not with the metal cap - you MUST use the install tool.

I would not remove your injectors at all unless you have that tool, or buy new injectors. Failure to replace the teflon seal is just playing with fire.

You can look up ABR Houston and he describes the issues that can occur. If that seal is not perfect, it can melt a hole in the cylinder head. Too much risk for a 2.50 part.

I would get the Index 8s over the index 9s, but I just replaced 3 of my index 8s that were bad, so take that for what it's worth.

The index 8 remanufactured injectors come with capped tips according to the seller.

Originally Posted by panchofarrera

The index 8 remanufactured injectors come with capped tips according to the seller.

Please don't waste time going with questionable parts.

"Remanufactured" injectors sound like a bad idea all together. You have no idea what they actually did to reman them, if anything. If they did bother to reman them, as already mentioned, the flow values will be a complete mystery. More importantly, who knows whether or not they actually put the seals on correctly, or put new seals on to begin with.

Do you really want to risk losing a head due to shitty parts?

You don't have to go new; there's nothing wrong going with used examples here...buy yourself a seal kit and just buy known good used units; there are plenty in the for sale section on this forum:
http://www.precisionraceworks.com/in...&product_id=78

[panchofarrera]

Ok so it seems like its not worth spending my money on refurbished or remanufactured injectors. In that case, due to budget constraints, what is your input on changing 1 bank first with new index 12's(maybe it'll fix the issue if it happens to be one or two bad injectors causing the problem), and then replacing bank 2 in a couple of months?

Thank you all for the responses and advice

[langsbr]

I see no issues with that. I was getting 02 codes and bad fuel trims on bank 2 and replaced just that bank (with known good used injectors) and no more issues.

[panchofarrera]

Originally Posted by langsbr

I see no issues with that. I was getting 02 codes and bad fuel trims on bank 2 and replaced just that bank (with known good used injectors) and no more issues.

Were your old injectors Index 10 or lower? I've heard that you should not mix Index 12 with anything under index 10. Is this true only between banks?

[feuer]

Originally Posted by panchofarrera

Were your old injectors Index 10 or lower? I've heard that you should not mix Index 12 with anything under index 10. Is this true only between banks?

Neither is true.

[joeinsd]

Subbing for myself.

[Ballistic]

Again; DON'T buy remanufactured injectors from anywhere. They CANNOT be cleaned (ultrasonic), Needs very specialized equipment to remanufacture them (if even possible at all) and as stated earlier by someone else; The flow of the injectors is a total mistery.

[panchofarrera]

Ok I know this thread hasn't been too active for the last couple of days. But here is my last question. I want some realistic honest advice: .

1. I found BRAND NEW oem index 9 injectors for sale here in the US with a 3 year warranty for $40 each.

I know index 9 are the worst of the batch. But since these are brand new, shouldn't they fix my problem at least for a couple of years? I drive very little and I dont have a problem getting index 12 later on to change them to prevent further issues. I just need this problem gone now.

Will I likely find that these index 9 come defective from factory or do they fail with time?

[panchofarrera]

Originally Posted by Ballistic

Again; DON'T buy remanufactured injectors from anywhere. They CANNOT be cleaned (ultrasonic), Needs very specialized equipment to remanufacture them (if even possible at all) and as stated earlier by someone else; The flow of the injectors is a total mistery.

These claim to be brand new OEM index 9 injectors:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/-/332396129681

If they come capped, would it be a good idea to buy them to solve my issue for at least the next year or two? That way I can avoid further damage to the heads and change to index 12 later on.

[arhoads335i]

you should probably just sell the car if you can not pay for new injectors, more problems are down the road that cost just as much if more

[panchofarrera]

Problem Solved! Here is what I learned, I hope it is useful. Remember, this is what I was able to experience in my specific case, if I am wrong about anything please let me know:


1) Our N54's come with poorly designed injectors that WILL fail eventually
2) Refurbished injectors are a risky item to buy. They could be far off their factory printed specs (which are coded in the ECU), and could have swollen seals that will fall off upon installation and perforate your cylinder head.
3) Our N54's are famous for slightly rough cold starts and sometimes idle. Not something to worry about according to my BMW specialist. Some light and very rare vibrations are normal for our engines. HOWEVER! If you are getting substantial misfires in the morning, along with gas smell, or constant rough idling with poor gas mileage, time to check your components (Procedure described bellow).
4) If you are experiencing any sort of misfire on this engine do the following trouble shooting order to avoid spending money on unnecessary items:

• Step 1: Check for codes. If misfires are isolated on only one or some cylinders, swap coils to see if the code follows the move. Procede to do the same with spark plugs if that doesn't work.
• Step 2: Identify if all of your misfires are on a single bank. If they are, check your O2 sensors, bank-specific vacuum lines and such.
• Step3: If your misfires are in all cylinders, or several cylinders not depending on coils or spark plugs, use INPA or any other BMW software to reset your adaptations. See how it responds.
• Step 4: It is time to check your valves for carbon deposits. Remove the intake manifold to visually inspect the valves. If they are covered in carbon, it is time to clean them. I cleaned them with carb cleaner and a brass brush using my drill. However, walnut blasting is the best way to do this.
• Step 5: Suspect your injectors! Check the index #. Anything under index 10 is likely to fail. pull out your spark plugs and smell them for fuel residue. This will reveal if you have leaky injectors. You can also use a wooden stick or long flat head to listen to each injector ticking with the car on to see if any of them is firing differently.
• Step 6: if you have new spark plugs, good coils, clean valves, new injectors, and have checked your O2 sensors. You can check the following components:

1) Injector coding values (sometimes they fluctuate after inputing them. +-0.02 fluctuation is ok.)
2) MAP sensor
3) Throttle body cleaning
4) vacuum lines
5) fuel pumps. especially HPFP.
6) Engine mounts



In my case, the problem ended up being my new spark plugs (believe it or not). I got a pack of 6 BOSCH OEM fro amazon for a suspiciously low price and was getting misfires. I did ALL THE THINGS I mentioned before and the problem was not fixed until I changed them for dealership BOSH plugs. I guess at least my car won't have problems for a while!

Please let me know if you have questions, or anything to add.

[langsbr]

Only thing I would change:

2) Refurbished injectors are a risky item to buy. They could be far off their factory printed specs (which are coded in the ECU), and could have swollen seals that will fall off upon installation and perforate your cylinder head.

Refurbished injectors are risky because they are just used. They are not truly 'refurbished' in any way.

As for the seals, the issue is that they must be new. Refurb injectors do not come with the compression caps typically. If you install a new seal, it is much wider than i needs to be and won't seal properly unless you have the proper tool that compresses it. Once compressed, you have about 5 minutes (most say 1 min) to install them. If you re-use an old seal, you run the risk that the seal won't be proper, and hot combustion gasses can get past the seal. Those hot gasses can melt the cylinder head at the injector hole, requiring expensive repair.

[N54sDUSTxi]

Originally Posted by FCobra94

Please don't waste time going with questionable parts.

"Remanufactured" injectors sound like a bad idea all together. You have no idea what they actually did to reman them, if anything. If they did bother to reman them, as already mentioned, the flow values will be a complete mystery. More importantly, who knows whether or not they actually put the seals on correctly, or put new seals on to begin with.

Do you really want to risk losing a head due to shitty parts?

You don't have to go new; there's nothing wrong going with used examples here...buy yourself a seal kit and just buy known good used units; there are plenty in the for sale section on this forum:
http://www.precisionraceworks.com/in...&product_id=78

Yes, agreed. Eat the cost on these.

[fozzydj]

These are my plugs guys:



Got a full set of index 9’s in mine and defo some leaking (smell fuel on a morning and slight missfire when cold).

I cant affordto do a full set at once but from the left: 2 (sooty), 3 (wet) and 6 (wet) would be a good start for 3 to change?

Could I buy 3 index 12’s?

[kazbek1]

Originally Posted by feuer

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...SABEgJWEPD_BwE
I have seen them sell for $115 each but for $130 with lifetime warranty is impossible to beat.

Hate to revive an old thread but 2017 was a beautiful time to buy new injectors...