[Peter Morrin]

Have any members done a front sub-woofer in the E-90. I am looking at doing a front sub-woofer install to replace the under-seat woofers. There is an excellent You-tube video from PSS Sounds but it is in a later model GT 6. I am curious if any members did one in an E-90, what you chose for your woofer(s) and what volume of enclosure you were able to achieve.

[ctuna]

It won't do you much good and could even cause problems if you have the base system with no amplifier.

[Peter Morrin]

I am planning on a complete bypass of the existing audio system using a Digital Audio Player>DSP>Amps>New Speakers. I plan to use the existing tweeter location and likely the 4" mid-range door location but I will mount the new driver to the door rather than the door panel. The doors will be carefully deadened.

I have the 8" OEM Logic 7 under-seat mid-woofers, but my research suggests that the location and semi-sealed/semi-vented confirguration compromises the mid-base performance from 70-130 Hz. PS Sounds in the UK did a sealed 10 inch Focal woofer in a 16 litre fibreglass enclosure in the passenger footwell of a later model GT6 and seemed to address this problem area. I believe he did keep the underseat drivers as well.

I know many people open up a whole in the floor and run the 8" mid-woofer in infinite baffle venting into the space between the underside of the floor and the underbody panel. I am hoping to avoid that degree of structural cutting.

The other typical mid-base area would be the kick panels, but I believe the E90 would be tricky with the FRM module, OBD port, and hood release on the drivers side. Mine is also a manual transmission and I won't give up the dead pedal space.

I am looking for better sounding alternatives at a lower price than the high end drop-in solutions. I don't mind the fabrication and am not afraid to modify panels in a 17 year old car. I do want to keep the dash, A-pillar, and upper doors stock looking to not draw attention to theives.

[Onizukachan]

There’s no reason to. The underseats sound like they are top of dash whe correctly ta’d.
The drums in the opening sequence on In A Big Country are 5 kicks right to left atop the dash, with factory underseats.

[Peter Morrin]

What DSP are you using with your system? How much power are you running to the OEM underseat subs?

[Onizukachan]

L7 and stock L7 amp.

But I’ve achieve the same with match amp on hifi cars with SWS underseats too.

If you ditch the L7 door and dash speakers for f30 hifi ones, and take out the decomposing foam under the mesh grills, the f30s are a LOT are a lot lot cleaner and your ears will be fooled by the harmonics into thinking amd hearing that the subs are in dash.


Note, the rear speakers don’t leave thread for the nuts, so I used e6000 to glue them to the door cards, and leave the l7 tweeters disconnected.

front will barely get 1/2 turn but it’s enough. Front hifi Tweeters drop in, so does dash mid.


Call it $60 and under 2 hours install time and it almost completely fixes all the issues caused by those damn resonant aluminum cones ringing, which in turn lets the dsp actually sound right. Fade about 2-3 dots forward and turn up the 2k and 5 k a hair as well as the 100 and 200 hz.

Still wish the left front had a few m/s more delay but overall, it’s pretty dang nice now.
They really did a great job with the ta on the L7 though I would have slightly changed a couple of xover points the wider bandwidth and non resonance of the f30 hifi helps out there.

overall it’s a solid 9/10 and my 40+ hour dsp tuned match 7 w sws f31 was a 9.6/10.

I’ve heard few cars that could “Match” it. *dad jokes*

Edit:
But seriously, the L7 was so sonically inferior I was about ready to drop $1600 on a mobridge.
Then I did the f30 hifis in it and I’m content for now. I can run it wide open on brass heavy music with no ear fatigue, listen to 90s dance and hip hop, beachboys pet sounds, orchestral, it all sounds good from passsode amd great from behind the wheel.

[Peter Morrin]

Ok, Really interesting reply. I have not done anything yet, so options abound. I am not a heavy base guy nor do I need it super loud. My main critical listening is driving 12 hours a day on the interstate at 80 mph. I want to hear the music, but not damage what is left of my hearing.

I like the OEM interface (although it looks like I have dying pixels). I have the CD changer, but could likely implement some thing to give me decent acces from my phone. Either way, I am not really looking to change the head unit.

I have some good quality 2-way and 3-way component sets and a bunch of decent amps from days gone by. I do not have a DSP (yet) so that would be the first requirement if I ditch the BMW MOST based system.

This need only be a "driver seat tune", but I would like to explore your OEM proposal.

As I understand it:
Replace the Logic 7 tweeter (sail panel) and 4" door mid range with the equivalent F30 "Hifi" speakers, make minor adjustments to the equilization settings in the existing Logic 7 system, and be done with it? I am not familiar with the stereo offerings for the F30. Do I look for "F30 HiFi Speakers"? Did you do anything with the underseat subs?

[Onizukachan]

Correct, all over eBay you can find “f30 hifi speakers” as sets of 5 (4 door mids plus center) plus the two tweeters included. The center has a sort of yellow Kevlar-ish colored cone when looking at pics. If it’s grey they’ve been sitting exposed to sun and water, dont buy that set.


Doors fit on the door card mounts and studs perfectly, but e90 had the ears at the face of the speaker ie next to door card, and f30s had them mounted farther back from face. The rear e90 studs are thus just a mm too short to let the nuts screw on while the fronts will barely squeeze on.

I’m still running the L7 underseats and the factory L7 electrostatic/flatpanel square rear roof speakers.


FYI There are only two ways to do any sort of dsp/amp, etc when you have L7 because it is MOST bus with no analog input wiring in the harness.
The (near) plug n play Mobridge 8.1.1 most amp for $1600 plus pnp harness from technic to feed the amp outputs back to the original speaker harness

Or recoding head to HiFi and running new twisted pair audio out lines from the radio quad lock to the rear cubby area and then connecting those to a standalone DSP (helix etc)+amps, or to a match 10 DSP amp and then back into the L7 speaker harness via the above mentioned technic harness.


Based on your stated goals, it’s worth the $60 to try this “budget OEM+ fix” first, and hope I was of help!

[ctuna]

If you are interested in a Quality Sound aftermarket for the speakers and amp is the way to go . Complicated if you have Logic 7 system but a Base system and or a Hi Fi system offers a fairly easy upgrade path.

I tried running my Hi Fi system with just the stock speakers and and aftermarket amp it did vastly improve the doors but the floor where still
way muddy with no pretense.

BMW stereo types
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=352586
http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...2&d=1266451970
http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...2&d=1260829447
http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...1&d=1209780865
http://bmwcoders.com/forum/3-er-8/bm...1-e92-e93-291/
http://technicpnp.com/menuDiagrams/d...e90_92_93.html
http://www.musicarnw.com/page-2/
http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...3&d=1169133185
http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...1&d=1209780605
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=641323
http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...4&d=1278871872
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=343673
https://www.bimmerfest.com/threads/e...n-752.1275694/

base system wiring pre/post 3/09
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...tDpLJPcGkw_ui_
Base System Guide
http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...5&d=1493273253

I have been in the newer model 3 series with Hi FI and if anything the sound system was worse than what
was in the E9x series. Hard for me to believe the speakers are better in that system.

[Onizukachan]

Originally Posted by ctuna

If you are interested in a Quality Sound aftermarket for the speakers and amp is the way to go . Complicated if you have Logic 7 system but a Base system and or a Hi Fi system offers a fairly easy upgrade path.

I have been in the newer model 3 series with Hi FI and if anything the sound system was worse than what
was in the E9x series. Hard for me to believe the speakers are better in that system.

And yet they indeed are, the lack in the f30s is the poor amplification and no dsp, and the less than stellar underseats. The speakers have excellent excursion and neutral tonality, playing even as low as 90hz with 60+ watts when not constrained by factory amp.

Stock hi fi f30 system is indeed a bit worse than e90 L7, but The lack in the L7 is the absolute shite harsh metal speakers.


Combine the L7 amp/ dsp with the better f30 speakers and together they are a lot lot better.

[ctuna]

Are you confusing Hi Fi and L7 speakers ac cross these models.
Sounds like you are saying Hi Fi door speaks in the F series are better
than Hi Fi speakers in an e90.
I would agree in the E90 the door speakers are better than the floor
speakers in a Hi Fi system and noticeable with a better amplifier, but they are
not even close to what aftermarkets can deliver.

[Onizukachan]

Hifi speakers in f30 are better speakers than L7 speakers in e90. Can’t say it anymore plainly.
I’ve A-B’d them personally.

If you want to do audiofrogs with mobridge sure, or OG jbl gti 603 with mobridge, sure.

I did the speaker swap myself. I have frost hand experience and I did it in stages to listen to difference between.
It’s much better sq with f30 hifi speaker (same impedance) than the OEM L7 speakers. Hell jsut replacing the damn center with f30 hifi makes one hell of a difference in imaging. The L7s are really harsh and distort at higher excursion/volume.

With L7 mode off (as I run it) it is still TA’d to driver but for a dash height and width soundstage. Passenger doesn’t get the imaging.
If they gave the left front a few ms more delay, it could have been mirror width to mirror width stage. And I wish it had about double the power. But for what OP is looking for, this is the best value benefit per $ out there, and if it isn’t enough, go mobridge.




If you are looking for better SQ in an L7, less harsh, cleaner, better imaging, less fatiguing to listen to, instead of spending hundreds on bimmerbav speakers, or 2 grand on an amp,
Take the foam out of the mesh grills and put in the f30 hifi speakers amd front tweeters, unplug rear door tweeters. Add a little fade front and a little eq

They pair extremely well, have NO cone artifacting (unlike L7s) are not harsh nor sibilant, sound more natural, and the L7 amps still mediocre output naturally prevents you from overdriving them.

[Peter Morrin]

Firstly to both Ctuna and Onizukachan thank you to your replies to my thread.

As stated I have not modified the sound system in my E90 yet. I do ultimately plan to go the full aftermarket speakers/DSP/Amps route and ditch the MOST system OEM head unit but.... I am not there yet.

The proposal to try the F30 Hifi speakers for minimal cost is worthy of a test.

I have a couple questions for you both:

I currently have some Vifa soft dome tweeters. My intent was to install them in the existing sail panels. Should I add a capicitor to protect it or rely on the existing L7 system?

I plan on sound deadening the doors. Is there any benefit to mounting the 4" mid to a solid door baffle rather than the flimsey door panel especially given the issues with the E90 mounting studs being short for the F30 drivers?

I understand the suggestion to disconnect the rear door tweeters. Is there benefit to keeping the rear door mids? My long term intent was to have a 3 way front without any rear fill.

Are there any low cost tweaks to the underseat speakers? In my ultimate plan, I don't think I will use them, so I don't want to spend much cash on them at this stage.

I am currently running the L7 recommending "tune". Any recommendations to changes for the F30 drivers?

Thank you both.

[Onizukachan]

The f30s are softdomes so no need to use the vifas, and they have a bass blocker capacitor on the tweeter lead built in. L7 is not active tweeters, but passive as on other bmws.

When you get them in, bump the 2k amd 5k as well as 100-200 above recommended L7 amd nudge fader forward 2-3 dots, but ultimately let your ear be your guide.


I paired SWS with my f30s in the f31 but that was after doing the match to have the needed power. They go deeper cleaner, but not as high amd are less efficient than the L7s. So until you do change the amp I wouldn’t mess with them.

I haven’t seen a need to change them out amd I run it as loud as amp will go, stillwith no cone distortion (according to my Apple Watch it’s 105db, my f31 did 110 on the same watch so more power helps!)

[Peter Morrin]

I just checked Ebay and the 4 F30 mids for the doors, two tweeters for the sail panels, and a single mid for the centre channel can be purchased for $70.

As regards the mids in the front doors; I am willing to sound-deaden and mount the mid-range to a solid baffle rather than the door card. Are there any drawbacks to doing this?

Are there any tweaks to mounting the tweeters that are worth doing>

I am going to try this suggestion and get back to the group. I personally feel the L7 sound system is not that bad. This perhaps reflects the state of my hearing, but this proposal is certainly budget friendly and worthy of a try.

[ctuna]

You can buy the BMW tweeter pods for something like 35 buck each if you don't already have them.

connectors
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...9&postcount=19
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ower+Connector
connectors1
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...9&postcount=19

[Peter Morrin]

Thank you for the tweeter pod/window trim refernce numbers. My car has them as part of the Logic 7 system, but knowing where to go for replacements is ideal.

My car has developed much more wind noise at the drivers window weather seal. I am guessing it is more the outside seal, ranther than the inner seal. Has anyone had any experience replacing the door seals and is this an easy DIY or better left to a professional?