[Ilma]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

It has a lot more to do with the 4-6 degrees of extra timing advance the new PROcede maps induce during off-boost conditions.

Shiv

Shiv:

I recall the same comments about improved throttle response were initially made when torque target logic was introduced.

I got the impression this effect was due to less throttle plate closure.

Is this still the case?

Does the additional timing advance at idle just build upon the initial concept or is it something entirely different?

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Ilma

Shiv:

I recall the same comments about improved throttle response were initially made when torque target logic was introduced.

I got the impression this effect was due to less throttle plate closure.

Is this still the case?

Does the additional timing advance at idle just build upon the initial concept or is it something entirely different?

It's a completely different concept. The torque targeting logic effects how the engine responds to the onset of boost. ie, does it flutter it's throttle in protest or happily keep it wide open. This improves on-boost torque response significantly.

The extra timing advance effects the off-boost torque of the engine by improving it's thermal efficiency. This is why we can get 10% better fuel economy and better off-boost performance. And since this is where the car drives 95% of the time, it's arguably more important. Although maybe not as dramatic/fun as the benefits of torque targeting

FWIW, my car gets 40-42mpg during a 65mph cruise with these new features.

Shiv

[SfValley335i]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

FWIW, my car gets 40-42mpg during a 65mph cruise with these new features.

Shiv

Glad to know I wasnt going crazy.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by SfValley335i

Glad to know I wasnt going crazy.

Nope. And it gets right around 45mpg when cruising at 55mph. Outrageous. Direct Injection has HUGE benefits when you aren't limited by NOx emissions.

Shiv

[inthemiddle]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Nope. And it gets right around 45mpg when cruising at 55mph. Outrageous. Direct Injection has HUGE benefits when you aren't limited by NOx emissions.

Shiv

yea.. i saw 48-50mpg at a steady 37 mph in 5th gear (and still responsive enoufh for casual driving)... just cruising for a while... (at least once the car is warmed up... i think partly my mileage sucks cause it's cold for half my commute every day... )...... i'm pretty sure it was dead flat there too... if not it was only like 0.5% downhill... .

[WOPALX]

Originally Posted by mmmotornutz

Yea stock does feel kind of weak and blah compared to having a tune. Must be the lack of boost.

I was not referring to the difference in raw power, of course that is immediate noticed when moving from tuned to stock. What I was referring to is the difference in throttle response when off boost. The new maps just make the car drive much better when driving through town (not on boost).

Anyway I'm be running tuneless this weekend as I am lending a mate with a 135 my Procede so he can have his own taste test (he is presently stock).

[mmmotornutz]

Originally Posted by WOPALX

I was not referring to the difference in raw power, of course that is immediate noticed when moving from tuned to stock. What I was referring to is the difference in throttle response when off boost. The new maps just make the car drive much better when driving through town (not on boost).

Anyway I'm be running tuneless this weekend as I am lending a mate with a 135 my Procede so he can have his own taste test (he is presently stock).

Ah I see. Ditto.

[mmmotornutz]

What is everyones overall mpg for each tank?

[Ilma]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

It's a completely different concept. The torque targeting logic effects how the engine responds to the onset of boost. ie, does it flutter it's throttle in protest or happily keep it wide open. This improves on-boost torque response significantly.

The extra timing advance effects the off-boost torque of the engine by improving it's thermal efficiency. This is why we can get 10% better fuel economy and better off-boost performance. And since this is where the car drives 95% of the time, it's arguably more important. Although maybe not as dramatic/fun as the benefits of torque targeting

Shiv

Ahhhh, ok.

This may seem like a silly question but how do you define boost onset.

For instance, when I just drive normally around town my boost gauge rarely goes into positive pressure and just reads as less vacuum.

But I still regard having less vacuum to be a form of boost pressure. It may not read higher than atmospheric pressure but I figure since there is less vacuum on the gauge this must mean that the turbos are feeding the intake faster than the pistons can suck it all in.

How do you define the line between on-boost and off-boost in terms of readings on the boost gauge?

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Ilma

Ahhhh, ok.

This may seem like a silly question but how do you define boost onset.

For instance, when I just drive normally around town my boost gauge rarely goes into positive pressure and just reads as less vacuum.

But I still regard having less vacuum to be a form of boost pressure. It may not read higher than atmospheric pressure but I figure since there is less vacuum on the gauge this must mean that the turbos are feeding the intake faster than the pistons can suck it all in.

How do you define the line between on-boost and off-boost in terms of readings on the boost gauge?

The line is right at 0psi. So anything under 0psi is off-boost and anything above is on-boost

Where torque targeting comes into play is during that sudden swing from vacuum to on-boost. Where the ignition advance comes into play is when the needle is below 0psi. Although we still have some advance dialed in up to 3-4psi at lower engine speeds.

Shiv

[Ilma]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

The line is right at 0psi. So anything under 0psi is off-boost and anything above is on-boost

Where torque targeting comes into play is during that sudden swing from vacuum to on-boost. Where the ignition advance comes into play is when the needle is below 0psi. Although we still have some advance dialed in up to 3-4psi at lower engine speeds.

Shiv

Great to hear!

Thanks.

[FotiosF90M5]

Originally Posted by Gen_E92

looking forward to an unbiased comparison

btw...40 itrader

will do...yeah, ive bought and sold quite a few things. Hopefully the jb3 sells soon. Its now off the car.

[kenneth]

Originally Posted by fotios335i

will do...yeah, ive bought and sold quite a few things. Hopefully the jb3 sells soon. Its now off the car.

How is the boost gauge treating you?

[rbaldwin28]

White smoke should not be an oil leak. Doesn't Coolant burn white. Oil blue and fuel black. Correct if wrong.