[Driver72]

Shiv, forgot to ask...how did the test of your car by Road and Track go?
Did they deem it "worthy" of a write up?

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Driver72

Shiv, forgot to ask...how did the test of your car by Road and Track go?
Did they deem it "worthy" of a write up?

Road and track? I wasn't aware that they were testing our car... We do have a story in European car mag coming up (they are testing the car next weekend). Perhaps this is what you are referring to?

-shiv

[Driver72]

Yeah, I thought you said after the Sunday dyno tune day in LA that you were heading to the Road and Track offices to drop off your car.
Then I asked if they were doing a write up too, and you said, "if they deem it worthy."???

Maybe all the exhaust fumes I was breathing watching the dyno runs got me light headed and delirious.... LOL

[Ryan@Motorwerks]

That would be awesome if R&T did a review of the car

[edgarj]

Originally Posted by 335e90

That would be awesome if R&T did a review of the car

If by 'awesome' you mean BMW designing a check for Procede that adds a voided power train warranty to our extra fast, yeah that would be awesome. There's a big difference between 5% market penetration and 50% in the eyes of an auto maker, and I'd settle for driving a sleeper over bragging rights on a fast 50K+ car with with no warranty. The only difference that the end user will see if Procede becomes synonymous with 335i is bragging rights, followed by deep depression and regret. Shiv is the only person that will benefit, in the short term, if Procede achieves ubiquity. Be careful of what you wish for.

[ArmyBimmerDude]

Originally Posted by edgarj

If by 'awesome' you mean BMW designing a check for Procede that adds a voided power train warranty to our extra fast, yeah that would be awesome. There's a big difference between 5% market penetration and 50% in the eyes of an auto maker, and I'd settle for driving a sleeper over bragging rights on a fast 50K+ car with with no warranty. The only difference that the end user will see if Procede becomes synonymous with 335i is bragging rights, followed by deep depression and regret. Shiv is the only person that will benefit, in the short term, if Procede achieves ubiquity. Be careful of what you wish for.

Got it. thanks

[BzzzBom]

IMO, if the Procede recevied more exposure it would be a good thing for Shiv as well as BMW driving enthusiasts. Shiv's business would increase and BMW would "fast track" some of their OE performance products. In a recent Eurotuner magazine interview with the Coupe's Powertrain Project Manager, Udo Linder said "..the engine is flexible and we could easily give it more power if it became necessary." BMW realizes how much money they are loosing to aftermarket tuners and will probably be offering numerous performance upgrades in the not so distant future. I wouldn't be surprised if the 2008 or 2009 335i had a power increase and OE ECU reflashes for 2007 became available. This is already happening in the MINI world. Many dealerships offer the JCW reflash for non-JCW cars. The next several years should be fun and I am very happy that I own a MINI with tons of mods and have a 335i on order.

[halB]

Originally Posted by BzzzBom

..... I wouldn't be surprised if the 2008 or 2009 335i had a power increase and OE ECU reflashes for 2007 became available.

Are you sure about that, given that the new for 2008 M3 probably "only" makes 410HP and 310 lb-ft, and a lot of people are already questioning whether to save their money and get a 335 instead? Why would BMW make the M3 even less attractive by rushing power increase to the 335?

[bronco]

an M3 is not only about HP and Torque...it is about the whole experience...

[bmwzimmer]

Probably won't happen. It already does 0-60 in 4.8. Let's say they bump the power up to 325hp. That would help it acheive 0-60 in 4.6-4.7. You really think BMW marketing wants the 335i to be this close in performance to a current M5/M6/Z4M? That's just bad marketing. Mabe in 2009/2010 they will consider this but not any time soon.

[BzzzBom]

Originally Posted by halB

Are you sure about that, given that the new for 2008 M3 probably "only" makes 410HP and 310 lb-ft, and a lot of people are already questioning whether to save their money and get a 335 instead? Why would BMW make the M3 even less attractive by rushing power increase to the 335?

If BMW does increase the 335i power in will still be at a safe distance from M3 territory.

[DrM]

Originally Posted by BzzzBom

IMO, if the Procede recevied more exposure it would be a good thing for Shiv as well as BMW driving enthusiasts. Shiv's business would increase and BMW would "fast track" some of their OE performance products. In a recent Eurotuner magazine interview with the Coupe's Powertrain Project Manager, Udo Linder said "..the engine is flexible and we could easily give it more power if it became necessary." BMW realizes how much money they are loosing to aftermarket tuners and will probably be offering numerous performance upgrades in the not so distant future. I wouldn't be surprised if the 2008 or 2009 335i had a power increase and OE ECU reflashes for 2007 became available. This is already happening in the MINI world. Many dealerships offer the JCW reflash for non-JCW cars. The next several years should be fun and I am very happy that I own a MINI with tons of mods and have a 335i on order.

Rapid growth kills more businesses than declining sales. Mass market awareness of the PROcede would not be a good thing.

Shiv may not realize it, but he is VERY lucky. Most of you that have purchased the XEDE/PROcede are "early adopters". You are willing to pay more and put up with more problems than normal "mass market" customers.

As a comparison, how many "normal" customers would be willing to go to Best Buy and purchase a new item, say a Sony Blueray DVD player, where the exact specs aren't final but it should be a great player when it is done (according to Sony PR). You are going to pay a high price for the new player, but it will be worth it when it is finished (according to Sony PR). Then, after you purchase the player, you discover that the player isn't actually in production yet, it is beta testing. You read about other people watching the player and notice numerous problems and changes in the product. After several months, you still don't have your player, but Sony keeps telling people "any day now", which they have been doing for months. How many ordinary consumers would go to that much trouble?? (answer: virtually none)

Mass market knowledge of the PROcede would mean more orders, which means Shiv needs more money to purchase the hardware, manpower to assemble the devices, additional shipping, more people for tech support, etc. They haven't been able to ship the estimated 200 orders that they have already. A large inflow of additional orders at this time would be bad.

Let's all hope that R&T and the rest of the world doesn't hear about the PROcede for a while

[Ryan@Motorwerks]

Originally Posted by edgarj

If by 'awesome' you mean BMW designing a check for Procede that adds a voided power train warranty to our extra fast, yeah that would be awesome. There's a big difference between 5% market penetration and 50% in the eyes of an auto maker, and I'd settle for driving a sleeper over bragging rights on a fast 50K+ car with with no warranty. The only difference that the end user will see if Procede becomes synonymous with 335i is bragging rights, followed by deep depression and regret. Shiv is the only person that will benefit, in the short term, if Procede achieves ubiquity. Be careful of what you wish for.

Even if its published in R&T I don't think a Procede would become a common item on 335s. Theres only a small percentage of people who actually want more performance on there car. Also what kind of check do you think they will make to detect the PROcede?

[BzzzBom]

Originally Posted by DrM

Rapid growth kills more businesses than declining sales. Mass market awareness of the PROcede would not be a good thing.

Shiv may not realize it, but he is VERY lucky. Most of you that have purchased the XEDE/PROcede are "early adopters". You are willing to pay more and put up with more problems than normal "mass market" customers.

As a comparison, how many "normal" customers would be willing to go to Best Buy and purchase a new item, say a Sony Blueray DVD player, where the exact specs aren't final but it should be a great player when it is done (according to Sony PR). You are going to pay a high price for the new player, but it will be worth it when it is finished (according to Sony PR). Then, after you purchase the player, you discover that the player isn't actually in production yet, it is beta testing. You read about other people watching the player and notice numerous problems and changes in the product. After several months, you still don't have your player, but Sony keeps telling people "any day now", which they have been doing for months. How many ordinary consumers would go to that much trouble?? (answer: virtually none)

Mass market knowledge of the PROcede would mean more orders, which means Shiv needs more money to purchase the hardware, manpower to assemble the devices, additional shipping, more people for tech support, etc. They haven't been able to ship the estimated 200 orders that they have already. A large inflow of additional orders at this time would be bad.

Let's all hope that R&T and the rest of the world doesn't hear about the PROcede for a while

Very good point.

[leftcoastman]

Originally Posted by bronco

an M3 is not only about HP and Torque...it is about the whole experience...

To you (and other enthusiasts) it may be, but from a marketing point of view, most people cross shop based on HP and Torque.

With that in mind, the average purchaser thinks "Why pay an extra $20,000 for the same performance?"

[leftcoastman]

Originally Posted by DrM

Rapid growth kills more businesses than declining sales. Mass market awareness of the PROcede would not be a good thing.

Shiv may not realize it, but he is VERY lucky. Most of you that have purchased the XEDE/PROcede are "early adopters". You are willing to pay more and put up with more problems than normal "mass market" customers.

As a comparison, how many "normal" customers would be willing to go to Best Buy and purchase a new item, say a Sony Blueray DVD player, where the exact specs aren't final but it should be a great player when it is done (according to Sony PR). You are going to pay a high price for the new player, but it will be worth it when it is finished (according to Sony PR). Then, after you purchase the player, you discover that the player isn't actually in production yet, it is beta testing. You read about other people watching the player and notice numerous problems and changes in the product. After several months, you still don't have your player, but Sony keeps telling people "any day now", which they have been doing for months. How many ordinary consumers would go to that much trouble?? (answer: virtually none)

Mass market knowledge of the PROcede would mean more orders, which means Shiv needs more money to purchase the hardware, manpower to assemble the devices, additional shipping, more people for tech support, etc. They haven't been able to ship the estimated 200 orders that they have already. A large inflow of additional orders at this time would be bad.

Let's all hope that R&T and the rest of the world doesn't hear about the PROcede for a while

I actually think this is great for Shiv. I've met him and he's a standup guy and deserves all the recognition he can get.

Also the above logic doesn't really hold. Let me give you a few examples. Microsoft puts out crappy products. Version 1.0 is always bug-ridden and horrible. They may not call it Beta, but it's pretty damn Beta. Secondly, Google does the same thing. Gmail and other products of theirs are all labeled Beta but people still use it. Both firms are doing reasonably well. Having followed Xede/Procede's progress, it functions quite well considering it was just conceived recently.

I also don't see how additional orders could be bad for Vishnu Perf in any way/shape/form. Yes, he will have to spend money to ramp up production, but you know, it's not like he's losing money on these units. Any rational businessperson would surely spend X to get X+Y back in profits. (Shiv, if you don't do that, I can provide some management consulting services to you for a fee, hehe).

He can't produce 200 units because he is scaled to produce a small quantity. If I remember right, it's basically him and a few elves in the shop. If he gets 10,000 orders, you bet your pattotie that he'll scale up production quite a bit and probably save a lot on production costs per unit.

With all this publicity, let's just hope this thing isn't traceable!

[OCNYBMW]

I am very sure that BMWNA knows everything there is to know obout PROCEDE. So, IMHO, it doesn't really matter anymore about more exposure as far as BMW is concerned. But for Shiv it would be great for business .

[Corey]

Originally Posted by leftcoastman

To you (and other enthusiasts) it may be, but from a marketing point of view, most people cross shop based on HP and Torque.

With that in mind, the average purchaser thinks "Why pay an extra $20,000 for the same performance?"

If they're just looking at power for the money they aren't going to buy a BMW anyway.

[ase2dais]

Originally Posted by bronco

an M3 is not only about HP and Torque...it is about the whole experience...

couldnt agree more.. i test drove a e90 335 once to see if I would upgrade my DD 325i.. however fast it was... I was annoyed each time I punch it and get that annoying boost... I like the feel of the kick that normal aspirated cars provide.

[halB]

It really depends on what kind of businessman he is. When there is a sudden growth and his pocket is not deep enough, he can either look for financial backers or make the company pubic to raise money to finance the growth. Alternatively, or simutaneously, if his customers have enough faith in him, he can charge either the full amount or a substantial deposit upfront, and build each box as the order comes in (ala Dell). To do so he needs a good solid reputation for his product and a network of just-in-time suppliers.

Any investors interested??

[leftcoastman]

Originally Posted by Corey

If they're just looking at power for the money they aren't going to buy a BMW anyway.

Agreed, however I don't think the decision making process is that simple. Perhaps I am overestimating the thought process of your average consumer but here's what I can foresee a lot of them thinking:

1) "I want cachet, so I'm buying a BMW. I know that most people will see my Roundel and get excited"

2) "Now that I've decided to get something with brand-power, should I pay $20,000 more for a marginal increase in performance (defined as HP by most people) considering most people will not know the difference between M and non-M? I mean, hell, I gotz da BMW tag already, is it worth $20k for that extra bit that probably won't get noticed by 99% of people?"

Now of course there are enthusiasts who look for other things, but most people aren't enthusiasts. But most people ARE brand conscious and if they decide to get a BMW, they have narrowed their choices. BMW would be incredibly stupid to cannibalize their own (probably significantly more profitable) M3.