[AltecBX]

Why can ecu flashes like (Giac & Dinan) remove the 7k rpm limiter and piggyback tunes can't?

[Amir87]

IMHO, I don't see any use out of a higher rev limiter since the stock turbos max out at around 5-6k.

[SfValley335i]

do you fully understand the meaning of "piggy back" ??
And upping the rev limiter isnt the smartest thing, especially if the valve springs etc weren't meant to be...

[AltecBX]

I do understand what a piggyback is. I'm just wondering why do flash offer the ability to remove it and piggys don't. With the advance and sophistication of piggyback tunes as of late, I would think they will too tap into this. They can remap their tables to do less boost but carry higher in the rpm range. This would be great for upgraded turbos as well.

[Bimmer Nerd]

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should

[hun77777]

Originally Posted by AltecBX

I do understand what a piggyback is. I'm just wondering why do flash offer the ability to remove it and piggys don't. With the advance and sophistication of piggyback tunes as of late, I would think they will too tap into this. They can remap their tables to do less boost but carry higher in the rpm range. This would be great for upgraded turbos as well.

but turbo itself tappers out around 5~6k so what's the point for more rpm? it will be just more load to engine without gain from turbo at/above redline. i'd much rather blow turbo than engine at very extreme...

[Kongen71]

Originally Posted by Amir87

IMHO, I don't see any use out of a higher rev limiter since the stock turbos max out at around 5-6k.

+1

doesn't make sense to remove it. Turbo efficiency much more interesting.

[wchoy]

Originally Posted by AltecBX

Why can ecu flashes like (Giac & Dinan) remove the 7k rpm limiter and piggyback tunes can't?

It is because the piggyback tuners are dont have warranties if the engine blows up from higher revs. If dinan ups the revs and somethings blows its all covered. new engine plops right in.

[ianbiz]

Originally Posted by wchoy

It is because the piggyback tuners are dont have warranties if the engine blows up from higher revs. If dinan ups the revs and somethings blows its all covered. new engine plops right in.

Im not agreeing with this at all. If you run a piggyback, you still run the risk of losing warranty and running crazy boost can still pop the motor (but have been proven to be quite strong) along w/ turbos and other stuff, etc. Also, piggeybacks, are just that, piggeybacks, they arent a full ECU tune, they just manipulate the ECU flash/tune/software that is on the car. With Dinan/GIAC/whoever else does flashes, its exactly that, a flash/tune/software.

Even w/ Dinan, you still lose you're factory warrarnty, the work is just covered by Dinan. Hence the reason the Dinan flash is quite conservative.

[vase330]

They dont increase limit by much. I think 200 rpm? More a marketing gimick than anything practically useful. You are not going to get a high strung S2000 or M3 like performance from these Turbo cars. On the flip side, all the meat is in the right regions for daily consumption. You barely need to rev these beasts to get crazy forward motion compared to those high strung screamers with no torque to talk of. I'd rather have the N54 any day over the M3 engine.

[dmurray14]

Phew, there was a long streak without a good fail thread. Back in business.

[michaelthepsycho]

Actually... A raised redline WILL help. On automatics for all six gears and the first three gears on a manual:

Redline: 7,000 / 7,200
Max HP RPM: 5,800

1st to 2nd: 3,928 / 4,040
2nd to 3rd: 4,547 / 4,677
3rd to 4th: 5,250 / 5,400
4th to 5th: 5,342 / 5,495
5th to 6th: 5,552 / 5,710

Anything under 5,800 means there's still acceleration to be had. People tend to forget that shifting drops your revs. The weakness of internal combustion engines...

[Mr. 5]

I think it's funny how someone starts a thread with a question and then everyone gets on the person for asking the question instead of answering the person's question.

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by Bimmer Nerd

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should

+1

Mike

[TurboSid]

Originally Posted by Mr. 5

I think it's funny how someone starts a thread with a question and then everyone gets on the person for asking the question instead of answering the person's question.

the question was technically answered...

there's no point increasing the rev limit because it has no benefit to performance. All you are left with is the disadvantages of raising the rev limit which are more stress on factory components that weren't tried and tested to run at higher speeds and more wear and tear on those components.

If there was a reason to do it, i'm sure the tuners would.

[marconi118]

Originally Posted by AltecBX

Why can ecu flashes like (Giac & Dinan) remove the 7k rpm limiter and piggyback tunes can't?

piggyback can't remove the limiter simply because the DME is still managing the engine and will hit the hard coded limit. Even procede that alters the timing can't fool the DME by sending a lower than actual RPM because the DME needs the real RPM to fire the coils and open the injectors.

The only way to remove the 7K limit is th change this value in the DME... only flash can do this

[Sniz]

Originally Posted by marconi118

piggyback can't remove the limiter simply because the DME is still managing the engine and will hit the hard coded limit. Even procede that alters the timing can't fool the DME by sending a lower than actual RPM because the DME needs the real RPM to fire the coils and open the injectors.

The only way to remove the 7K limit is th change this value in the DME... only flash can do this

I'll have to agree with this response unless Shiv or Mike can give another explanation.

That being said, upping the rev limit on this engine doesnt make any sense at this point.

[AltecBX]

Originally Posted by marconi118

piggyback can't remove the limiter simply because the DME is still managing the engine and will hit the hard coded limit. Even procede that alters the timing can't fool the DME by sending a lower than actual RPM because the DME needs the real RPM to fire the coils and open the injectors.

The only way to remove the 7K limit is th change this value in the DME... only flash can do this

That's what I thought. I don't know how far have piggyback tunes have come, thus I asked the question. I would like to hear from other piggyback tuners to see if it can be done, but just decide not to do it for reason stated above in this tread.

[hun77777]

even dinan themselves know it is not a good idea to bump up rpm for stock system and are planning to bringing bigger turbo in god-knows-when...

At higher boost settings in the upper RPM range, the turbos’ RPM limit was exceeded, shortening the lifespan of the turbo. Dinan addressed this problem by tapering boost gradually at high RPM. Future plans include adding larger turbos that can handle higher boost pressures at high RPM without compromising the durability of the turbo

http://www.dinancars.com/assets/File...A%20EDITED.pdf

but still even with aftermarket turbo, the peak boost on our turbos max out around 5k and i don't think that will change significantly even with aftermarket turbo setup or single turbo setup... (well, maybe those with aftermarket turbos can chim in)

[Sniz]

Originally Posted by hun77777

even dinan themselves know it is not a good idea to bump up rpm for stock system and are planning to bringing bigger turbo in god-knows-when...


http://www.dinancars.com/assets/File...A%20EDITED.pdf

but still even with aftermarket turbo, the peak boost on our turbos max out around 5k and i don't think that will change significantly even with aftermarket turbo setup or single turbo setup... (well, maybe those with aftermarket turbos can chim in)

a properly setup turbo will have no problem delivering airflow at 7000rpms on this motor......not an issue. The stockers are undersized for this application to allow for small amounts of turbo lag and good daily streetability, not max high rpm HP .

example, throw a gt40r on this motor and HP will probably peak right at redline but power under the curve will suffer for your typical daily use.

[e90fanatic]

Originally Posted by AltecBX

I do understand what a piggyback is. I'm just wondering why do flash offer the ability to remove it and piggys don't. With the advance and sophistication of piggyback tunes as of late, I would think they will too tap into this. They can remap their tables to do less boost but carry higher in the rpm range. This would be great for upgraded turbos as well.

you know what it is but you dont know how it works apparently