[matt_435xi]

so my March production 335i coupe came in and i wanted my dealer to add the factory alarm before i picked it up. CA originally said that is easy, and will not delay delivery. now my CA says that it will take another day because i have iDrive and adding the OEM alarm will require the entire system to be reflashed. now i work in IT, flash updates do not take long at all. what am i missing?? can someone please explain.

thanks!

[///Matt]

The term "flash" may be used completely differently in your field, or the salesperson is an idiot.

Either way, yes it's going to take another day.

Programming the E90 can take anywhere from 2-12 hours, if NOTHING goes wrong, but something goes wrong like 7/10 times. And then you have to troubleshoot, and/or replace the newly failed component.

It's a bummer that you've gotta wait, but grin and bear it. You've waited this long, what's another day?

Also... it has nothing to do with I-Drive. That's idiotic justification.

[r1200c/335i/318ti]

Originally Posted by ///Matt

The term "flash" may be used completely differently in your field, or the salesperson is an idiot.

Either way, yes it's going to take another day.

Programming the E90 can take anywhere from 2-12 hours, if NOTHING goes wrong, but something goes wrong like 7/10 times. And then you have to troubleshoot, and/or replace the newly failed component.

It's a bummer that you've gotta wait, but grin and bear it. You've waited this long, what's another day?

Also... it has nothing to do with I-Drive. That's idiotic justification.

///Matt;
Where are you getting your failure rate from? With such a high "flash" failure rate, the dealer should not be doing this!!
A flash is a flash (firmware update, if you'd like)...the IT guy-Matt 33Ci- is correct...the update gets writing to the cmos, that's it. This is not a full blown application being installed!
We are been bamboozled by these sales people; making us believe that this is a bigger deal than it really is!!!

[///Matt]

Guys,

I'm a technician. I watch these cars go through programming all frickin day.

Flash is just a mis-nomer in this case.

[matt_435xi]

///Matt thanks for your information!! I am going to take delivery tomorrow, as I need to get rid of my G35 ASAP and I will schedule my OEM alarm install in a week or so....that way I can take a BMW loaner too.

thanks for your help!!

[JSpira]

Originally Posted by r1200c/335i/318ti

///Matt;
Where are you getting your failure rate from? With such a high "flash" failure rate, the dealer should not be doing this!!
A flash is a flash (firmware update, if you'd like)...the IT guy-Matt 33Ci- is correct...the update gets writing to the cmos, that's it. This is not a full blown application being installed!
We are been bamboozled by these sales people; making us believe that this is a bigger deal than it really is!!!

Matt´s data is spot on and the failure rate is high. What he mightn´t have made clear is that sometimes the ,,failed component`` is a module that got fried during the update and this has to be replaced and then you have to run the update routine all over again.

If the dealer shouldn´t do it, whom would you entrust it to?

[r1200c/335i/318ti]

Originally Posted by ///Matt

Guys,

I'm a technician. I watch these cars go through programming all frickin day.

Flash is just a mis-nomer in this case.

///Matt,
I'll take your word!
I am just surprised at the rate of failure and the lack of efficiency; this is BMW after all!

[///Matt]

Originally Posted by r1200c/335i/318ti

///Matt,
I'll take your word!
I am just surprised at the rate of failure and the lack of efficiency; this is BMW after all!

I'm surprised at it, myself.

[d3l0n]

///Matt is right. From my experience, anything that had to do with updating idrive or flashing idrive was always a problem with the dealer. Activating my DRLs and iDrive Update. They tried and tried and it wouldn't work. Had to wait for a new update kinda thing... it was a lil mess. I work in IT too. Being in the support side of the fied, what alot of people lack are effective troubleshooting skills. So its a question of whether or not they know what they are doing, the read the f* manual (RFTM) or if some unknown/rare problem did indeed occur. Shit happens.

I want to get the OEM alarm installed. Dealer quoted me 795. I was thinking about ordering the part from ebay, having someone install it for me using the DIY thread, and then have the dealer activate it....

[etik]

Originally Posted by matt_335Ci

now i work in IT, flash updates do not take long at all. what am i missing?? can someone please explain.

I'm an IT engineer, lately I've got my car upgraded to the latest progman.

Indeed it took 20min to run a diag than about 4hrs to upload the new soft.

I asked around but nobody at my dealer could explain why it's so slow but that I should be pleased as it used to take longer in previous release and some car like 7 series could take days to upgrade !

I believe this all link to the bus speed ?

Now, with the new soft they cannot choose anymore to flash a part of the car or the whole car so if you have idrive the soft to be uploaded is bigger, that will indeed impact the time needed even if it's not directly related to your alarm install.

[LEDZEP]

I had the alarm installed in my new car prior to delivery, as I have done in the past. This time it was easy and fast. The dealer got my car on Wednesday afternoon and I took delivery on Thursday evening. That is, it seems, the exception more than the rule though. I think it took a full day when we had it done in the E91 pre-delivery.

Any time they are going to be updating the software in your car there is a risk that it can be a long process. Seems even more risky when adding new components, such as alarms or satellite radio. My first E90 had the pre-wiring for Sat, and I had the dealer install it for me... took three days! Of course, they gave us a 7 Series to drive during that time so I didn't complain.

The process BMW uses to update their systems is quite archaic, but there's not much the dealers and techs can do about it... Matt knows what he's talking about.

[d3l0n]

Originally Posted by etik

I'm an IT engineer, lately I've got my car upgraded to the latest progman.

Indeed it took 20min to run a diag than about 4hrs to upload the new soft.

I asked around but nobody at my dealer could explain why it's so slow but that I should be pleased as it used to take longer in previous release and some car like 7 series could take days to upgrade !

I believe this all link to the bus speed ?

Now, with the new soft they cannot choose anymore to flash a part of the car or the whole car so if you have idrive the soft to be uploaded is bigger, that will indeed impact the time needed even if it's not directly related to your alarm install.

lol probably over a serial cable which would suck. Definitely seems to be a bus speed issue. If it's from dvd directly, that dvd drive is slow.

[matt_435xi]

excellent information everyone, thank you!

[r1200c/335i/318ti]

Originally Posted by JSpira

Matt´s data is spot on and the failure rate is high. What he mightn´t have made clear is that sometimes the ,,failed component`` is a module that got fried during the update and this has to be replaced and then you have to run the update routine all over again.

If the dealer shouldn´t do it, whom would you entrust it to?

Mr. Spira-

I am not sure why you are confused...

I think that we all agree that the software update process is inadequate.
I have heard terms such as "archaic", "high failure rate", "lack of troubleshooting abilities", etc...
I hope that none of these terms show up on your performance review!

///Matt (our Resident Tech!) says: "I am surprised at it, myself" (referring to the failure rate)

D3LON says: "//Matt is right. From my experience, anything that had to do with updating idrive or flashing idrive was always a problem with the dealer. Activating my DRLs and iDrive Update. They tried and tried and it wouldn't work."

etik said: 'I asked around but nobody at my dealer could explain why it's so slow but that I should be pleased as it used to take longer in previous release..."

Based on these less than flattering reviews; perhaps our dealers should outsources these update functions to qualified individuals/firms.

The idea that "we have no choice", I am afraid, may have encouraged ineptitude.

I will take my car to the dealer for an update as soon as I get the opportunity to do so. Since doing so may yield an unpredictable adventure; perhaps my beautiful car will develop wings and fly away during the update!...I'll make sure to bring my camera; I'll post pictures!

[///Matt]

excuse me, but now you've offended me.

It's not the dealership, or any of our extensively trained personal, who are the problem behind the high failur rate for BMW softare updates.

The process itself, and the software being loaded, are both intrisically flawed.

No manner of dealer outsourcing will rectify this problem. The only thing that WILL rectify this problem, is BMW spending more time and money on engineering this process and it's associated software.

We hook the car up to the programming machinery, some dedicated linux-based pc's, which can do NOTHING but program cars. We select the appropriate model, and ask the computer to determine a Status Request.

A Status Request determines which modules, throughout the car, are not up to the latest software version.

Then the computer provides it's Measures Plan. The Measures Plan details which modules will be updated, through which access point (D-Bus or MOST access), and to what software number the will be updated.

Then we are provided an ETA. This ranges from minutes, to 12 hours or more.

We have NO input as to whether or not some modules should be programmed. It's all or nothing, with the interface BMW has provided us.

Once we accept the Measures Plan, and programming commences, you can't do anything to the programming station or the car. They need to sit, and do their thing.

So, very often, some module fails while receiving it's software update. Usually TCU (phone/bluetooth/BMW assist), but sometimes, other modules.

Once the TCU fails, our hands are bound by BMW. We MUST write a PUMA case (submit a problem report to the technical help department) and obtain an authorization code to replace the TCU. If we DON'T get the code, BMW will not pay us the part's cost, which is nearly $1000.

PUMA usually has us chase our tail for a day or so, doing various functions which have a slight possibility of reviving the lost TCU.

Then they give an auth code.

Then we order the backordered TCU. This takes between 1 day, and 3 weeks to arrive.

We can then install it in the car, and start the programming process all over.

So please.... Next time you think, "This is ridiculous, how hard can it be to flash a damn car!? My dealership must be incompetent!"

Think again. You don't have the facts neccessary to be making a judgement like you have.

[r1200c/335i/318ti]

///Matt,

I am sorry that you feel offended, this was not my intention at all.

I actually did not even know that you were that intimate with flashing/updating the software; but I was willing to take your word anyway.

I think that you've brilliantly answered matt335Ci's inquiry.

Well, I guess BMW provided you inadequate processes and software and, as an added bonus, the opportunity to lose money when updating cars.

I still think that BMW is too advanced to leave these updates to hazard; they seem to be too unpredictable.
A good update should also have a diagnostic component to it...

Unfortunately, you having bad tools to do your job makes you look bad.

However, we now know better.

Thank you for the insight you've provided.

[///Matt]

[d3l0n]

yeah that sounds about right.. who is PUMA? i keep forgetting to ask my dealer about that.

[TTG]

///Matt you are awesome! Thanks for the detailed info.....

I am just planning on installing the alarm myself and not getting it "activated". Most of its functions work anyway without getting it flashed anyway. At this time I really do not want my car reprogrammed.