[bigdog34uz]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

I'm wrong. That dyno result looks great and healthy. Good work! Better?

I think people tend to let emotions get the best of them and forget the purpose of this (or any) public forum. Mike is clearly an expert on tuning so I'll defer all opinions to him in the future.

Shiv how can you tell that the car is knocking from the dyno graph?

[Alan l.]

Why not explain what you are seeing Shiv? Atleast it could potentially help out the OP and others could either shut up or explain why you are wrong.

Alan

[subieworx]

Originally Posted by Elie335

There's already 1000000 threads about JB and procede, so you don't have to tell everyone who is posting a dyno with a JB that they got a bad result because they're using a " JB " tune, and switching to procede would get some better result etc... ppl can search and can read and can compare about both, just stop hijacking threads and start war all over.

Agreed.

In the end though I would never go with a Procede and am switching from the JB3 as piggy backs are not the best way to tune in my opinion. I have been waiting for the AP for quite some time and chose the JB3 in the mean time due in part to communication practices demonstrated in this thread. I am more than well aware that current tune is not perfect and do not feel that the Procede would net any great improvement.

[Slops]

Damn... Is it getting hot in here or is it just me?

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by Alan l.

Why not explain what you are seeing Shiv? Atleast it could potentially help out the OP and others could either shut up or explain why you are wrong.

Alan

His evaluation of JB dynos is really simple. Any deviation from an ideal curve is major knock. When the same things are seen on his customers dynos, and they often are, he either ignores them or chalks it up to "adaption" or insufficient airflow on the dyno.

Actually most of the things people notice and blame on knock are actually throttle closure/boost control related. Like the COBB intercooler dyno and logs posted above.

Mike

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by subieworx

Agreed.

In the end though I would never go with a Procede and am switching from the JB3 as piggy backs are not the best way to tune in my opinion. I have been waiting for the AP for quite some time and chose the JB3 in the mean time due in part to communication practices demonstrated in this thread. I am more than well aware that current tune is not perfect and do not feel that the Procede would net any great improvement.

Having feelings and opinions is great. But if you don't want them to lead you astray, they should be a result understanding and research.

The pre-IC run showed considerable knock activity based upon the lumpy curve and the AFR taking a nose dive down to the 10ish:1 range. Assuming no wideband failure, that is the most convincing evidence. The second run didn't induce the knock-induced enrichment, but it did show some pretty sharp peaks/dips in power. If more runs were done, one could see if these dips/peak were consistent. If they are, one could argue that the tune is mapped to run that like. If not, then knock is the most likely culprit.

Shiv

[klipseracer]

Originally Posted by subieworx

Agreed.

In the end though I would never go with a Procede and am switching from the JB3 as piggy backs are not the best way to tune in my opinion. I have been waiting for the AP for quite some time and chose the JB3 in the mean time due in part to communication practices demonstrated in this thread. I am more than well aware that current tune is not perfect and do not feel that the Procede would net any great improvement.

JB4 and v5 are both great tunes afaik. But to say piggies aren't the 'best way' to tune would be pretty silly. A stand alone is the best way. Is that what you are going with? We all know a flash tune for this car doesn't exist that is ultimately more superior in any majority of categories that actually matter when it comes to tuning in real life for your typical consumer. If you have a special need or tuning requirement then sure I can understand. But this is likely not the case. I honestly can't think of one category where a flash tune has PROVEN with numbers it can do something that a piggie back couldn't be programmed to do. I can however mention several benefits of a piggyback tune that a flash tune is not ever going to be able to provide. Most of the benefits of flash tuning are hearsay and there is no evidence that they can actually perform better, at least not in any large number of situations. Just because the tune is 'inside' the dme doesn't make it superior. If tunes were the best way to go, then these two people wouldn't have anything to argue over now would they?

I'll also mention that the 'best' way is very opinionated. The best way to do it for you yes, may perhaps be your opinion but to say you'd never go with a procede without likely ever having tested one to begin with, well then you don't have much say. Its easy to see shiv's remarks as pointless, but I can tell you that they are just as bad on the 'other forums'. But instead of commenting directly, they say the, 'other tune'. Its like racism. Its still live and well, but its not racism unless you get caught... That and people today are just sneaky racists. I'm Asian and I'm a racist sometimes. Now what.

[jcarlucci1]

355 whp with all bolt ons and map 7? Something wrong there. There are stock cars with a tune making that much.

[onesuperboi]

Well, he said piggy-back tunes are not the best way to tune.

Why not?

Is it because it doesn't control timing? Does the tune bog when you shift? If that's the case, then why choose and use a tune in the first place that doesn't control those factors?

[SSIMPS]

it amazes me how fast threads can get turned into garbage. OP, i hope you enjoy your car whatever tune you decide to go with

[ZTUNER]

Originally Posted by jcarlucci1

355 whp with all bolt ons and map 7? Something wrong there. There are stock cars with a tune making that much.

Depends on the dyno and caliberation. Even the same brand and model dyno. Its quite easy to get a dyno to display more or less power and it does not have anying to do with smoothing or CF either. People take dyno numbers as gospel when infact the only thing that matters is the delta change and track times.

Harry

[acdHQK713K]

Why is the dyno graph now gone?

[n54-5&3]

Don't you know anything about reading dynos?????

For everyone that doesn't know how a proCEDE expert tuner (don't you know every proCEDE owner is an expert tuner) reads a dyno, it goes like this:
You need to look at the curve to see if its smooth. If there are any bumps, and if there are then dips, and if the customer is a JB customer, then proCEDE owners will quickly tell you automatically that you have knock.

Looking at the dyno below, the uneducated JB owner (don't you know every JB customer is uneducated) may mistakenly think they see knock based off of the above proCEDE-expert-tuner-test. But, if you look closely, you will see that it is impossible that the dyno shows knock... the dyno says "vishnu" at the top, which means its a proCEDE. Every proCEDE expert knows that these symptoms on a proCEDE are NOT knock!

Originally Posted by Rysandro

Is this?

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by n54-5&3

Don't you know anything about reading dynos?????

For everyone that doesn't know how a proCEDE expert tuner (don't you know every proCEDE owner is an expert tuner) reads a dyno, it goes like this:
You need to look at the curve to see if its smooth. If there are any bumps, and if there are then dips, and if the customer is a JB customer, then proCEDE owners will quickly tell you automatically that you have knock.

Looking at the dyno below, the uneducated JB owner (don't you know every JB customer is uneducated) may mistakenly think they see knock based off of the above proCEDE-expert-tuner-test. But, if you look closely, you will see that it is impossible that the dyno shows knock... the dyno says "vishnu" at the top, which means its a proCEDE. Every proCEDE expert knows that these symptoms on a proCEDE are NOT knock!

Amazing how two consecutive runs show the same knock activity at the same RPM points. Or maybe it's not knock activity. You seem to be the expert. You tell me

[skier]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

True to form yourself Mike. Taking a look at that dyno result and ignore the obvious issues.

shiv