[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

I think its time to move brandon so you can feel all the power it offers haha

[roninsoldier83]

Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions

I think its time to move brandon so you can feel all the power it offers haha

Yeah, I do miss living at sea level haha! Maybe I'll have to take a road trip and visit a few friends of mine in either Texas or Cali this summer and see how she feels at sea level

[Dackz]

Originally Posted by roninsoldier83

The AP logs the following:

Time
Load Act (Load). (which was hitting as high as ~160 or so)
TPS (it was right around 80 everytime I went WOT/no throttle plate trimming)
Req. Boost Abs (absolute/requested, as in total manifold pressure requested)
Boost Abs (absolute. It never hit over 28.42psi)
WGDC
Intake manifold temps (IAT's)
AFR
Boost
Timing
RPM

Unfortunately, after logging and moving the CSV's onto my laptop, it did not log oil temps, and I sold my old BT scanner a while ago, so you're out of luck on that one. For reference, on days like yesterday, my oil temps used to sit around ~225-230, whereas with the AP, they're sitting around ~240-245. Although I'm not sure what other guys at this elevation are seeing for oil temps when cruising... ?!?

I'm always at 240-245 in and around town and cruising on the highway when the car is warm. It's never been cooler unless the air temp is 30 or under. My car has always ran warmer for some reason. With my JB+ on lowest setting, it reaches 250 pretty easy if I get on it a few times in a row but the temp goes down pretty quick (oil cooler kicking in).

I enjoy reading your information. It's the only threads that deal with the questions I have about boost and elevation.

Now the real question will be whether or not your turbos start making the 'siren noise' showing a sign of failure starting. Every tuned 335 except the dinan guys have had this happen. That's why I went with jb+ . Lower boost = less stress on the turbo.

You should head over to the Rockies forum for information on our meet this Saturday at bandimere. It would be cool to check out the AP in person. Even if you don't run the car, it would be cool to check that out.

[Dackz]

Where I say jb in thread above that should be jb plus. Damn iPhone won't show the sign on the app apparently. So yea I have a jb+ plus ( )

[GeorgiaTech335coupe]

Originally Posted by roninsoldier83

EDIT: notice on the multigear log timing is lower in 3rd gear than in my 2500-6500rpm 3rd gear log. Could be due to the shift, but it could also be due to higher IAT's if there's a compensation table for them, as the run started and ended with higher manifold temps due to going through three gears. However, I ran out of road, and wasn't able to take that pull up to 6500rpm, so we don't know how much advance it would have pushed if I would have kept going.

One thing I have noticed from my extensive drag racing, is that post-shift bog will lower the overall advance seen near redline, especially in the 3-4 shift. This results in my trap speeds being greatly reduced anytime I have a post shift bog and can be verified by looking at my timing logs.

On your multiple gear pull, it kinda looks like you have some bog, but is too hard to tell because you don't show actual throttle. You could just be shifting slowly, mimicing a bog, which could also be causing the advance to not rise up as high or as quickly.

Not really sure what my point is, but just adding that info.

What is Cobb doing to eliminate shift bog, esp 3-4, that is seen even on stock cars? And has anyone experienced it?

[Proper Motion LLC]

Originally Posted by Alan l.

Cool. This pretty much confirms that as conditions get worse (warmer weather) we will start to see boost rise a bit from the early logs that most of us put up.

Did you see any throttle closures in your logs? Seems like there are half of us that show TC while others don't. I don't feel them but my logs always shows it early i the rpm band.

Alan

It's not traction control for some of you? Tried logging with DTC completely off?

[TiAg335i]

Originally Posted by GeorgiaTech335coupe

One thing I have noticed from my extensive drag racing, is that post-shift bog will lower the overall advance seen near redline, especially in the 3-4 shift. This results in my trap speeds being greatly reduced anytime I have a post shift bog and can be verified by looking at my timing logs.

On your multiple gear pull, it kinda looks like you have some bog, but is too hard to tell because you don't show actual throttle. You could just be shifting slowly, mimicing a bog, which could also be causing the advance to not rise up as high or as quickly.

Not really sure what my point is, but just adding that info.

What is Cobb doing to eliminate shift bog, esp 3-4, that is seen even on stock cars? And has anyone experienced it?

After my short test drive tonight after installing Cobb Stage 1 93 octane map I did notice a bit of bog in 3rd gear and in general around that shift point. I would have to do further testing to confirm this but I did notice a slight amount of bog. I still need to let the ECU adapt to the tune however.

[Joshboody]

i rarely notice a "bog" from 3rd to 4th, but there's definitly something funny during many shifts that lower timing... I think this is knock personally. A bog would be fairly severe knock, and this happens stock also. Typically more noticable from 2nd to 3rd for me. During the cold temps (or 100oct), the car really jumps forward on a shift. Much has to do with foot timing probably with MTs.

I really think there's not much to the dme timing logic and relies heavily on the knock sensors... i'm skeptical that there's even IAT adjustment, or if there is it's very slight and not enough.

Cobb have you confirmed IAT compensation? Also any potential adjustment for gears?

[mithiral67]

Originally Posted by Joshboody

i rarely notice a "bog" from 3rd to 4th, but there's definitly something funny during many shifts that lower timing... I think this is knock personally. A bog would be fairly severe knock, and this happens stock also. Typically more noticable from 2nd to 3rd for me. During the cold temps (or 100oct), the car really jumps forward on a shift. Much has to do with foot timing probably with MTs.

I really think there's not much to the dme timing logic and relies heavily on the knock sensors... i'm skeptical that there's even IAT adjustment, or if there is it's very slight and not enough.

Cobb have you confirmed IAT compensation? Also any potential adjustment for gears?

huh?

[roninsoldier83]

Originally Posted by Dackz

I'm always at 240-245 in and around town and cruising on the highway when the car is warm. It's never been cooler unless the air temp is 30 or under. My car has always ran warmer for some reason. With my JB+ on lowest setting, it reaches 250 pretty easy if I get on it a few times in a row but the temp goes down pretty quick (oil cooler kicking in).

I enjoy reading your information. It's the only threads that deal with the questions I have about boost and elevation.

Now the real question will be whether or not your turbos start making the 'siren noise' showing a sign of failure starting. Every tuned 335 except the dinan guys have had this happen. That's why I went with jb+ . Lower boost = less stress on the turbo.

You should head over to the Rockies forum for information on our meet this Saturday at bandimere. It would be cool to check out the AP in person. Even if you don't run the car, it would be cool to check that out.

Well, the amount of wear on the turbo is really going to depend not only on the amount of peak boost I'm pushing, but on my driving style, and for the most part, this is my daily driver that takes my kiddo to daycare on a regular basis haha, so I don't spend too much time under WOT/peak boost, most of the time, I'm just cruising to work. So far no issues with noise, but I would be sure to report them if they occurred.

I actually have my kiddo this weekend, or else I would be down to head up to Bandi, but the combination of a 2 year old and a drag strip don't mix very well haha! Maybe next time.

[roninsoldier83]

Originally Posted by GeorgiaTech335coupe

One thing I have noticed from my extensive drag racing, is that post-shift bog will lower the overall advance seen near redline, especially in the 3-4 shift. This results in my trap speeds being greatly reduced anytime I have a post shift bog and can be verified by looking at my timing logs.

On your multiple gear pull, it kinda looks like you have some bog, but is too hard to tell because you don't show actual throttle. You could just be shifting slowly, mimicing a bog, which could also be causing the advance to not rise up as high or as quickly.

Not really sure what my point is, but just adding that info.

What is Cobb doing to eliminate shift bog, esp 3-4, that is seen even on stock cars? And has anyone experienced it?

Yeah, I was shifting fairly slowly, wasn't trying to set land speed records, just get some log data.

[135iNewb]

Originally Posted by Joshboody

i rarely notice a "bog" from 3rd to 4th, but there's definitly something funny during many shifts that lower timing... I think this is knock personally. A bog would be fairly severe knock, and this happens stock also. Typically more noticable from 2nd to 3rd for me. During the cold temps (or 100oct), the car really jumps forward on a shift. Much has to do with foot timing probably with MTs.

I really think there's not much to the dme timing logic and relies heavily on the knock sensors... i'm skeptical that there's even IAT adjustment, or if there is it's very slight and not enough.

Cobb have you confirmed IAT compensation? Also any potential adjustment for gears?

I also notice this jump after a quick shift. Its much less noticeable stock, but with the AP, you can really feel the car lurch forward, then settle back down. If I was a passenger I would probably think "This guy cant drive"...

The lurch and the very sensitive throttle input is something I hope Cobb can tune out. Im sure they have more pressing items, but I would love to see a revised stage 1 tune without those issues. Otherwise, its very impressive.

[Charleston335]

So the JB4 doesnt like high altitudes? I've seen higher number from the JB4 around 370 whp from maps 1 and 2.

[Dackz]

Originally Posted by roninsoldier83

Well, the amount of wear on the turbo is really going to depend not only on the amount of peak boost I'm pushing, but on my driving style, and for the most part, this is my daily driver that takes my kiddo to daycare on a regular basis haha, so I don't spend too much time under WOT/peak boost, most of the time, I'm just cruising to work. So far no issues with noise, but I would be sure to report them if they occurred.

I actually have my kiddo this weekend, or else I would be down to head up to Bandi, but the combination of a 2 year old and a drag strip don't mix very well haha! Maybe next time.

Yea, for most of us with the noise problem, its a DD car. Mine had V4 on it for a week and according to my logs I was only pushing 13psi (stock otherwise) and it caused the noise, only a couple of days after I put it on. I took it out and sold it there after. I got my turbo's replaced and have been running with the JB+ on lowest setting since about August/September or so. Others have had turbos replaced as well but everyone tuned but the LOW boost guys have had issue, some to degrees worse then others (some louder then others).

It will be interesting to see on your car with the flash tune and what its doing if the problem arises. I am unaware of anyone with a flash in the area except Dinan but he had no reported issues. I was just wondering if the flash tune would do something extra to help the little turbos out? Or if its just the lower boost in general? Perhaps the other tunes doing something to the wastegates with the boost coming on lower may be causing excessive wear. Who knows...I just know that about everyone has had the problem.

[forza1976]

david, the V4 didn't cause it buddy... your car had 30,000+ miles on it and the wear and tear already on the turbos were just perpetuated with the additional boost. You can guarantee that any of the tuning options (including Dinan) will cause additional turbo wear beyond what BMW suggested based on their stock boost targets.

[Joshboody]

Originally Posted by 135iNewb

I also notice this jump after a quick shift. Its much less noticeable stock, but with the AP, you can really feel the car lurch forward, then settle back down. If I was a passenger I would probably think "This guy cant drive"...

The lurch and the very sensitive throttle input is something I hope Cobb can tune out. Im sure they have more pressing items, but I would love to see a revised stage 1 tune without those issues. Otherwise, its very impressive.

I'm referring to a "jump" into gear as a good thing cause torque remaining high due to good timing (my opinion). With any tune stock, or other this is the case with a good timing curve under WOT. All i'm saying is that the timing curve may look good when in gear, but it can start low after the shift... sometimes a bog, other times just not as crisp. My thought is that this is mainly due to knock sensors.

This is my first boosted car, and i'm curious how other platforms perform here. With a single turbo, i'm sure there's more of a lag giving more time for load and timing to stabilize. N/A cars probably have more give since they are closer to MBT and can handle short periods of excessive advance without knock.

[Dackz]

Originally Posted by forza1976

david, the V4 didn't cause it buddy... your car had 30,000+ miles on it and the wear and tear already on the turbos were just perpetuated with the additional boost. You can guarantee that any of the tuning options (including Dinan) will cause additional turbo wear beyond what BMW suggested based on their stock boost targets.

Oh I know it didnt cause it, it just excarberated an already existing fault. The thing is, where does that fault lie (what is it exactly) and to what degree CAN we push it?

And IMO, I think we can go beyond stock to a point. The 335is does. I wish someone in the area had one and we could see what it is boosting. The extra cooling on it shouldnt help extend the turbo life THAT much, would it?

[forza1976]

Originally Posted by Dackz

Oh I know it didnt cause it, it just excarberated an already existing fault. The thing is, where does that fault lie (what is it exactly) and to what degree CAN we push it?

And IMO, I think we can go beyond stock to a point. The 335is does. I wish someone in the area had one and we could see what it is boosting. The extra cooling on it shouldnt help extend the turbo life THAT much, would it?

Ok, gotcha homey...

[roninsoldier83]

Originally Posted by Joshboody

i rarely notice a "bog" from 3rd to 4th, but there's definitly something funny during many shifts that lower timing... I think this is knock personally. A bog would be fairly severe knock, and this happens stock also. Typically more noticable from 2nd to 3rd for me. During the cold temps (or 100oct), the car really jumps forward on a shift. Much has to do with foot timing probably with MTs.

I really think there's not much to the dme timing logic and relies heavily on the knock sensors... i'm skeptical that there's even IAT adjustment, or if there is it's very slight and not enough.

Cobb have you confirmed IAT compensation? Also any potential adjustment for gears?

I know Cobb had mentioned there are several compensation tables (without naming them specifically) and my assumption would be that IAT would be one of them, but that's just based on my own speculation from playing with other cars over the years. Subaru's have IAT compensation tables, which, on a hot day, if a person was running a SRI & datalogging at idle for a while, seeing IAT's going into the 140-150 degree range, unless adjusted, you would see their ECU's start to lower timing. Granted, those were MAF cars, so they weren't seeing actual manifold pressure temps, but if unadjusted, IAT's would play a pretty decent role on lowering timing advance, and would have a decent effect on power.

Knowing that fact that these cars running several compensation tables that are relevant to timing, I would have to assume IAT would be one of them. Again, I don't know that for a fact, but maybe the guys at Cobb will chime in to possibly shed some light.... either that, or maybe when ATR software is released, we can take a look at comp tables for ourselves

[roninsoldier83]

Originally Posted by Charleston335

So the JB4 doesnt like high altitudes? I've seen higher number from the JB4 around 370 whp from maps 1 and 2.

You really need to understand that no 2 dynos are the same. I've seen people make a pull on a local Dynojet, put down around ~320whp (fully corrected of course), and take the same car, same mods, same tune ect, drive to a local Dyno Dynamics and be lucky to put down 260whp (half corrected). I wish people on this board would realize this... a dyno is a tool to quantify gains/losses through modifications, and tuning, as well as a tool to assist in tuning in a safe environment (i.e. no worries of getting a big ticket doing 3rd gear pulls/road tuning on the street).

No two dynos are created equal. Period. Different cars (possibly different modifications), different conditions, different fuel, and most importantly different DYNO's, making the fact that you've seen higher numbers from people running a JB4 completely irrelevant unless it was on the same dyno, running the same mods and fuel grade as my car.

Please try to grasp this: all dynos are not created equal, they are not an end-all-be-all pissing contest machine. They are merely tools to assist in tuning.

BTW, it's not so much that the "JB4" doesn't like high altitude, it's that high altitude is harder on every vehicle, and running an OTS map that doesn't take timing into account up here only exasperates that problem.

Just my $.02

[GeorgiaTech335coupe]

Originally Posted by roninsoldier83

I know Cobb had mentioned there are several compensation tables (without naming them specifically) and my assumption would be that IAT would be one of them, but that's just based on my own speculation from playing with other cars over the years. Subaru's have IAT compensation tables, which, on a hot day, if a person was running a SRI & datalogging at idle for a while, seeing IAT's going into the 140-150 degree range, unless adjusted, you would see their ECU's start to lower timing. Granted, those were MAF cars, so they weren't seeing actual manifold pressure temps, but if unadjusted, IAT's would play a pretty decent role on lowering timing advance, and would have a decent effect on power.

Knowing that fact that these cars running several compensation tables that are relevant to timing, I would have to assume IAT would be one of them. Again, I don't know that for a fact, but maybe the guys at Cobb will chime in to possibly shed some light.... either that, or maybe when ATR software is released, we can take a look at comp tables for ourselves

Didn't the old JBs that did not fully control the boost, but scaled the stock boost control show that there was IAT compensation by showing a decrease in boost towards redline when IATs went up considerably?