[iaknown]

Originally Posted by DWR

Hey folks, Pheno and I have been working on some enhancements (I have ideas and he does the hard work - it's a totally unfair situation ). Some of those enhancements should be come out shortly, such as:
-Graphical playback of logging
-Small installation package that includes only required EDIABAS elements
-Calculated 'gauges' like Horsepower and Torque, Brake Specific Fuel Consumption, ect. Essentially, road dyno.

We were thinking it might be best to start a new thread or may be even a sticky, so that everything can be found in one place. That would include tutorials and sample videos.

What's the best way to make this available to anyone who wants to try Testo out or learn more, without searching throught the posts? And does anyone care?

Awesome!!! You think that's an unfair situation? All I did was get you two connected and I just sit here while you do all work

I'm sure if you start a new thread it'll be easy to find. But maybe in a more general category for all Bimmer owners? Up to you guys.....

Originally Posted by TDIwyse

DWR/iaknown, do you have any insight as to what I might be doing wrong with trying to get drive pressure readings from TestO? Or is there some setting in TestO that "clips" a sensor output to some "max" value?

Sorry, I actually haven't gotten to play with TestO recently nor read drive pressure at all with it. I doubt TestO would clip anything but it could very well be the sensor, dde software or INPA values. I have seen boost get clipped in certain log parameters which seemed to be within the dde....

[iaknown]

Originally Posted by TDIwyse

Liked the video.

You can add a restrictor plate between the down pipe and mid pipe. I had tried putting the "mixer" (item #3 here http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...15&hg=18&fg=10) back in and it helped a little with the overboost before I went and did the EWG mod. You could also take a thin sheet of metal and form various size holes of smaller diameter and insert it in that interface. Not sure how small of a hole you'd need though...

You'd be shocked how small a hole you'll need to bring the boost down....

[DWR]

Originally Posted by iaknown

I have seen boost get clipped in certain log parameters which seemed to be within the dde....

Yes, some parameters get 'filtered'. That's why I look for the parameter that monitors the electrical signal from the sensor and then find a 'units converted' parameter that follows it proportionally.

[iaknown]

Originally Posted by DWR

Yes, some parameters get 'filtered'. That's why I look for the parameter that monitors the electrical signal from the sensor and then find a 'units converted' parameter that follows it proportionally.

Which one is that by the way? If I remember there are 3?

[DWR]

I haven't actually 'mapped' the boost pressure parameters. For things like that you can always just go the OBDII PID. They are also in the MESSWERTETAB in Testo.

[35d]

Originally Posted by iaknown

While that test shows the actuators working at idle, it still does not rule it out completely. The wastegate actuator has a lot more travel than 5mm. But with idle vacuum and minimal drive pressure that's all the movement you'll get. You've confirmed the actuator is doing something which means the pressure converter/solenoid is working too but I'll say it again....you need to get a camera down there and take the car out for a full fueling run. Rule out that the actuator isn't binding under full travel. Then you know for sure its a wastegate flow issue....

I did want to try with the camera there but it's really awkward trying to mount the camera anywhere. Also the heat around that area.
When I did some runs and logged with the wastegate constantly open with constant vacum I was still get overboost at high rpm. I never logged before the dpf guy and remap but I do rember it didn't have the limp mode issue at high speed runs.

I will carry on trying some mods on the map from my tunner. It's just strange that a lot of pepole here with same cars same mod don't have this overboost issue. some tunners say its a software issue so I'm waiting to see if anyone can fix my map. Although those guys who have no issues I don't know what has been done differently in remap or has there svbl been raised to really high


If only the dam dpf was not soo much difficult to get out I would have put it back in and then checked what diffrence it made.
There was a guy in another forum that had this issue and he fixed it by turning the bolt on wastgate actuator back once so it opened earlier

[DWR]

Originally Posted by 35d

There was a guy in another forum that had this issue and he fixed it by turning the bolt on wastgate actuator back once so it opened earlier

That would work for you, only if it wasn't opening all the way. Didn't you test it with constant vacuum, and still had the problem at high rpm? Nothing is 'earlier' than constantly on.

[35d]

Originally Posted by DWR

That would work for you, only if it wasn't opening all the way. Didn't you test it with constant vacuum, and still had the problem at high rpm? Nothing is 'earlier' than constantly on.

Yes true with constantly open it still over boosted at high rpm

[pheno]

A lot of info since my last reply - trying to catch up and hopefully can give some answers to all of them. First of all it's nice to hear there's continuing interest in TestO I'll keep updating and adding features as long as there is interest.

Yes, there are different kinds of diagnostic tests in DIS. But most probably DIS is using the same .prg file we (or TestO) are using. It means we can execute them from Tool32 or from TestO. Well TestO does not currently have that good support for the functions DIS has. For example theres job: STEUERN_SELEKTIV job that wants 3 parameters. Regulator ID (or a controller that sets wanted duty cycle, not sure what is the best tranlation here), PWM and third param is length of operation max 60sec. . In table STELLER are listed regulators that you can control. There is for example: ladedrucksteller - boost controller, EGR, etc. From Tool32 you can browse all the jobs that start with STEUERN, it means you can control something. And it seems 335d has quite many of those sensors and regulators..

Drive pressure.. good question. The value TestO reads is displayed unmodified so they're coming straigth from DDE. Some values seem to be normalized. For examaple for MAF there are many different values some filtered some not.

What is actually drive pressure ? Just trying to make sure were talking about the same pressure here :-)

[DWR]

Pheno, are you saying there are things we can actuate almost indefinitely by periodically resetting an actuation command?

If so, I need to look at the list of things we can control in our DDE. Just yesterday I learned it is possble to actuate the wastegate. If you are saying we can set a time interval for that I'm having some very wild ideas!

[pheno]

Originally Posted by DWR

Pheno, are you saying there are things we can actuate almost indefinitely by periodically resetting an actuation command?

If so, I need to look at the list of things we can control in our DDE. Just yesterday I learned it is possble to actuate the wastegate. If you are saying we can set a time interval for that I'm having some very wild ideas!

Haha.. I push and you iterate
Yeah.. It seems you could set boost pressure actuator into 50% PWM for 30 secs for example. Let me know if you need help on how to set parameters.

[35d]

Originally Posted by pheno

Haha.. I push and you iterate
Yeah.. It seems you could set boost pressure actuator into 50% PWM for 30 secs for example. Let me know if you need help on how to set parameters.

Hi so would that be for a test like dis? Or could it be set in the map too. So if you getting overboost low down the Wastagte actuator can open the wastgate say about 10% to bring boost to were it should be?

[TDIwyse]

Think I found the correct job for drive pressure. Two values give basically the same result and are much more realistic to what I'd expect. Values are: STAT_Exh_pSensPTrbnUs_WERT and STAT_Exh_pTrbnUs_full_WERT

I didn't have the correct job in this log for the actual manifold boost, but for the plot I overlaid yesterday's boost log onto the rpm axis of today's data and also put in the calculated pressure ratio. (edit ... I did have the correct data after all so I just updated and re-inserted the plot).

pheno, drive pressure is how much pressure is on the exhaust side of the turbo that drives the turbine which pushes the cold side air into the manifold ... if your turbo goes off it's compressor map this ratio gets high and spells trouble for the health of the turbo ... which is why some of us are doing wastegate mods to help relieve the excess pressure ratio caused by overboost when we open up the exhaust.

I would've liked to have had the pressure ratio with the OEM intercooler to compare with the VRSF IC ... but alas, I had logged the wrong thing (damn you AssModMan!).

[pheno]

Originally Posted by TDIwyse

Think I found the correct job for drive pressure. Two values give basically the same result and are much more realistic to what I'd expect. Values are: STAT_Exh_pSensPTrbnUs_WERT and STAT_Exh_pTrbnUs_full_WERT

I didn't have the correct job in this log for the actual manifold boost, but for the plot I overlaid yesterday's boost log onto the rpm axis of today's data and also put in the calculated pressure ratio.

pheno, drive pressure is how much pressure is on the exhaust side of the turbo that drives the turbine which pushes the cold side air into the manifold ... if your turbo goes off it's compressor map this ratio gets high and spells trouble for the health of the turbo ... which is why some of us are doing wastegate mods to help relieve the excess pressure ratio caused by overboost when we open up the exhaust.

I would've liked to have had the pressure ratio with the OEM intercooler to compare with the VRSF IC ... but alas, I had logged the wrong thing (damn you AssModMan!).

AssModMan strikes again!

Thanks for the explanation! The graph looks interesting although I'm not an expert and can not say much about that Anyway, it's exciting to see that it's possible to log pretty much every sensor on DDE. It's possibe now in Testo to do calculations based on other sensor values. DWR has already posted some ideas how to utilize that.

What does compressor map actually tell us ? Would it be possible to "see" where we are in the turbo's compressor map since we know many values like boost&drive pressures etc.

[pheno]

TDIwyse, could you run this job in the picture and post results ? I'm still wondering about your sampling rate which I think that should be much faster.

[TDIwyse]

Originally Posted by pheno

AssModMan strikes again!

Thanks for the explanation! The graph looks interesting although I'm not an expert and can not say much about that Anyway, it's exciting to see that it's possible to log pretty much every sensor on DDE. It's possibe now in Testo to do calculations based on other sensor values. DWR has already posted some ideas how to utilize that.

What does compressor map actually tell us ? Would it be possible to "see" where we are in the turbo's compressor map since we know many values like boost&drive pressures etc.

:-)

There's been some compressor map's posted earlier in this thread, but here's (I think) the compressor map for our "big" turbo. Any Pressure Ratio (basically absolute boosted pressure at the turbo outlet divided by the absolute pressure at the inlet of the turbo) over ~ 3300 mbar at low flow rates is off the map. And this is at the turbo, so any pressure drop across the air filter and pressure drop across the intercooler/charge pipe/intake manifold makes this pressure ratio increase... So if we measure ~3300 mbar at the MAP sensor we've definitely gone off the map.

As the engine rpm's rise and the flow increases, the turbo needs lower PR to operate safely. So if you're measuring more than ~3000 mbar at the upper rpm's you're pushing the safe operating region of the turbo. And if your IC/intake is dropping more and more pressure as the air flow increases ... again, you're further off the map and over stressing the turbo.

If you go off the map, the compressor "drive pressure" or "back pressure" to boost pressure usually increases dramatically, as does IAT's, as the turbine has to be driven harder and harder to make boost because it's going outside of its capability and operating in an increasingly inefficient manner.

At least that's my understanding. But I'm not an expert. Hopefully someone who knows more can chime in. And I'd love to see some more plots of the drive pressure from others.

[TDIwyse]

Originally Posted by pheno

TDIwyse, could you run this job in the picture and post results ? I'm still wondering about your sampling rate which I think that should be much faster.

Well, I've started imbibing ... so it'll have to wait. Can you describe more on what this is supposed to do?

Also, is it possible my underpowered Win 8 tablet is causing some of the slowness? I'm seeing ~0.2msec time steps in the sampling rate. What type of resolution would you expect to see?

[DWR]

Originally Posted by TDIwyse

Think I found the correct job for drive pressure. Two values give basically the same result and are much more realistic to what I'd expect. Values are: STAT_Exh_pSensPTrbnUs_WERT and STAT_Exh_pTrbnUs_full_WERT.

Yep, I posted those in the INPA thread. Really need to get this stuff in an easy to access spot.

Very cool TDIwyse. You can really see the transition between the turbos. Looks like the EGW is doing a very nice job with the LP turbo. It seems to overcompensate a little with the HP turbo. That would make sense. Same amount of wastegate opening during the HP operation is going to bleed off a higher proportion of drive pressure.

[DWR]

Originally Posted by TDIwyse

Can you describe more on what this is supposed to do?

I believe Pheno is asking to see which communication protocol is being used. Some are faster than others.

[TDIwyse]

Originally Posted by DWR

Yep, I posted those in the INPA thread. Really need to get this stuff in an easy to access spot.

Very cool TDIwyse. You can really see the transition between the turbos. Looks like the EGW is doing a very nice job with the LP turbo. It seems to overcompensate a little with the HP turbo. That would make sense. Same amount of wastegate opening during the HP operation is going to bleed off a higher proportion of drive pressure.

Yeah, I just didn't know how to properly use the tool yet, and was overwhelmed with all the capability. Plus, pheno keeps updating the software faster than I can download and install the next version :-)

Agree about the low rpm/HP small turbo overcompensation as well. But I kinda like that as it also limits the low rpm torque/stress on the transmission because the A/F ratio min setpoint in the map keeps it from fueling so hard down low.

Also logged this 0 to 60 medium acceleration/medium rpm shift point run where the small turbo is the main boost source. Found it kinda interesting in regards to seeing the drive pressure of the small turbo during a more normal mode of operation. Also, I notice that when the vehicle is in over run mode (coasting in gear) the actual boost is over the setpoint. This would make sense since the boost maps are likely not active during over run. If I downshift in over run the set point to actual align as the rpm increases to match the shift (you can see this back on the log on post 176 during the time steps before the pull)...

[DWR]

Originally Posted by TDIwyse

Yeah, I just didn't know how to properly use the tool yet, and was overwhelmed with all the capability. Plus, pheno keeps updating the software faster than I can download and install the next version :-)

The guy is a dyamo. I'm just catching up with things I'm supposed to be testing ... lucky for me he was on vacation last week!

Agree about the low rpm/HP small turbo overcompensation as well. But I kinda like that as it also limits the low rpm torque/stress on the transmission because the A/F ratio min setpoint in the map keeps it from fueling so hard down low.

That's an interesting comment. Did you and Jarek work out those A/F limits - how do you know what they are?

Also, I notice that when the vehicle is in over run mode (coasting in gear) the actual boost is over the setpoint. This would make sense since the boost maps are likely not active during over run.

Actually, from a control viewpoint, that's how it has to be. Imagine if the setpoint did not lead the dropping boost during coastdown!

[35d]

What is the drive ratiobin testo called stat exh ptrbnus?

Iaknown I got a 4th gear pull logged
The map being used at the time was my remap with 3100 boost and a experiment in the n75 maps to try reduce the overboost. Low rpm it seems lower the boost then before but higher it still shoots dangerously high. Not sure if the dips at high rpm is the map or something others experinced while overboost too