[OC Guy]

AA isn't really earning points with me (or others I assume) for attacking Shiv. Whether it's warrantied or not, it shouldn't be done in a public forum. It's just not professional IMO. I think that this thread should've been locked a long time ago. Regardless, AA will be able to make $$$ elsewhere.

[lawdude]

Holy moly; this is a business ethics 101 thread? Maybe we should just start a new thread and find out which Vishnu, AA, and SplitSecond customers think they've been shafted by the company they bought from. I bet that would be one empty thread.

[SfValley335i]

Originally Posted by WilyB

Take a PC laptop and a PC desktop and open MS Word or Excel: you will have exactly the same screenshot, with two very different hardwares.

fyi

Xede has its own software to create/edit maps.

And so does haltech/Procede which both products use the same identical software. Except that Shiv changed the logo.
Therefore shiv uses the haltech software because his unit is made by haltech.

I'm not trying to bash Procede, its a damn good product but at the end it is a haltech unit which you can purchase for much cheaper than shiv sells it for and you could upload the maps of your choice. (provided you know to work computers)

[homerunball]

Originally Posted by Sparky66

I'm don't have any vested interest in either party neither am I a "mid 20's horsepower freak or Fanboy"- just stating the facts.
If Vishnu takes a firm stance and position to protect its' business dealings, why should they have to disclose who their supplier is, let alone how they programs their ECU's. Maybe Shiv should give us his pin to his bank accounts- now that would help. He has tried to answer as many questions as possible in numerous threads and has many happy customers to boot, pre 355 and pro.
To be honest ,under the circumstances, he has handled the barrage of crap that has been hurled his way in a very eloquent manner - but certain parties arrogantly persist in asking questions that he doesn't feel compelled to answer. Is it that hard for some people fathom.

First of all Sparky, some of your comments are not FACTS. Some of your anologies also do not make sense and your useless attempt at humor is not funny. If "programming and application" is the only thing that counts, why do you even upgrade hardware? Hardware and software go hand in hand.

Some of the comments from Vishnu are not strictly standing behind their product and some are downright contradictory. It is not what has happened, but how it is handled.

And yes he has answered many questions and fended off attacks. Thats what you are supposed to do if you are in the business of making money. Your mindless unsubstantiated support and loyalty may win you a lot of friends and forum points but is useless. If you had a good experience, good for you, however, you have no right to tell anyone on this forum how they should think. Your characterization of Shiv has no value whatsoever and is not objective in the least. I have read fanboy comments like yours and completely opposite negative reviews but its only the fanboys who take up the fight for Shiv just like what you are doing now.

"Answer in an elequent manner"? Maybe to a fanboy like yourself its sounds professional, but I do not see any company with a dedicated customer support department answering questions with another question or a comment pointing to another post. Not having a customer support dept. is their choice and not an excuse.

I've never asked the question of who the supplier is but from a customer's perspective, if a company changes/upgrades suppliers, he or she is entitled to an explanation as to what the causes were for the change. (In your own business feel free to say, "I won't tell you who made it, who I got it from, but it works so take it or leave it.") If he feels that this is proprietary information that could cost his competitive edge, then he can say so, not give a run around. I laud the accomplishments by both tuners but I do not have to agree with every one of their beliefs. I have been an engineer all my life and I am certainly capable of making informed decisions based on facts. The last thing I need is some fanboys to tell me to shut up for asking questions and accept the mighty Procede/Xede or whatever. I am a potential customer in search of information not a fight, but I am disappointed at some of the comments by the respective companies and certainly frustrated at navigating through the useless fanboy comments like yours that dilute the discussion.

[SfValley335i]

Originally Posted by OC 335i

AA isn't really earning points with me (or others I assume) for attacking Shiv. Whether it's warrantied or not, it shouldn't be done in a public forum. It's just not professional IMO. I think that this thread should've been locked a long time ago. Regardless, AA will be able to make $$$ elsewhere.

AA would earn my money since they exposed Shiv and his bluffs. Not that they were a big deal, theres nothing wrong with useing a haltech product and not a chiptorque product.

But at the end of the day, Shiv lied about his unit and gave the run around without saying hes selling a relabled Haltech unit which costs ~$700

[Cornhusker]

This is by far the worst thread I have ever read.

Terry burger is a total loser, I have never before seen someone so willing to spend time to bash somebody.

It seems all he can do is bring negativity to everything, to make it worse, he posts constantly to make sure every thread is infused with his useless, annoying comments.

I have never seen a company so willing to publicly critisize another company over the most mundane of things. AA has shown to spend it's time using anything that any poster says against shiv is any way possible, basically feeding off the idiot comments to start shit in hopes of turning people against shiv. I own a businesses and it's obvious AA is sitting around their computers laughing at the bullshit their turning around on shiv. Meanwhile shiv is sitting at his getting pissed because what there doing is so obvious but he can't decide whether or not he should stoop to their level.

Guys, nobody's going to tell everyone how thier product works. Who cares.

This is the kind of shit that makes me want to spot visiting these forums anymore. How pathetic.

[OC Guy]

Originally Posted by SfValley335i

AA would earn my money since they exposed Shiv and his bluffs. Not that they were a big deal, theres nothing wrong with useing a haltech product and not a chiptorque product.

But at the end of the day, Shiv lied about his unit and gave the run around without saying hes selling a relabled Haltech unit which costs ~$700

So you can buy a haltech product, put it in your car, and make it work like a procede for $700? Is that what you are saying?

AA shouldn't have to attack others to get better business. In fact, neither side should.

Note: I do not own a Procede or AA product (nor do I have an order for one).

[Cornhusker]

Originally Posted by SfValley335i

AA would earn my money since they exposed Shiv and his bluffs. Not that they were a big deal, theres nothing wrong with useing a haltech product and not a chiptorque product.

But at the end of the day, Shiv lied about his unit and gave the run around without saying hes selling a relabled Haltech unit which costs ~$700

WHo cares if he buys it for 20.00. I could care less.


WHo cares is a company owner gives attempts not to disclose his secrets in order to prevent possible competition. This is so basic it's stupid. Of course aa doesn't care because everyone already knows what they have and from where, otherwise they would be responding in the same way, trying to keep it hidden, this is so basic it's retarded.

[ArmyBimmerDude]

Originally Posted by SfValley335i

AA would earn my money since they exposed Shiv and his bluffs. Not that they were a big deal, theres nothing wrong with useing a haltech product and not a chiptorque product.

But at the end of the day, Shiv lied about his unit and gave the run around without saying hes selling a relabled Haltech unit which costs ~$700

My question is, why did you need to know that its a Haltech relabeled product? Do you ask every vendor where the item they're selling is made? Are you really that picky or is this more of a "Fan boy's against Shiv" thing?

By the way, where have you found the exact same haltech unit for $700?

[SfValley335i]

Originally Posted by OC 335i

So you can buy a haltech product, put it in your car, and make it work like a procede for $700? Is that what you are saying?

AA shouldn't have to attack others to get better business. In fact, neither side should.

Note: I do not own a Procede or AA product (nor do I have an order for one).

what i said can go both ways, anyone could get their hands on a blank Xede and flash it with AA tuning firmware and update the maps.

But you dont see AA tuning or RDsport saying their not selling you a Xede and try to cover up their product with a phony name and swear that the haltech would not work.

[Cornhusker]

Originally Posted by SfValley335i

AA would earn my money since they exposed Shiv and his bluffs. Not that they were a big deal, theres nothing wrong with useing a haltech product and not a chiptorque product.

But at the end of the day, Shiv lied about his unit and gave the run around without saying hes selling a relabled Haltech unit which costs ~$700

You don't know this for a fact. Maybe he has just one part that was added, that totally changes it. Who knows. You don't.

ONce again, who's more likely to try to avoid answering something that can directly effect whether or not they can pay the bills, someone who has nothing to lose(aa)? Or someone who has thousands to lose(procede)?

I find it rude that you guys would even ask something like that. It's like, how would you like it if someone asked you to answer a question knowing that answering it could cause you to lost alot of money. That's just rude, I would kick someone out of my house for that. Unless you are a reporter of course. I guess we've got terry burger covering the reporting duties now.
It's so obvious that I can't even believe that I have to write that it's so obvious, it's hurts just writing it.

[Terry335]

Originally Posted by AB Tek 818

Terry: so why did you buy the AA xede package rather than a blank xede unit?

I don't want to reinvent the wheel! I'd rather buy something that works great and tweak it for my requirements. At least AA is upfront about the device they use, while Shiv is "posing" as a manufacture. To the point that he invented his own file extension.

Anyway the Interceptor is a great product, and the Xede is a great product. I'll let the real manufactures debate the merits of each, but for my $.02 the Xede fits the bill and costs less.

[RiXst3r]

Originally Posted by Terry335

I don't want to reinvent the wheel! I'd rather buy something that works great and tweak it for my requirements. At least AA is upfront about the device they use, while Shiv is "posing" as a manufacture. To the point that he invented his own file extension.

I don't want to reinvent the wheel! I'd rather buy something that works great and tweak it for my requirements. At least AA is upfront about the device they use, where as Shiv is "posing" as a manufacture. To the point that he invented his own file extension.

whoa... dejavu...

you said the same paragraph twice, and changed "while" to "where as"... catscan anyone...

[Terry335]

Originally Posted by OC 335i

So you can buy a haltech product, put it in your car, and make it work like a procede for $700? Is that what you are saying?

AA shouldn't have to attack others to get better business. In fact, neither side should.

Note: I do not own a Procede or AA product (nor do I have an order for one).

Maybe, maybe not. My point wasn't to do it cheaper, just that

A) The procede is a Haltech Interceptor and
B) Software is available for those Interceptor users that want to tweak things

[SfValley335i]

Originally Posted by ArmyBimmerDude

My question is, why did you need to know that its a Haltech relabeled product? Do you ask every vendor where the item they're selling is made? Are you really that picky or is this more of a "Fan boy's against Shiv" thing?

By the way, where have you found the exact same haltech unit for $700?

if you read my post slowly, you'll see i said "~$700" which means around/roughly $700.

No i do not care if the procede was a relabled haltech, but Shiv did lose my trust when he lied about their product. He's selling a product and is lying to everyone saying its not a haltech when it is. It's not a big deal but trust is a big thing and he has Zero now.

I'm glad these posts came about, it brought out the truth to why Shiv had that sudden change from Xede to Procede.

[Terry335]

Originally Posted by RiXst3r

whoa... dejavu...

you said the same paragraph twice, and changed "while" to "where as"... catscan anyone...

Grammer checker copy gone wrong.

[WilyB]

What's wrong with subcontracting PROcede manufacturing to 3rd world countries anyway?



Ok, just kidding guys. I love Outback Steakhouse.

[SfValley335i]

Originally Posted by AB Tek 818

Terry: so why did you buy the AA xede package rather than a blank xede unit?

That question was for Terry but I'll answer it from my point of view.

I would have bought a blank xede or haltech right now but unfortunately we're still not at the point where we can flash the units with updated firmware and maps. Once/if that becomes available Im sure most users at that time will take advantage of the much cheaper route.

[lawdude]

A well-to-do lady needed a hat for a special occassion and she needed it for that evening. After trying all the upscale millineries without success, she went to a design shop. She told the owner what she needed and asked if he could help.

The designer grabbed a large section of ribbon and began to weave his magic on the customer's head.

When finished he asked, "Will that do?"

The astonished customer said "That's perfect; just what I was looking for. How much do I owe you?"

"That'll be $500.00."

"$500.00 for a piece of ribbon?"

"Madaam," said the designer as he unraveled the ribbon and handed it to her, "the ribbon is free."

Moral of the story: If it's worth it to you to do your own software, that's one thing. But if you're going to use another man's intellectual property, you should pay him for it.

[Omar@ActiveAutowerke]

I have been looking around these forums for quite sometime now. Shiv has gone in on everyones thread from Jeff with the Turbo Tuner to TMS's Reflash and our Xede unit and he has posted negative comments on each one. I have simply clarified a couple issues and now I am accused of "attacking" a company. I have known all of this information from the beginning and chose to post it now because if I didnt I felt that there would been pages and pages with the same questions. We have all figured out the information we wanted to know and the last question was regarding the Haltech Interceptor.... and I answered that one posting facts.

He kept implying that he dropped Xede and that is not true. I will not go into details unless I have to. He also said that the Xede is an inferior product that leads you to believe thats the reason why he supposedly dropped them. Xede is more than enough for you BMW 335, we would not use an inferior product.

I am not hear to mislead anyone or let you believe we designed a box. Now there are a ton of threads popping up that could have been prevented by the TRUTH being posted from day one.

I dont agree with holding back from customers and I also I dont feel the need to lie to customers...... and when customers are asking for answers I feel the need to deliver.

Many of you are asking why we spend our day here on the forums, it is simple. Our goal is to see what the customers want and give it to them. We are not the same individuals in charge of making harnesses and tuning these processors. That is handled by our Technical/Engineering department. This gives time for the sales staff to answer in a timely fashion to everyones questions with facts. We have shipped a decent amount of these out and we are shipping them in a timely fashion (1-3 days). There are a couple customers here who have benefited from that.

My final impressions are that at the end of the day the consumer needs to make their choice. All I can tell you is that with us you know what you are getting and we will get it to you fast!

I apologize for those of you who feel that any of our post were aggressive in any manner, but everything we posted was factual and hopefully we can all continue on a postive note from here.

[SfValley335i]

Originally Posted by lawdude

Moral of the story: If it's worth it to you to do your own software, that's one thing. But if you're going to use another man's intellectual property, you should pay him for it.

Welcome to USA, no one pays for another mans work if its not a must. Thats why theres so much pirating going on. And I'm sure if theres a need theres a will for someone to pull the firmware/maps from Procede and dump them on a Haltech.

but it would've been great if the world was so "clean"

[bnj]

Originally Posted by Cornhusker

This is by far the worst thread I have ever read.

Terry burger is a total loser, I have never before seen someone so willing to spend time to bash somebody.

It seems all he can do is bring negativity to everything, to make it worse, he posts constantly to make sure every thread is infused with his useless, annoying comments.

I have never seen a company so willing to publicly critisize another company over the most mundane of things. AA has shown to spend it's time using anything that any poster says against shiv is any way possible, basically feeding off the idiot comments to start shit in hopes of turning people against shiv. I own a businesses and it's obvious AA is sitting around their computers laughing at the bullshit their turning around on shiv. Meanwhile shiv is sitting at his getting pissed because what there doing is so obvious but he can't decide whether or not he should stoop to their level.

Guys, nobody's going to tell everyone how thier product works. Who cares.

This is the kind of shit that makes me want to spot visiting these forums anymore. How pathetic.

You name someone as a total loser and accuse others of bashing? In reality the manufacturers have not been bashing each other products too much. Show me the threads.