[Taskmaster]

You don't need Motec and you don't want to ditch the vanos.

[justpete]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

how can somebody sell a cam without sharing the lift and duration? you don't even know what you're getting. usually you choose a cam based on what RPM you want your power band to be in, what your compression ratio is, etc. every other manufacturer on the planet publishes at least those two numbers.

it might be possible to measure it inside the engine with a dial indicator.

Shit if I know.

Hmmm, yeah, didn't think of that. I've got a BesTest 7030-S and a B&S mini magnetic holder that would work. Nothing magnetic to clamp it to though I think.

[justpete]

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

You don't need Motec and you don't want to ditch the vanos.

Might not but everybody does.

[hassmaschine]

the head bolts should be steel. or make some sort of steel plate that bolts to the valve cover holes. a cheap piece of flat bar with a couple holes drilled wouldn't be too hard.

[justpete]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

also, I don't think TunerPro can read the dme directly. It's just used to edit the files. TunerPro also can't calculate the checksum, although a plug in could be made to do that at some point.

I was thinking an OFT could capture the file for TunerPro to work with, is this correct? Oh wait, checksum. That's a problem. Without a means to do that editing the file is pointless, is this correct?

[justpete]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

the head bolts should be steel. or make some sort of steel plate that bolts to the valve cover holes. a cheap piece of flat bar with a couple holes drilled wouldn't be too hard.

Good thinking!

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by justpete

Might not but everybody does.

You can use something far cheaper like AEM EMS (they use them in the S54B32, works fine) and can be tuned by anyone.

And vanos is a great thing, I think they reason they delete it is complications tuning it.

[justpete]

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

You can use something far cheaper like AEM EMS (they use them in the S54B32, works fine) and can be tuned by anyone.

And vanos is a great thing, I think they reason they delete it is complications tuning it.

Agreed there are other options but MoTeC seems to be the most common when a team has beaucoup coin.

And weight and reliability under race conditions and requirements for a complex constant volume oil pump, etc., etc.

[hassmaschine]

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

You can use something far cheaper like AEM EMS (they use them in the S54B32, works fine) and can be tuned by anyone.

And vanos is a great thing, I think they reason they delete it is complications tuning it.

the stock DME is much more capable than most aftermarket stuff though, especially anything that is affordable.

I mean, you're talking about spending $3000+ (even for a "cheap" standalone) to save a few couple hundred on hardware to flash and measurements..

[justpete]

OK, all clear, will receive the needed cam profile data. But I won't post it or transfer it to anyone, it's only fair. Will order a new OFT, if possible, and work my way through editing the tune. Toldja it was a science experiment...

[Mike.]

Originally Posted by justpete

OK, all clear, will receive the needed cam profile data. But I won't post it or transfer it to anyone, it's only fair. Will order a new OFT, if possible, and work my way through editing the tune. Toldja it was a science experiment...

christ so now if we get cams we're going to have to go through this?!

[justpete]

Originally Posted by Mike.

christ so now if we get cams we're going to have to go through this?!

I don't think it'll end up being this much trouble, hard to say. Sometimes it's just not as easy as one would hope. For instance you can't make significant use of headers without a tune so there's a complication there too.

We're talking about Valvetronic (spit!) here so it's bound to be complicated although honestly I didn't expect it to be this much of a pita. Hass did though, he saw it coming exactly as it played out. Smart guy.

If all it takes is snagging an OFT and editing a few numbers provided with the cams and the process produces a decent amount of power it's not that expensive in the end since you'd be left with a tool you can tweak the DME with and datalog, etc. I guess not everyone wants to do this sort of stuff but the alternative is some seriously complex mechanical work and loss of street drivability. As if my car has any drivability left in it...

[justpete]

Originally Posted by Mike.

christ so now if we get cams we're going to have to go through this?!

Oh yeah, and swapping cams is a helluva lotta work and fairly twitchy. Cost me $1640 with my hefty labor discount at the shop to have it done. Looking at all that had to be done and done carefully with special tools I personally wouldn't even think of touching it. There are however many on this board who could, just wanted to make it clear it's not a trivial task.

[Mike.]

Originally Posted by justpete

Oh yeah, and swapping cams is a helluva lotta work and fairly twitchy. Cost me $1640 with my hefty labor discount at the shop to have it done. Looking at all that had to be done and done carefully with special tools I personally wouldn't even think of touching it. There are however many on this board who could, just wanted to make it clear it's not a trivial task.

My shop is pretty good, to install headers was only like 400 I think, I think im going there monday to chit chat with him about brakes.. I wonder how much he would charge me

[justpete]

OFT ordered.

[631twentyeighteye]

Can the OFT be used at all with custom tuning in the sort that Hass is doing?

[justpete]

Originally Posted by 631twentyeighteye

Can the OFT be used at all with custom tuning in the sort that Hass is doing?

Yep

[SDemetris]

This is going to quickly become a huge money sink. You should just switch back to stock unless you want to blow more money to get back to the power levels you had before.

[justpete]

Originally Posted by SDemetris

This is going to quickly become a huge money sink. You should just switch back to stock unless you want to blow more money to get back to the power levels you had before.

With just about a hundred grand in the car already this is in the noise. Besides, it's fun. For all I know the cams are not degreed correctly, too. And we're looking at that now.

[hassmaschine]

Yeah, now that i think about it i believe the cam is too advanced which is why your torque curve shifted left and HP dropped. It would be better to retard the timing and use vanos to advance it at low rpm.

[justpete]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

Yeah, now that i think about it i believe the cam is too advanced which is why your torque curve shifted left and HP dropped. It would be better to retard the timing and use vanos to advance it at low rpm.

Thinking you're right. Checking with the shop now (really) to see if they need to be retimed. Would explain a lot if the cams weren't supposed to be installed as if they were stock cams.

[_Ryan_]

Originally Posted by justpete

Hass is helping out here too so might be a chance, we'll see. Would hate to have to swap the stock cams back in.

Have you and Hass considered using his definitions with the BB tool (or similar?) which is open source?