[ezatnova]

Originally Posted by 4 Diamonds

ezatnova
Sorry. I was answering a question from iScream re dyno. I have spoken to BMWNA many times. They call my cell phone, leave a message and call me back in 20 minutes and cuss me out for not answering their call immediately. Nice. Hi Eileen.

OMG, lol. Do you ignore them on purpose or just by chance?
Call our boy Dan or Jared!

[ezatnova]

Originally Posted by Cobu

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=321004

First, he says it has V32, which I think is impossible and does not exist on Planet Earth.
Second, I don't care about any opinion until someone here who has the definitive lag right now gets into a 2009 and tests it. We need an educated direct comparrison.

[Manboy]

Originally Posted by ezatnova

First, he says it has V32, which I think is impossible and does not exist on Planet Earth.
Second, I don't care about any opinion until someone here who has the definitive lag right now gets into a 2009 and tests it. We need an educated direct comparrison.

+1

[meyergru]

Originally Posted by clivem2

Given that the tubes are very flexible and easy to compress the clips BMW use are the wrong type, they ought to use figure of 8 clips, threading the tubes through them. I had no sharp bends but there was some compression. I've bent the clips to release some of the pressure. I feel there is more of a power rush now - not wanting to discuss lag.....but this almost feels more like a lag as when then power comes in now there seems to be more of it. It's chucking it down with rain, my next plan will have to wait. I'll go for a drive with the tubes totally free of the clips. I'm not thinking this fully fixes anything, it's just another variable. More of an interesting tweak.

So it seems I was not experiencing a placebo effect. My car is almost back to normal without the compression by the clips. It took the DME a while to adapt, too.

I wondered what if BMW was correct in stating that they changed wastegate response but the driver should not get aware of that? I doubt that they did not test the change before releasing it.

With DME software < v29.2, there is no change in wastegate when you accelerate, because it is almost closed even at 1000 RPM. There is no fast change of wastegate position, so restrictions in the tubes can have no effect.

With the changes of v29.2, the wastegates are open at 1000 RPM and should get closed quickly when you accelerate. If there are any restrictions in the tubes, the response to the input impulse will be delayed. Tube restriction could be one of the "triggering conditions" that make some cars behave worse than others. Among those conditions, there could also be stiff wastegate actuators.

Also, I think that BMW has seen that some cars (e.g. mine) have deviations in wastegate response time due to these conditions and will now release a software where the wastegates are more closed at low RPM than they are now.

I'm not saying everything is fine yet, but this might explain why some people say they have no Lag - maybe their cars do not have any conditions that slow down the wastegate response.

[clivem2]

I need more time to come to a more committed conclusion but the indications are good. Now that I think about it I remember E90Fan on the UK forum mentioning vacuum, here's what he said:

We are still refining the vacuum pressure and position of the actuators, but once that is done I am totally confident the car will be as good as ever.

[meyergru]

Originally Posted by clivem2

I need more time to come to a more committed conclusion but the indications are good. Now that I think about it I remember E90Fan on the UK forum mentioning vacuum, here's what he said:

We are still refining the vacuum pressure and position of the actuators, but once that is done I am totally confident the car will be as good as ever.

Interesting. Do you have a link to the thread / forum?

[clivem2]

Originally Posted by meyergru

Interesting. Do you have a link to the thread / forum?

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178314

Also look for his posts here - btw it's E92Fan not E90Fan - my mistake.

[clivem2]

Originally Posted by meyergru

My car is almost back to normal without the compression by the clips.

Have you just reduced the pressure exerted by the clips or completely freed the tubes from the clips? To remove most of the pressure on the rear tube for me results in the front one dropping out. Probably I need to bend the clips so they have a different profile.

I hope several others will try easing the vacuum tubes so we can hear other experiences.

[Erregend]

Hey Guys & Gals,

I'm glad the hours I spent digging through the BMW TIS documents may have had led to a positive result for some of you.

I haven't posted much about my personal N54 experience as I don't THINK I suffer the reduced torque problem
even though my April 10 build date would indicate that I have 29.2 (and likely MSD81). In any gear (6mt) I
can floor it at around 1200 RPM and feel the thrust start ~1500 and hold pretty steady through ~5000. I did
test drive an '07 but it was in Fall of 2007 so I am unable to remember any quantitative difference.

I completed my breakin while still in France and drove it "sprightly" on the AutoRoutes and I don't remember any
difference in the way it drove then versus now. I don't think the VPC or PDC applied any firmware changes before I got it
back even though they did add the alarm system at the PDC and had to hook my car up to their computer to program in the alarm.

As I noted in an earlier post, BMW is on (at least) their 4th revision of the turbo/wastegate unit. Maybe the later
ones are more resistant to the degradation or just have better quality control and maybe I have one of the
"better parts" and my vacuum hoses are not pinched. It should be also noted that TIS 111307 stated (not
necessarily to be believed) that the problem was on cars: "All with N54 engine from the start of production to
January 17th, 2008 production."

I just have a little over 6500 miles on the car so I may not have reached the point where degradation has set in for
me. I just hope for your sakes and mine that BMW solves the real problem soon and quits trying to hide it with a
Progman "de-tune".

[meyergru]

Originally Posted by clivem2

Have you just reduced the pressure exerted by the clips or completely freed the tubes from the clips? To remove most of the pressure on the rear tube for me results in the front one dropping out. Probably I need to bend the clips so they have a different profile.

I hope several others will try easing the vacuum tubes so we can hear other experiences.

I have bent the clips open to exert less pressure on the tubes. Also, I have pulled a little at the input tubes (the ones with the fabric wrapped around them). There are four clips on the top and I have seen one down low which is hidden where the front part of the input tube goes to. I could not reach that to loosen the clip but the tube moved a bit when I pulled it.

[mistermojorizin]

can one of you guys please post a diy for the vacum line thing with pictures. i don't know where they are located and how you get to them.

[Erregend]

Originally Posted by mistermojorizin

can one of you guys please post a diy for the vacum line thing with pictures. i don't know where they are located and how you get to them.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...postcount=2473

Looking at engine from front of car, hoses are clipped to the front edge
of the coolant reservoir on left side. Follow them to accumulators towards
the front and to solenoids to back and right.

[mistermojorizin]

Originally Posted by Erregend

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...postcount=2473

Looking at engine from front of car, hoses are clipped to the front edge
of the coolant reservoir on left side. Follow them to accumulators towards
the front and to solenoids to back and right.

thanks. i played around with the clips - I opened them up took out the top hose, made sure the bottom hose had wiggle, pushed/rocked the clip back and forth to make it more loose, moved the hoses around to give them a little more slack. then i put the top hoses back in. I don't think that i actually made the clips any looser though - i mean they are elastic, so no matter how much i pushed and rocked they sprung back. anyway, no difference in the lag.

[meyergru]

Originally Posted by mistermojorizin

thanks. i played around with the clips - I opened them up took out the top hose, made sure the bottom hose had wiggle, pushed/rocked the clip back and forth to make it more loose, moved the hoses around to give them a little more slack. then i put the top hoses back in. I don't think that i actually made the clips any looser though - i mean they are elastic, so no matter how much i pushed and rocked they sprung back. anyway, no difference in the lag.

Those in the 335i are not elastic, the are made of metal and rather thick and exert much force on the tubes. In my case, one was bent closed more than the others and left a mark on the outside of the tube.

Also, as I said, there may be other factors than restricted tubes that influence wastegate reponse behaviour. E.g., as there are 4 part numbers for turbos (including wastegates and actuators), there may well be parts that are worse than others.

I agree with E92Fan in the UK regional forum that v31.1 is better than v29 or v30. All we say is that with v31.1 and no conditions that hamper wastegate reponse, the cars seem "almost normal".

[mistermojorizin]

Originally Posted by meyergru

Those in the 335i are not elastic, the are made of metal and rather thick and exert much force on the tubes. In my case, one was bent closed more than the others and left a mark on the outside of the tube.

Also, as I said, there may be other factors than restricted tubes that influence wastegate reponse behaviour. E.g., as there are 4 part numbers for turbos (including wastegates and actuators), there may well be parts that are worse than others.

I agree with E92Fan in the UK regional forum that v31.1 is better than v29 or v30. All we say is that with v31.1 and no conditions that hamper wastegate reponse, the cars seem "almost normal".

hmmm...mine are metal also, but they can be unclipped by pushingon them and then they spring back.

[clivem2]

Originally Posted by mistermojorizin

hmmm...mine are metal also, but they can be unclipped by pushingon them and then they spring back.

The clips are springy but with quite strong force, pushing them quite a long way I managed to make mine bend.

[clivem2]

Originally Posted by meyergru

I have bent the clips open to exert less pressure on the tubes. Also, I have pulled a little at the input tubes (the ones with the fabric wrapped around them). There are four clips on the top and I have seen one down low which is hidden where the front part of the input tube goes to. I could not reach that to loosen the clip but the tube moved a bit when I pulled it.

The tubes dropping down from the t-pieces of the fabric covered tubes on my car have a small bend in them, probably I'm getting too anal about this now, having loosened things some more with a cold engine (so I don't burn myself) I'll drive the car later to see if there are any changes.

I currently have 30.0.2 with a commitment from my delivering dealer to update my s/w if I'm not happy(if they live up to it). I'm thinking I should wait for V32.

[Manboy]

My cabel did not seem to sit tight with the clips but rather loose actually.

Anyway, there was no change in engine output after setting the cabel free from the clips. Still no action below 3300rpm.

[clivem2]

Originally Posted by Pavel

My cabel did not seem to sit tight with the clips but rather loose actually.

Anyway, there was no change in engine output after setting the cabel free from the clips. Still no action below 3300rpm.

Pavel, is it that your car developed a hardware failure following the software somehow being reset to close the wastegates at low revs? I think the tubes tweaking is just the icing on the cake, it won't cure a big problem like yours, though I'm sure we all wished it did.

[E92Fan]

Right then... time for an update


In previous posts, I alluded to the vacuum pressures and actuator positions being refined on my car, with a view to minimising any potential lag/engine response issues, and to see what would happen with the engine setup to its best possible state.

To backtrack a little, the actuator problem (ie rattling) is caused by poor positioning and the wastegate diaphragm not sealing properly against the turbo body. We know all this already, and we know that BMW released V29.2 software to open the wastegates below 3000 revs to reduce the rattling.

However, it has since been discovered that the actuators themselves have possible defects, with them losing position, seizing up in their mechanical travel, and losing vacuum pressure. The latest PUMA update instructs dealers to update software to the latest version (V31.1) and if that fails to reduce the rattling, then to replace and install new actuators.

The installation isn't difficult, although it is exceptionally time consuming as access to remove the turbos is not easy. The main problem however comes in the setting up of the new actuators.

Techs are required to use a special calibrated vacuum device which simulates the correct vacuum pressure on the wastegate, pulling it shut with the correct force, so that the actuators can be lined up properly to provide correct sealing. What happens is that the current ambient pressure in the service area is measured, then the vacuum device set to provide a vacuum pressure 200 millibars less than ambient. However, this is where the first problem arose.

BMW UK recently issued a request for ALL the vacuum devices in use in dealerships around the UK to be sent back to Bracknell for testing. They had discovered, through the work being done on my car, that some of the vacuum machines were calibrated incorrectly, and therefore not producing the correct vacuum required to setup the actuators!!

Of all the vacuum devices sent back to BMW UK at Bracknell, and that is in excess of 30 machines, only THREE passed!!! Even the machines at BMW UK were out of calibration. So all those cars that have had actuators replaced, are most likely to be suffering from the same problems, because the actuators have not been reset properly!! We discovered this the first time the work was being done on my car - at full vacuum pressure, the actuators were still 4mm from sealing against the turbo body..!

We had to wait for new machines to be sent from Germany, and then to reset my car all over again. This calibration issue is probably applicable to units elsewhere in the world - it is worth checking with your local dealers that the machines are in tolerance...!

Coming to the setup -

The actuator placement is setup so that when the vacuum is applied, the wastegate diaphragm has to seal against the body of the turbo "with enough force so that it can just be rotated using only the tips of thumb and finger" Herein lies the next problem - a diaphragm that is hard for one tech to turn with the tips of thumb and finger is easy to turn for another tech... The actuator positioning is entirely arbitrary, and when setting up the system on my car, we had two master techs, two senior techs, and myself trying to decide how it should be set. In the end, we decided to err on the side of tighter than looser, and rebuilt the engine for testing.

With the engine now rebuilt, the software upgraded to V31.1 and all adaptations reset, I went on a 200 mile test drive. I did everything - WOT runs, long pulls in 3rd from 20mph to redline, 6th gear pulls from 1500 revs... and I will state this - there is absolutely, categorically, ZERO incidence of turbo lag. Throttle response is almost instant, and pull from 1200 revs in second gear to redline is completely and utterly seamless, with no steps in power delivery, no surges, no hiccups, and certainly no lag. The same can be said in third gear and fourth gear. The top two gears are as efficient and effortless as ever.

The difference between V31.1 with a completely accurate setup, and V29.2 with dodgy actuators, is bigger than night and day. There may very well be a further update in V32 - I can't comment on that until I have the software installed later this year.

In the meantime, I am 400% happy with the way my car is performing. It's performance is back to it's staggering best, the fuel consumption averages 28mpg (UK gallons) on a fast run, and the exhaust has lost a little of the irritating drone that was a characteristic of V29.2

[clivem2]

Many thanks for taking the time to post your very interesting and detailed update. How about cars where the actuators have not been replaced? Is there any reason to think that the vacuum devices in the assembly plant are properly calibrated?

[Manboy]

this reminds me of my first two weeks with v31.0.
pls repost in two weeks.