Mike/Terry, can you please join this discussion?

InCityPhoto · 02-21-2011, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPSlick

Here is my edit with proof, buh bye.

Great post, this shows that the JB4 causes nothing more then "mild knocks" so mild that they don't seem to currently damaging N54's..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clap135

There is no ranges, if the knock sensor lower timing, it is because it sensed knock. Its just like me hitting you in the head with a metal bat.

I can nail you once and kill you, or i can tap you 1000 times and kill you, either way the bat is hitting your head, just like either way the car is knocking because it set up to use a timing curve for a stock car.

If you perfer a bat hitting your head lightly everytime you floor the car then more power to you. Personally I rather not get hit with a bat in the first place.

Or you could tap me 100,000 times, ill be fine, and you will be unable to figure out why

AltecBX · 02-21-2011, 03:01 PM

Lets find ways to inform users how to rectify the problem regardless the tune we use.

1. Low octane fuel = Use 93 Octane
2. Incorrect spark advance = ?
3. High cylinder pressure = Use Methanol
4. High intake temperatures = Larger FMIC
5. High backpressure = Catless downpipes

Jeff@TopGearSolutions · 02-21-2011, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InCityPhoto

Great post, this shows that the JB4 causes nothing more then "mild knocks" so mild that they don't seem to currently damaging N54's..

Actually no it doesnt show that at all.

It shows that the knock sensors can only handle MILD cases of knock.

So anything above stock boost would not be Mild. Even Mike himself mentioned that pushing more boost, lowers the safety in which the DME can handle knock.

Again, get a clue.

It's like a teaching a kid how to put the square block, in the square block Hole, but he keeps insisting there is way to get it in the round hole.

I'm not sure where you learned your background on engine tuning and advanced engine tuning, but you have failed the class sir, might I recommend a refresher course?

How many cars have you tuned?

Clap135 · 02-21-2011, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InCityPhoto

Great post, this shows that the JB4 causes nothing more then "mild knocks" so mild that they don't seem to currently damaging N54's..

Or you could tap me 100,000 times, ill be fine, and you will be unable to figure out why

Can i proove you wrong, whats your address, what size bat would you like me to use? You are just being stupid now.

InCityPhoto · 02-21-2011, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPSlick

Actually no it doesnt show that at all.

It shows that the knock sensors, can only handle MILD cases of knock.

So anything above stock boost would not be Mild. Even Mike himself mentioned that pushing more boost, lowers the safety in which the DME can handle knock.

Again, get a clue.

It's like a teaching a kid how to put the square block, in the square block Hole, but he keeps insisting there is way to get it in the round hole.

There is no data to support this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clap135

Can i proove you wrong, whats your address, what size bat would you like me to use? You are just being stupid now.

Once again, no need for personal attacks here.

Clap135 · 02-21-2011, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AltecBX

Lets find ways to inform users how to rectify the problem regardless the tune we use.

1. Low octane fuel = Use 93 Octane
2. Incorrect spark advance = ?
3. High cylinder pressure = Use Methanol
4. High intake temperatures = Larger FMIC
5. High backpressure = Catless downpipes

1. or lower timing/boost
2. Lower timing
3. Raise octane or lower boost/timing
4. lower boost or get a fmic/meth
5. lower boost, or free flowings mods.

Theres no one solution to any problem, they are work hand in hand.

Morpheus · 02-21-2011, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clap135

Please provide the defendants proof. Cause the plaintiff proof can be found in every single engine application

you already shot yourself in the foot on this one by demonstrating that a stock car knocks. I'm pretty sure BMW knows how to tune a N54. If you have some proof to the contrary other than "Knock is bad mmkay?" then by all means share it.

I used to follow each of your posts with interest and even made plans to switch to a Cobb, but this whole thread stinks. By your logic there should be at least hundreds of threads with "JBx ruined my motor". I want to believe, but to simply take your word for it against all other evidence puts me into the same group of "know nothings" you and your nutswingers are railing against here.

Please. Enlighten us.

Jeff@TopGearSolutions · 02-21-2011, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InCityPhoto

There is no data to support this.

Keep believing that.

I love how he always quotes half of what I say....

Answer the questions.

InCityPhoto · 02-21-2011, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPSlick

Keep believing that.

Feel free to show data supporting otherwise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPSlick

Keep believing that.

I love how he always quotes half of what I say....

Answer the questions.

Its because you keep editing your post.

Clap135 · 02-21-2011, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InCityPhoto

There is no data to support this.

Once again, no need for personal attacks here.

Its not a personal attack, you said i can hit you in the head with a bat 100k times and I wont figure out why your are fine. I would like to proove to you, that you are wrong.

Jeff@TopGearSolutions · 02-21-2011, 03:07 PM

Does anyone else besides incityphoto have any questions since we have already answered his 45X over. He is on my ignore list because hes stubborn. He is simply here to derail the thread.

Morpheus · 02-21-2011, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPSlick

Feel free to send us "links" of proof of no failsafes. Oh wise one.

I'm not the one standing up on a soapbox. I'm just calling bullshit where I see it. Fight bullshit with bullshit. I guess that's as good a motto as any.

InCityPhoto · 02-21-2011, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clap135

Its not a personal attack, you said i can hit you in the head with a bat 100k times and I wont figure out why your are fine. I would like to proove to you, that you are wrong.

As stated in thread #399 you actually mentioned killing me... Hmm..

shifterboy45 · 02-21-2011, 03:09 PM

i guess everybody is either slaying dragons, or running the gauntlet.

this has been very uninformative for the most part -- if someone could see the forest for the trees we could get somewhere--

at least thats what i think...

laying out engine operation basics and then overlay the principles used by the tune to enhance performance using safe practice guidelines could resolve this whole thing quickly.

InCityPhoto · 02-21-2011, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shifterboy45

i guess everybody is either slaying dragons, or running the gauntlet.

this has been very uninformative for the most part -- if someone could see the forest for the trees we could get somewhere--

at least thats what i think...

laying out engine operation basics and then overlay the principles used by the tune to enhance performance using safe practice guidelines could resolve this whole thing quickly.

If you want actual information contact the two manufactures independently.

Jeff@TopGearSolutions · 02-21-2011, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morpheus

I'm not the one standing up on a soapbox. I'm just calling bullshit where I see it. Fight bullshit with bullshit. I guess that's as good a motto as any.

Do the search, or show me your proof, I'm not asking you to reinvent the wheel. For some reason this community believes in hand outs, well I dont.

I did my research, now do yours.

Morpheus · 02-21-2011, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shifterboy45

i guess everybody is either slaying dragons, or running the gauntlet.

this has been very uninformative for the most part -- if someone could see the forest for the trees we could get somewhere--

at least thats what i think...

laying out engine operation basics and then overlay the principles used by the tune to enhance performance using safe practice guidelines could resolve this whole thing quickly.

I agree. If he wanted to humiliate someone he should have just started a "yo momma...." thread.

Mike@N54Tuning.com · 02-21-2011, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianMN

I'm not talking about the evolution of technology. I'm talking about proper tuning vs. improper. The proper tunes (Not sure on procede's history, but at least V3- 3 years ago) have all done something to offset ignition set points. Yours, on the other hand has gone on all this time without it.

The other tunes have had the proper technology from the getgo...your's hasn't and still doesn't.

I don't give a shit how much prices are....the market will stabilize it, and that's a laughable argument to begin with.

I think you're confused. This thread shows the timing advance system used by the all the JB tunes over the years, since JB1, safely retards timing under higher boost levels. I think the frustration from your side comes from the fact that the JB method works well, as evidenced by the thousands using it since 2007, yet you can't get your head around why it works and why there are not major engine failures all over the place with it.

Mike

Morpheus · 02-21-2011, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPSlick

Do the search, or show me your proof, I'm not asking you to reinvent the wheel.

look in the first post where a stock motor is knocking Mr. Goodwrench.

Clap135 · 02-21-2011, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morpheus

you already shot yourself in the foot on this one by demonstrating that a stock car knocks. I'm pretty sure BMW knows how to tune a N54. If you have some proof to the contrary other than "Knock is bad mmkay?" then by all means share it.

I used to follow each of your posts with interest and even made plans to switch to a Cobb, but this whole thread stinks. By your logic there should be at least hundreds of threads with "JBx ruined my motor". I want to believe, but to simply take your word for it against all other evidence puts me into the same group of "know nothings" you and your nutswingers are railing against here.

Please. Enlighten us.

A stock care knocks at stock boost in those horrible conditions. What is you point, thats the point of the knock sensor, to save the engine incase the customer finds himself driving in abnormal conditions. If you don't believe a knocking engine is destroying it self, then i simply dont know what to tell you. However I will ask you one question.

Take two bran new 335is, put one in the arizona desert and floor it till it breaks

The the other one and put it upstate new york, and floore it till it breaks.

Which engine will break first, assuming the engines are identical? The only changing conditions is that one is running in conditions that allow the knock sensor to constally drop timing due to knock, and the other is limited by stock timing curve.

Brian135i · 02-21-2011, 03:12 PM

Wow...just read all 19 pages. I had a JB3, but now I have a Procede V5. (There is a reason for that.)

Move.Over · 02-21-2011, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clap135

3. High cylinder pressure
4. High intake temperatures
5. High backpressure

Theres a ton of variables.

6. Carbon Build up

02-21-2011, 03:01 PM	#376
AltecBX Colonel 344 Rep 2,663 Posts Drives: BMW 335xi Sedan; BMW M3 ZCP Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: NYC iTrader: (0) Garage List 2018 BMW M3 ZCP [0.00] 2007 BMW 335Xi [0.00]	Lets find ways to inform users how to rectify the problem regardless the tune we use. 1. Low octane fuel = Use 93 Octane 2. Incorrect spark advance = ? 3. High cylinder pressure = Use Methanol 4. High intake temperatures = Larger FMIC 5. High backpressure = Catless downpipes __________________ 335xi Sedan 6AT \| Weather(70-85°F) \| N54 Tune Comparison Chart \|\| N54 Turbo Upgrade Comparison Chart -PROcede Rev. 2.5 ~ v5 (3/17 maps) / JB4 (8/21 maps) / COBB (Stg2+FMIC LT Aggressive maps) †Procede Map2(UT 45 - IGN 40) Aggression Target 2.0 \| 0-60 in 4.0sec \|\| †Cobb E30 LT (35% Ethanol/65% 93 Octane) \| 0-60 in 3.9sec AR Design Catless DP \| BMS DCI + OCC \| ETS 5 FMIC \| Alpina B3 Trans Flash \|235/265 19" Michelin PSS
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02-21-2011, 03:07 PM	#385
Jeff@TopGearSolutions 3475 Rep 79,211 Posts Drives: C6 Z06, 09 335i, 10 335xi Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: www.TopGearSolutions.com iTrader: (37)	Does anyone else besides incityphoto have any questions since we have already answered his 45X over. He is on my ignore list because hes stubborn. He is simply here to derail the thread.
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02-21-2011, 03:09 PM	#388
shifterboy45 Major 23 Rep 1,179 Posts Drives: 2009 335i Coupe Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: North by Northwest iTrader: (0)	i guess everybody is either slaying dragons, or running the gauntlet. this has been very uninformative for the most part -- if someone could see the forest for the trees we could get somewhere-- at least thats what i think... laying out engine operation basics and then overlay the principles used by the tune to enhance performance using safe practice guidelines could resolve this whole thing quickly.
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02-21-2011, 03:12 PM	#395
Brian135i Lieutenant 49 Rep 469 Posts Drives: BMW 16' M3 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Oxnard, CA iTrader: (1) Garage List 2009 BMW 135i [0.00]	Wow...just read all 19 pages. I had a JB3, but now I have a Procede V5. (There is a reason for that.)
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