[Torgus]

The reason there are so few options is fueling was only just figured out. When I say figured out we all new PI was the solution but there was no off the shelf parts available. Because of that no single turbo was really useful unless you wanted to fuel it with shit tons of meth which isn't a good solution. So that is why singles are still rather new to the platform even though the 1st one was released around 2 years ago.

Since fueling has been taken care of a number of new ST kits have come to the market. As far as whining about price you have to be soft in the head to not see the BMW tax these kits are being given.

Look at what 8k on other platforms gives you. Very often 2 turbos and two manifolds. It also is usually more expensive to take an NA motor and add FI vs. an FI factory motor and changing the size of the turbo(s).

The good news is reasonably priced kits will be sooner than later. SteedSpeed's manifold that Motiv ripped off will be for sale for under 1k. Motiov refuses to sell their manifold alone...I wonder why...A company is making a turbo kit around the SS manifold which hopefully will be out this year I think that is MaxPSi. Another company plans to have one out for sale around 4k which is much more in line with other platforms. They are generally a domestic turbo company but supposedly will be building a kit and it it for sale.

So basically, normal priced kits will be available in the future.

Look at what the cost is for a turbo kit for a supra which has 1/10 of potential customers that the N54 has. The prices will come down in time. If you want a ST now you will have to pay the higher price.

[Stucks]

Originally Posted by Torgus

The reason there are so few options is fueling was only just figured out. When I say figured out we all new PI was the solution but there was no off the shelf parts available. Because of that no single turbo was really useful unless you wanted to fuel it with shit tons of meth which isn't a good solution. So that is why singles are still rather new to the platform even though the 1st one was released around 2 years ago.

Since fueling has been taken care of a number of new ST kits have come to the market. As far as whining about price you have to be soft in the head to not see the BMW tax these kits are being given.

Look at what 8k on other platforms gives you. Very often 2 turbos and two manifolds. It also is usually more expensive to take an NA motor and add FI vs. an FI factory motor and changing the size of the turbo(s).

The good news is reasonably priced kits will be sooner than later. SteedSpeed's manifold that Motiv ripped off will be for sale for under 1k. Motiov refuses to sell their manifold alone...I wonder why...A company is making a turbo kit around the SS manifold which hopefully will be out this year I think that is MaxPSi. Another company plans to have one out for sale around 4k which is much more in line with other platforms. They are generally a domestic turbo company but supposedly will be building a kit and it it for sale.

So basically, normal priced kits will be available in the future.

Look at what the cost is for a turbo kit for a supra which has 1/10 of potential customers that the N54 has. The prices will come down in time. If you want a ST now you will have to pay the higher price.

This.

[wgknestrick]

Preface this with:
I'm a mechanical design engineer with 15 years experience in 3d modeling in various industries (molding, CNC, industrial equipment, and medical devices).

Ideally for us to have more options (us = both N55 and N54 owners), we need a universal cast manifold that bolts up to both motors, across AWD and RWD cars, ATvsMTvsDCT, and on both 335 and 135 models. Now you open yourself to a large enough market that can support the volume required to get that cast manifold down to retail about $500-$750/ea. The other required accessories (ECU, fueling are basically solved or very close to being non-issues).

Packaging is super tight and there are tons of model variations that affect fitment. Stock N55 turbo spins the wrong way too.....don't underestimate what that does to kit design. Also its tough to convert twin turbo to single as you need to also supply a lot of custom plumbing with the kit.

Knowing that you have about .25"-1" clearance at most to the front suspension tower, engine mount, and drive shaft, this is why no one has done it yet. It is very tough to ensure proper fitment across so many modular variations. This just adds time and cost to the engineering of the manifold. It's tough just getting the cars to a point where you can test fitment of a turbo. Now do that over 7 (I may be missing one) different variations of cars.

A low mount (Motiv-eque design) is probably the best solution as it changes the least amount of things, but also has to solve the fact that a low mount lends itself to a CCW spin turbo (ie stock N55), not a standard CW. CCW turbos are very rare + $$$$. Designing a decent flowing manifold that has the collector so close to the engine block (what you need to do to get CW turbo to fit) is tough. This really makes you use short, sharp bends (or 180deg bend) to ensure you can fit that standard, large, CW turbo where BMW engineers ensured there was barely enough room to fit the tiny stock turbo(s)

It's tough, but that doesn't mean we can't solve it. I'm willing to personally help with any 3D modeling, scanning, and prototyping that I can offer. I have full access to every piece of software that SolidWorks makes through my wonderful employer Flow Sim too.

If I was able to design/build roller barrel throttle bodies and dual intake manifolds for my STI, I (we) can certainly handle this.

[Torgus]

We do need a cast manifold, even if you needed 4 versions for the various models it would sell fine given the large amount of N54s sold. Especially as they come down in price and anyone can easily afford one, with the bullet proof motor it currently has it should be the best platform imo. Better than an STI or Evo imo. But i'm partial.


We need kits like this for sale:
http://fsrmotorsports.com/index.php?...mart&Itemid=87

But yeah a cast manifold would be the balls. Until then I am perfectly fine with the steeds Speed manifold he is creating for us:

[Aerotest]

I would gladly pay $1k for a manifold like that.....no reason for a casting to save $250 IMO.

BTW great looking manifold.

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by Aerotest

I would gladly pay $1k for a manifold like that.....no reason for a casting to save $250 IMO.

True...


Steep speed manifold $1000 http://www.steedspeed.com/t3_and_t4_...iesel_manifold
Turbo $700-2000 depending on what you want. BW Airwerks are fine and inexpensive. Not everyone wants to run a 2k+ turbo.
Downpipe $500-700
Misc fittings, pipe, couplers, coolant, etc $1000(and that is way more than it needs to be)
so 3k or so, sell for 4k. make 1k. Repeat.

It will come. Just takes time.

[Allen@MOTIV]

You're right about one thing Torgus, the amount of misinformation in this thread is astounding.

[jonas]

Originally Posted by Torgus

The reason there are so few options is fueling was only just figured out. When I say figured out we all new PI was the solution but there was no off the shelf parts available. Because of that no single turbo was really useful unless you wanted to fuel it with shit tons of meth which isn't a good solution. So that is why singles are still rather new to the platform even though the 1st one was released around 2 years ago.

Since fueling has been taken care of a number of new ST kits have come to the market. As far as whining about price you have to be soft in the head to not see the BMW tax these kits are being given.

Look at what 8k on other platforms gives you. Very often 2 turbos and two manifolds. It also is usually more expensive to take an NA motor and add FI vs. an FI factory motor and changing the size of the turbo(s).

The good news is reasonably priced kits will be sooner than later. SteedSpeed's manifold that Motiv ripped off will be for sale for under 1k. Motiov refuses to sell their manifold alone...I wonder why...A company is making a turbo kit around the SS manifold which hopefully will be out this year I think that is MaxPSi. Another company plans to have one out for sale around 4k which is much more in line with other platforms. They are generally a domestic turbo company but supposedly will be building a kit and it it for sale.

So basically, normal priced kits will be available in the future.

Look at what the cost is for a turbo kit for a supra which has 1/10 of potential customers that the N54 has. The prices will come down in time. If you want a ST now you will have to pay the higher price.

Thank you, for validating what I was saying. I'm coming to learn of the past fueling problems,and this is where I was falling off. Because I'm used to just ordering a FASS system, or Airdog and moving on to bigger fuel lines. The differences in fitment are so considerable. But it's great to hear positive things are coming together behind the scenes! I love watching the companies duel for power and torque. It only benefits us.

[Dave W.]

The BMW tax is a myth. If there was sooo much profit in each product, don't you think there would be dozens of companies jumping in to rake in the bucks?

The FSR link is a little misleading. Take a look at the drop down menu options, there are several parts missing from the base price. To get a full turn-key kit from them adds considerable cost. In comparison, look at the Motive kit, it's being celebrated for including absolutely everything but it's also the most expensive kit in the BMW market.


FYI the FFtec bottom mount manifold fits on n54 335, 135, both AWD and RWD, and the Z4. I think the only versions it hasn't been tested on is the RHD models and the N54 535. Even then I'd be surprised if it didn't fit RHD with just a custom downpipe.

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by Dave W.

The BMW tax is a myth.

Why does 8k get me a twin turbo kit with two tubular manifolds, intercooler, all piping and couplers, two turbos, two downpipes, a tune, etc. but on this platform it only gets me a single cnc'd manifold and a turbo?

[Allen@MOTIV]

Originally Posted by Torgus

Why does 8k get me a twin turbo kit with two tubular manifolds, intercooler, all piping and couplers, two turbos, two downpipes, a tune, etc. but on this platform it only gets me a single cnc'd manifold and a turbo?

Our kit cones with way more than a manifold and turbo. Every single thing needed for install is included. The kits you are referring to are Chinese manufactured kits using hit or miss fitment and sometimes even utilize components without any brand of manufacturer anywhere to be found. An accurate comparison would be Heffner or APR or AMS' Alpha setups not a journal bearing turbo, cast iron manifold of questionable quality.


There are plenty of guys running DIY turbo setups and we love seeing those(we've tuned several) and in no way are we trying to stop people from doing that. Our goal is to offer a solution that is the absolute best that we can and we are doing just that.

[idratherbesurfing]

Originally Posted by Torgus

We do need a cast manifold, even if you needed 4 versions for the various models it would sell fine given the large amount of N54s sold. Especially as they come down in price and anyone can easily afford one, with the bullet proof motor it currently has it should be the best platform imo. Better than an STI or Evo imo. But i'm partial.


We need kits like this for sale:
http://fsrmotorsports.com/index.php?...mart&Itemid=87

But yeah a cast manifold would be the balls. Until then I am perfectly fine with the steeds Speed manifold he is creating for us:

Super pumped for that manifold so I can build my own kit

[HouseN54]

I'm pretty happy with the quality of my fftec top mount kit.

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by Allen@MOTIV

Our kit cones with way more than a manifold and turbo. Every single thing needed for install is included. The kits you are referring to are Chinese manufactured kits using hit or miss fitment and sometimes even utilize components without any brand of manufacturer anywhere to be found. An accurate comparison would be Heffner or APR or AMS' Alpha setups not a journal bearing turbo, cast iron manifold of questionable quality.

Everything needed? You include an intercooler and all hot and cold side piping? Don't even start with we didn't rip off the Steed Speed manifold. You guys were literally gushing over it 5+ years ago and forum posts prove it. You contacted Lee at Steed Speed and when he said he wouldn't make it for you, you made your own. Call Lee he will say the same thing. Glad he is now going to make the mani and sell it like he does other manis aka under 1k. He also promised it would out flow yours. VTT even called & asked him to raise the price or so I have been told.



Why do you refuse to sell your manifold alone again?



The kits I was talking about are Chinese? Greddy and HKS are of questionable quality?
http://www.hellionpowersystems.com/i...bo-systems/209 Apparently American made. 8k two turbos and everything included to take a non FI motor and make it FI. turbos, IC, downpipes, fittings, tune, etc. A stock internal GT Coyote with Hellion Eliminator twin turbo kit just went 9.12 @ 150 in the 1/4 mile. That is almost an 8 second car.

HKS twin turbo kit: http://www.suprastore.com/hksgt28twink.html

Greddy TT kits: http://www.frsport.com/Tuner-Turbo-K...kdkaAnl48P8HAQ

All of those are much more complicated and have more components than your kit. The list literally goes on and on.


This is what 8k gets you on most platforms:






You are saying your kit is on par with an AMS Alpha turbo kit? Really?
http://www.amsperformance.com/builds...lpha-omega-gtr

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...o+kit&tbm=shop

How do you consider your kit on par with an AMS Alpha kit? Just curious.




APS? The company that has over priced kits and has been caught lying multiple times and has gone down hill? Former employees trash them openly.

http://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-ind...g-out-aps.html

http://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comment...rups_and_lies/

http://audirevolution.net/forum/index.php?topic=2924.0

"As the owner of APS, Peter has done in the USA what he has successfully completed in Australia. That is to rape his customers and leave them bleeding to death."

Screw APS. If you want to be associated with them or compare yourself to them so be it. Hell look at what they charge for a tune a simple bolt on kit for an audi. Insane prices.

Edit: just to be clear I'm not saying your kit doesn't perform or is not of high quality. It's just pricey for a log manifold turbo kit, especially when you consider what you can get for 8k+ on other platforms. To me that is BMW tax.

[stanlalee]

Originally Posted by boost junkie

Twins are still a great option as they are making over 600whp now on stock frames and still spool very fast.

I don't know why people seem to think running stock frame turbo's to high hp levels is a good thing High boost at low rpm is not the best thing for longevity as high load/low rpm is hard on engines (not to mention power delivery, hell even stock turbos benefit from boost limiting in 1rst and 2nd gear). On top of that stock frames running lets say 525whp is going to be heating up the charge air MUCH higher than a 525whp 5862 which is barely working to make that kind of power. When your talking 500whp and up a large single turbo is all kinds of safer and easier on the engine no question. This is why you never put a small turbo on a factory naturally aspirated car. You want boost to come on late and the turbo to run cool. That's ALWAYS safer.

[HouseN54]

Originally Posted by Torgus

Everything needed? You include an intercooler and all hot and cold side piping? Don't even start with we didn't rip off the Steed Speed manifold. You guys were literally gushing over it 5+ years ago and forum posts prove it. You contacted Lee at Steed Speed and when he said he wouldn't make it for you, you made your own. Call Lee he will say the same thing. Glad he is now going to make the mani and sell it like he does other manis aka under 1k. He also promised it would out flow yours. VTT even called & asked him to raise the price or so I have been told.



Why do you refuse to sell your manifold alone again?



The kits I was talking about are Chinese? Greddy and HKS are of questionable quality?
http://www.hellionpowersystems.com/i...bo-systems/209 Apparently American made. 8k two turbos and everything included to take a non FI motor and make it FI. turbos, IC, downpipes, fittings, tune, etc. A stock internal GT Coyote with Hellion Eliminator twin turbo kit just went 9.12 @ 150 in the 1/4 mile. That is almost an 8 second car.

HKS twin turbo kit: http://www.suprastore.com/hksgt28twink.html

Greddy TT kits: http://www.frsport.com/Tuner-Turbo-K...kdkaAnl48P8HAQ

All of those are much more complicated and have more components than your kit. The list literally goes on and on.


This is what 8k gets you on most platforms:






You are saying your kit is on par with an AMS Alpha turbo kit? Really?
http://www.amsperformance.com/builds...lpha-omega-gtr

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...o+kit&tbm=shop

How do you consider your kit on par with an AMS Alpha kit? Just curious.




APS? The company that has over priced kits and has been caught lying multiple times and has gone down hill? Former employees trash them openly.

http://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-ind...g-out-aps.html

http://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comment...rups_and_lies/

http://audirevolution.net/forum/index.php?topic=2924.0

"As the owner of APS, Peter has done in the USA what he has successfully completed in Australia. That is to rape his customers and leave them bleeding to death."

Screw APS. If you want to be associated with them or compare yourself to them so be it. Hell look at what they charge for a tune a simple bolt on kit for an audi. Insane prices.

Edit: just to be clear I'm not saying your kit doesn't perform or is not of high quality. It's just pricey for a log manifold turbo kit, especially when you consider what you can get for 8k+ on other platforms. To me that is BMW tax.

I really like this guy already.

[JDuke335i]

Originally Posted by 4doorbmwpower

I have all "problems" worked out with the car. No spooling issues I will be able to turn up around 800hp and have IMMEDIATE boost just like stock. When done right twins are still the way to go, even upgraded. As for fueling, that is also figured out. I will open my build thread to everyone here soon! just subscribe to see the new fastest N54.

+1. Can't wait to read about your build

[idratherbesurfing]

Originally Posted by Torgus

Edit: just to be clear I'm not saying your kit doesn't perform or is not of high quality. It's just pricey for a log manifold turbo kit, especially when you consider what you can get for 8k+ on other platforms. To me that is BMW tax.

I agree with you on that, no one can take away that the motiv kit performs awesome and looks like they put time and effort into and didnt weld it with their eyes closed.. but the price is way too steep for me. i cant justify buying it for myself when i know i can have my shop make me a complete kit for less and thats what im doing. Nothing negative to Motiv from me just my personal opinion, there will be plenty of people out there that have the money to buy that kit and will. I still look foward to see what other parts they come out with

[fastgti69]

System Options

Ball Bearing Upgrade
$1,200
64mm Precision CEA Billet turbos (Ball Bearing Only)
$2,100
67mm CEA Billet wheel turbos $1,050
Turbosmart E boost 2 boost controller $557.99
Turbosmart E boost Street boost controller
$314.99
AEM wide band O2 kit $220
Turbo heat blanket $90 ea.
Deatschwerks 95lb Fuel Injector Upgrade $400


Another 4k in add ons to make it 2010 technology worthy LOL

[Dave W.]

I think Torgus just convinced me to get a mustang!

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by fastgti69

System Options

Ball Bearing Upgrade
$1,200
64mm Precision CEA Billet turbos (Ball Bearing Only)
$2,100
67mm CEA Billet wheel turbos $1,050
Turbosmart E boost 2 boost controller $557.99
Turbosmart E boost Street boost controller
$314.99
AEM wide band O2 kit $220
Turbo heat blanket $90 ea.
Deatschwerks 95lb Fuel Injector Upgrade $400


Another 4k in add ons to make it 2010 technology worthy LOL

Dude you sell a turbo kit for this platform and know about turbos. You and I both know that journal bearing turbos are just fine and the power output doesn't change. Wow it spools 100-200rpms sooner yay. Yes they give options for upgrades, you don't need them for the kit to perform. On a 5 liter V8 TT I doubt you could even tell the difference between BB vs. Journal from the seat. The added cost does not give you the added benefit. BB upgrades are not the best bang for your buck upgrade on ANY platform.

Your post was to make the hellion kit look like it needs to cost $4,000 more to be relevant or up to date & to somehow discredit my post is a joke. I really expected more from you.

I do like the turbo kit you sell. Why aren't you a vendor on here?

[fmonteiro444]

Originally Posted by idratherbesurfing

I agree with you on that, no one can take away that the motiv kit performs awesome and looks like they put time and effort into and didnt weld it with their eyes closed.. but the price is way too steep for me. i cant justify buying it for myself when i know i can have my shop make me a complete kit for less and thats what im doing. Nothing negative to Motiv from me just my personal opinion, there will be plenty of people out there that have the money to buy that kit and will. I still look foward to see what other parts they come out with

Exactly. Beautiful kit, but come on $8k? Who in their right mind wants to invest that kind of money solely for a turbo kit on a five year old car? You still need engine management, FMIC and piping, and a fuel upgrade. I would think that the people that CAN actually afford dropping that kind of coin have already moved on to a newer car.

Moving on, I can't stand the fact that we are so limited in options for the N54. You would think that by now there would be a plethora of both stock frame and single kits available.