[TGNY 335]

Great build man. I'm all for taking the path less traveled.

[DigiDon]

Thank You guys for all the compliments.

Yes I agree I need to get to the Dyno before this thing grenades, so I can at least have a log of the actual output.

Sorry guys, I do not have any plans on marketing a kit. The mechanical part of the kit is the easy part, the tuning part not so much. For this to be a marketable daily driver kit would take a lot of tuning R&D and would need multiple test mules in different areas of the country in order to account for altitude and weather differences which I don't have that much time and money to invest. If there is another company willing to do the tuning end of it I could do the mechanical bits no problem. I did have a thought about the software from the ESS supercharger kit being able to work up to about 7psi, I believe this would be possible if anyone knows how to get a hold of that flash I could try it out on my car.

For what I have in this kit, I would think it would be in the $9-10k range, which would make the ESS supercharger a much more cost effective option. The ESS kit is pretty basic, they do not have a front mount intercooler and intercooler piping, Blow off valve, bov controller, they don't need aftermarket catalytic converters, they don't need an exhaust manifold or downpipe, they do not need to relocate the expansion tank, they do not need to relocate the p/s tank, no injectors, no fuel pump, and probably more I can't remember.

I did finally update my fuel pump. I added a Walbro GSL392 pump in line with the stock pump.



I found all the parts to do this bolt in upgrade, but can be purchased as a kit from Fuel-It.biz http://www.fuel-it.biz/e-series-fuel-system-upgrades/
which are N54 low pressure fuel pump upgrade options, but like I said previously our N52 pumps are identical to N54 low pressure pumps so works perfectly.

I am now running 13psi of boost and feels amazing, but have some more tuning to do and I also need to relocate my boost control solenoid and need to retune my boost controller as I had a couple of boost spikes to 18.9psi according to the peak hold replay which is pretty crazy. I think this engine might be able to handle over 20psi of boost pressure.

should i put this as an update in the original post?

[CobraMarty]

Your video says 2007 N52K 328i.

I have a 2007 N52N 328xi, is there any difference in the engine code, N vs K?
Or is the K a typo on your video?

[E91 M Sport]

Originally Posted by DigiDon

should i put this as an update in the original post?

I'm sure they'll find it if they're looking for it

If you aren't planning to market a kit what would help someone like myself is an inventory of sorts w/part numbers and perhaps some wiring diagrams. Think of it as a DIY for enthusiasts.

You mentioned your biggest feat was the tuning — were there any mechanical bits that you had to change, like MAP sensor location for example, to get it to tune right? Or was the big challenge just to get it to run with a sudden surge or air getting crammed into it?

[DigiDon]

Originally Posted by CobraMarty

Your video says 2007 N52K 328i.

I have a 2007 N52N 328xi, is there any difference in the engine code, N vs K?
Or is the K a typo on your video?

I believe it should be the same engine. The K is not a typo. I worked for BMW as a Level 1 tech for over 10 years and we distinguished between old and new N52's using the K. So older magnesium valve cover N52's (325 330) are just N52, while the newer plastic valve cover N52's (328) are N52K. There are other letter designations which referred to I believe power output and configuration which I believe the N52N you are talking about refers to, don't quote me on that though.. Been a long while since BMW school..

[DigiDon]

Originally Posted by E91 M Sport

I'm sure they'll find it if they're looking for it

If you aren't planning to market a kit what would help someone like myself is an inventory of sorts w/part numbers and perhaps some wiring diagrams. Think of it as a DIY for enthusiasts.

You mentioned your biggest feat was the tuning — were there any mechanical bits that you had to change, like MAP sensor location for example, to get it to tune right? Or was the big challenge just to get it to run with a sudden surge or air getting crammed into it?

I could possibly put something like that together. Wiring diagrams may be hard. I would have to dig up all the diagrams again and see what I hooked to what, Its a sea of wires in my DME box and I had to trial and error some wires and some didn't work as planned.

Ideally the MAF would be located before the turbo "pull through" but I located it in the same location on the charge pipe before the throttle body "blow through" which probably caused some of my initial tuning obstacles and also dealing with the BMW OEM DME adaptations trying to undo all the tuning changes I made using the AEM piggy back. The AEM has an O2 sensor skew function but could not get it hooked up properly, I believe I need a resistor of some sort but never tried to figure it out. I think the best way to deal with everything would be a DME flash to fix those issues and then use the AEM for additional fueling using the onboard MAP sensor.

[Cdutch513]

Someone tag ESS so they can get the injectors he used for the supercharger kit!

[David0ff]

One more idea regarding injectors.
This may help develop a solution for those who crave boost in their N52.
This is based on my experience tuning rx7s,

The Twin turbo FD3S model has primary and secondary injectors.

The primary injectors ( 2 x 550cc) operate exclusively from idle to about ~3500-3800 rpm under light acceleration/low boost conditions, then under heavy acceleration and higher boost all the way to 8500 rpm you also get the secondaries (2x850cc) spraying.

For illustration purpose, the primary injectors are inserted in the block, and the secondaries are in the runners a bit higher.



When tuning for higher boost most people opt for larger secondaries ( 2x 1600cc) and leave the primaries alone in order to maintain proper idle and low speed/ off boost drivability.

We can replicate that idea here with the N52.

I know that for the Vavetronic system to properly operate and maintain idle we require somewhat fancy injectors with a special spray pattern.

Now when we introduce boost we find that these are no longer up to the task for fueling the beast past 7-8 psi.

Instead of trying to fuck with the primary injectors, why dont we let them be and instead add a secondary fuel rail with easily available properly sized injectors tapped into the intake manifold close to the intake port.

We can then piggyback these to come online as needed to supplement the fuel needs under boost.

I am sure the stock injectors on the N52 can fuel up to 3500 rpm even under high boost on their own, and then we just find a way to get the secondaries to spray under WOT and after 4000 rpm or so.

No doubt the supercharger developers can incorporate secondary injection control into their DME Flash and be able to offer kits that can get to 1bar boost, intercoled for the N52.
Now regarding the N52 limitations, that is a different story.

Just a thought.

[DigiDon]

Originally Posted by David0ff

One more idea regarding injectors.
This may help develop a solution for those who crave boost in their N52.
This is based on my experience tuning rx7s,

The Twin turbo FD3S model has primary and secondary injectors.

The primary injectors ( 2 x 550cc) operate exclusively from idle to about ~3500-3800 rpm under light acceleration/low boost conditions, then under heavy acceleration and higher boost all the way to 8500 rpm you also get the secondaries (2x850cc) spraying.

For illustration purpose, the primary injectors are inserted in the block, and the secondaries are in the runners a bit higher.



When tuning for higher boost most people opt for larger secondaries ( 2x 1600cc) and leave the primaries alone in order to maintain proper idle and low speed/ off boost drivability.

We can replicate that idea here with the N52.

I know that for the Vavetronic system to properly operate and maintain idle we require somewhat fancy injectors with a special spray pattern.

Now when we introduce boost we find that these are no longer up to the task for fueling the beast past 7-8 psi.

Instead of trying to fuck with the primary injectors, why dont we let them be and instead add a secondary fuel rail with easily available properly sized injectors tapped into the intake manifold close to the intake port.

We can then piggyback these to come online as needed to supplement the fuel needs under boost.

I am sure the stock injectors on the N52 can fuel up to 3500 rpm even under high boost on their own, and then we just find a way to get the secondaries to spray under WOT and after 4000 rpm or so.

No doubt the supercharger developers can incorporate secondary injection control into their DME Flash and be able to offer kits that can get to 1bar boost, intercoled for the N52.
Now regarding the N52 limitations, that is a different story.

Just a thought.

Great idea! They have a throtle body injection kit already for the N55 guys http://www.fuel-it.biz/n55-f-series-tbi-options/
I think it will work for the N52 there is also a port injection kit that would definitly bolt on, that the N54 guys are using.
http://www.fuel-it.biz/e-series-port-injection-options/
The N54 manifold bolts to our engine so the kit would have to work as it bolts in between the head and the intake manifold and uses a split second ECU to control them....

[David0ff]

Originally Posted by DigiDon

Great idea! They have a throtle body injection kit already for the N55 guys http://www.fuel-it.biz/n55-f-series-tbi-options/
I think it will work for the N52 there is also a port injection kit that would definitly bolt on, that the N54 guys are using.
http://www.fuel-it.biz/e-series-port-injection-options/
The N54 manifold bolts to our engine so the kit would have to work as it bolts in between the head and the intake manifold and uses a split second ECU to control them....

Exaclty!

That is an easy way to do it, most pieces already exist and bolt on to our engines.

Then we just need a to see if that split ecu can be sufficient or we need another piggyback to control fuel/timing vs boost or ideally a DME flash that can control all them pieces.

[E91 M Sport]

Originally Posted by DigiDon

I could possibly put something like that together. Wiring diagrams may be hard. I would have to dig up all the diagrams again and see what I hooked to what, Its a sea of wires in my DME box and I had to trial and error some wires and some didn't work as planned.

I could only imagine.

Originally Posted by DigiDon

Ideally the MAF would be located before the turbo "pull through" but I located it in the same location on the charge pipe before the throttle body "blow through" which probably caused some of my initial tuning obstacles and also dealing with the BMW OEM DME adaptations trying to undo all the tuning changes I made using the AEM piggy back. The AEM has an O2 sensor skew function but could not get it hooked up properly, I believe I need a resistor of some sort but never tried to figure it out. I think the best way to deal with everything would be a DME flash to fix those issues and then use the AEM for additional fueling using the onboard MAP sensor.

Yea see this is the type of info that would be great to add to the mix.

[David0ff]

Originally Posted by DigiDon

I could possibly put something like that together. Wiring diagrams may be hard. I would have to dig up all the diagrams again and see what I hooked to what, Its a sea of wires in my DME box and I had to trial and error some wires and some didn't work as planned.

Ideally the MAF would be located before the turbo "pull through" but I located it in the same location on the charge pipe before the throttle body "blow through" which probably caused some of my initial tuning obstacles and also dealing with the BMW OEM DME adaptations trying to undo all the tuning changes I made using the AEM piggy back. The AEM has an O2 sensor skew function but could not get it hooked up properly, I believe I need a resistor of some sort but never tried to figure it out. I think the best way to deal with everything would be a DME flash to fix those issues and then use the AEM for additional fueling using the onboard MAP sensor.

Ont thing with the maf pre turbo, we need a way to get IAT at the throttle body or manifold.

[David0ff]

Originally Posted by Bob@BPC

Thats a waste of money on the N52, if you know what you are doing in the DME, the stock software and hardware will scale injectors up to 100lbs+ and you can install a slot style MAF from an 05+ mustang or ford. Also you can install a dual or triple pump setup if you want to make crazy power. The only reason you would need this on the N54 is because there is no aftermarket fuel injectors or high volume pumps.

Also, the n52 has a 5bar fuel system, you can run a set of 42lb injectors up to around 400 - 450rwhp, we've done this on the S54

How compatible are aftermarket injectors with the Valvetronic stystem?
I have no personal experience in the matter but I keep hearing and reading that they can be problematic in idle or part throttle scenarios.

[David0ff]

Ok great, sounds promissing,

That would be the ideal solution,
Have whatever size injectors in the stock position and a DME with a tune that can deal with the whole thing.

[TBN54]

...Can you be my father?

[Rival]

Im guessing you fabbed the headers...??

[W37V]

Originally Posted by Rival

Im guessing you fabbed the headers...??

See post #9

[DigiDon]

Originally Posted by David0ff

How compatible are aftermarket injectors with the Valvetronic stystem?
I have no personal experience in the matter but I keep hearing and reading that they can be problematic in idle or part throttle scenarios.

What exactly is the issue with the aftermarket injectors with these motors? I mean what is the difference with OEM units? Is it an issue with the size difference or injector nozzle length?

[hassmaschine]

the thought is the injectors have a specific spray pattern to deal with the variable lift - so they work at the minimum .18mm lift as well as the maximum 9.7mm.

Whether that is true or not isn't really proven, although it is true that injectors are typically made with specific spray patterns for a given engine to match the port geometry.

[DigiDon]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

the thought is the injectors have a specific spray pattern to deal with the variable lift - so they work at the minimum .18mm lift as well as the maximum 9.7mm.

Whether that is true or not isn't really proven, although it is true that injectors are typically made with specific spray patterns for a given engine to match the port geometry.

Ah ok, so have they tried any other injectors and had problems with them?


On another note. My transmissions second gear has been broken for a couple months now and getting worse, so I ordered and received my N54 tranny. Will be Attempting to fit this in the 328 by this weekend. I am going to try and fit it with the N52 Flywheel and clutch setup I currently have. I believe I have to change the spline on the clutch disc, and make some sort of shaft to go in between both pilot bearings. Other than that should other wise theoretically bolt up. wish me luck!

[TGNY 335]

Does anyone have the specific part number part number for the Stock N52 injectors or any pictures of them by themselves? I did a quick search and all the images that come up look like they are nothing special. Nothing more than a long nozzle EV1 injector.

If I can get the part number off the injector itself I could easily find you a higher flowing replacement that you'll be able to control with your AEM unit. There is no need for extra port injectors on this car. Isn't this car already port injected?

If the injector is what I think it is. A good 50lb/hr or so EV14 injector will suffice. And be tunable with the AEM unit youre running.

Just brain storming here.

[TGNY 335]

Just went back and read the first post again. 80lb injectors seem waayyyyy too large for what you are doing.

Is your ECU flash tunable or are you using the FIC solely for engine control?

Just friendly talk and advice here. I recommend running the MAF blow-through, and making sure it's on a good straight pipe with about 4inches. Of straight pipe pre maf and post maf.

Clamp the stock MAF voltage and stock MAP voltage (if equipped) to just below the saturation level of the sensors. Then do what you been doing and let the FIC control boost fuel beyond the clamp point.

Blow through setup is more accurate and better to tune for pproper boosted air temps and air mass. Added benefit is if you blow a couple off pre-maf. You can still drive the car to a place that's safe to fix it.

Again just brain storming here. I do builds like this all the time boosting NA cars.