[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by Bubbles

From my trip to the dealership I was surprised to discover that I could lease an M6 for less than the M3!

I think it is about $1200 month for the M3 on a 3yr lease?

[remydlc]

First year car is always expensive. Now you see 335s in a 3yr lease for about 500-550, while i am paying way over 700 for mine. By the time my lease is up in 2 years, there should be M3s waiting to be taken out of the lot, hopefully one can get away with a less than $1000 3yr lease. Anyway, is not that you can order one and get it in less than a year.

[stressdoc]

A 335 with a tuned engine (piggy or flash), tuned suspension (Hotchkis sways & Bilstein PSS10s), wheels & tires, weight loss, and LSD should hang with a E9x M3 under most conditions. Add on some of the M-sport aesthetics to feel good sitting in the beast.

The above mods are going to end up costing me about 7k, resulting in a total price of about 43k for my 335. But I won't recoup much of the investment in mods.

If you could buy an M3 with a ED discount for 1k over invoice (low 50s), that would be the clear way to go for performance-first buyers that don't worry about fuel consumption or insurance costs. But at >60k, it's hard for someone like me to justify that cost.

[CarveOut]

Originally Posted by normtrum

guys I know the m3 vs modded 335 issue has been discussed a ton....but here's my play on it....with performance mods alone, and in a straight line, it would be very close, maybe a drivers race. If you have to make any turns, say goodbye to the m3 as he pulls away. Stock M's just have too much going for them when it comes to suspension.

I love em both. Hell I own a 335 with V2 and intake, and I'm about to place my order for a M3...both e90's.

The M3 suspension is certainly better. The question is what is the effect on curvy roads in real?

Sport Auto magazine has tested both cars on Nuerburgring Nordschleife. This track is ~13 miles long and has lots of turns, uphill, downhill, so, for a good track time you need both, power and suspension.

The 335i (bone stock) was only 21 seconds behind the M3 e92 and only 4 seconds behind the M3 e46. Considering that the M3 e92 has a 114hp power advantage over the 335i I call that nothing.

Here's a comparison:
e92 M3: 8.05 min.
e46 M3: 8.22 min.
Audi S5: 8.24 min.
Cayman S: 8:25 min.
e92 335i: 8.26 min.

(same driver btw)

[sflgator]

Originally Posted by Bubbles

From my trip to the dealership I was surprised to discover that I could lease an M6 for less than the M3!

That's just insane!!! I wonder if most "stealerships" are marking up the E90/92 M3 like we've heard from other ppl. I'm sure we'll see the prices come back down to earth in 2009.

[E90Boy]

I just test drive the e92 M3, the car is awesome! The feel of it is different than the e92 335i. For me, if bmw added better brakes, the new double clutch tranny, and maybe sqeeze 30+lbtq that would be perfect. The car is wonderful, but anything below 4k rpm is . For someone who doesn't have money to throw away justifying another 12k+ for the m3 is stupid. With the C63's pricing and the lexus (reliability reasons) my dealership still have 4 m3s in stock. I've been to other dealerships and everyone have the m3 in stock.

[remydlc]

A friend of mine bought a Passat for his fioncee. The salesman had a brand new 550i hooked up with navi, sports pkg, and whatnot. He asked my friend to guess how much he got it from, my friend did not guess. Well he told him he did his research and offered them $1,000 over of what the dealer paid for, his final price was $39,000 dollars . Now that is a huge discount. Dealers rip you off.

So, when i get my next car, i will do just the same, hope it works .

[sflgator]

Originally Posted by remydlc

A friend of mine bought a Passat for his fioncee. The salesman had a brand new 550i hooked up with navi, sports pkg, and whatnot. He asked my friend to guess how much he got it from, my friend did not guess. Well he told him he did his research and offered them $1,000 over of what the dealer paid for, his final price was $39,000 dollars . Now that is a huge discount. Dealers rip you off.

So, when i get my next car, i will do just the same, hope it works .

Sorry, but that's b.s. All of us can find out dealer invoices, lease MF markups, and such; what we don't know are factory-to-dealer incentives and holdbacks, which, when present are the dealer's "hidden" profits. However, that salesman either didn't get a "brand new," semi-loaded BMW 550 for $39k or it was used...period. That's b.s.; a well-equipped 550's MSRP is ~ $62k+, and the typical BMW factory-to-dealer markup (dealer invoice) is ~ 8-10%, meaning the dealer invoice is ~ $55k+...$39k???? No way, sorry.

[remydlc]

Originally Posted by sflgator

Sorry, but that's b.s. All of us can find out dealer invoices, lease MF markups, and such; what we don't know are factory-to-dealer incentives and holdbacks, which, when present are the dealer's "hidden" profits. However, that salesman either didn't get a "brand new," semi-loaded BMW 550 for $39k or it was used...period. That's b.s.; a well-equipped 550's MSRP is ~ $62k+, and the typical BMW factory-to-dealer markup (dealer invoice) is ~ 8-10%, meaning the dealer invoice is ~ $55k+...$39k???? No way, sorry.

Could be the VW salesman bs, maybe was an used car. My friend wont lie to me, i am not sure why the sales guy would say he got a 55+k car for 39k and not for more, where most of the people pretend to be loaded of money

[Coldintake]

Originally Posted by stressdoc

A 335 with a tuned engine (piggy or flash), tuned suspension (Hotchkis sways & Bilstein PSS10s), wheels & tires, weight loss, and LSD should hang with a E9x M3 under most conditions. Add on some of the M-sport aesthetics to feel good sitting in the beast.

The above mods are going to end up costing me about 7k, resulting in a total price of about 43k for my 335. But I won't recoup much of the investment in mods.

If you could buy an M3 with a ED discount for 1k over invoice (low 50s), that would be the clear way to go for performance-first buyers that don't worry about fuel consumption or insurance costs. But at >60k, it's hard for someone like me to justify that cost.

AFAIK.. no ED discount on m cars.

[Bubbles]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

I think it is about $1200 month for the M3 on a 3yr lease?

About that depending on money put down.

Originally Posted by stressdoc

The above mods are going to end up costing me about 7k, resulting in a total price of about 43k for my 335.

You paid $36k for your 335i?

Originally Posted by CarveOut

The 335i (bone stock) was only 21 seconds behind the M3 e92 and only 4 seconds behind the M3 e46. )

Are you serious? 21 seconds is an entirety on the track.

Originally Posted by sflgator

That's just insane!!! I wonder if most "stealerships" are marking up the E90/92 M3 like we've heard from other ppl. I'm sure we'll see the prices come back down to earth in 2009.

With the number of Trust Fund babies around here, good luck procuring an M3 for anything less than MSRP.

[Vince@ V K Motorwerks]

Sorry but a GTR is not going to cost you 70K its going to cost you more around 80-90k without dealer mark ups. right now people are paying over 100k for the car because of the wait. The M3 is a beast and for me personally it sets a benchmark. I am currently configuring my car for straitline performance. Next will be handles I plan on getting better wheels, a KMS LSD, Sway bars, and KW2's. Im very curious to see how the 335i with those mods (still being a lot cheaper) will do against it. As far as "feel" of the car goes. My car makes me feel good, but not as good as ripping the smile off of someones face when I pull past them in my "lesser" 335i. Which I have done to many e46 m3 owners, until of late where I think the word had gotten around and now dont even try.

[herbz]

the high revving, 8k RPM redline beast M3 will definetely take the 335i, even with a modded suspension, on the track. in a straight line, the 335i with proper mods will be able to take it. however, to make the 335i compete with the m3 on the track, you're gonna be paying close to the value of an m3 anyways. might as well get the m3 and have the warranty if you're looking for track performance.

the 335i is still a better daily driver IMO, with its massive amounts of torque which require little downshifting. but the m3 is king on the track.

[silvrevo]

My take on this,, and I cant believe noone else has thought of it yet.

Here is what you need to do to the 335i to make it faster, make the limiting part of the car longer,, yes longer. The gas pedal!!!!!!

Take out your gas pedal, and cut a notch in the footwell allowing the gas pedal to travel a good 3 inches more.

Simple as that,,, the limiting factor in the 335i is the short travel of the gas pedal.

Cheap free mod that will yeild a good 150 hp.

[Vince@ V K Motorwerks]

Originally Posted by silvrevo

My take on this,, and I cant believe noone else has thought of it yet.

Here is what you need to do to the 335i to make it faster, make the limiting part of the car longer,, yes longer. The gas pedal!!!!!!

Take out your gas pedal, and cut a notch in the footwell allowing the gas pedal to travel a good 3 inches more.

Simple as that,,, the limiting factor in the 335i is the short travel of the gas pedal.

Cheap free mod that will yeild a good 150 hp.

Bro you should totally market this idea, before you know it you'll be driving a lambo like shiv!

[orionredwing]

Wow! That is such a great mod. Please post a DIY asap! I'm gonna pass on all the piggy-backs now cuz this will give me the best bang for buck. I assume when your gas pedal travels farther, it pumps more gas? That's what generates all that extra HP, right? Can't wait to see it released!

[/stupid off] hehe, thanks for the good laugh. love it.

Originally Posted by silvrevo

My take on this,, and I cant believe noone else has thought of it yet.

Here is what you need to do to the 335i to make it faster, make the limiting part of the car longer,, yes longer. The gas pedal!!!!!!

Take out your gas pedal, and cut a notch in the footwell allowing the gas pedal to travel a good 3 inches more.

Simple as that,,, the limiting factor in the 335i is the short travel of the gas pedal.

Cheap free mod that will yeild a good 150 hp.

[Robert]

Originally Posted by Bubbles

From my trip to the dealership I was surprised to discover that I could lease an M6 for less than the M3!

That is because no one wants a M6, for reasons I am not going into out of respect for M6 owners here. Someone on M3post was able to buy a M6 for a fully loaded M3.

[TheAcAvenger]

You know, I was out autocrossing this past week and something really important dawned on me...

A lot of people will buy an M3 that will never reach its full potential. A 335i with a driver that's been to ONE performance driving program will beat an M3 with a driver that hasn't been to one nearly every single time. I guarantee you this.

[normtrum]

Originally Posted by MarkNg335i

Don't be sarcastic b/c he meant it dude.

Are you freaking serious? You think he meant it when he said by drilling a hole in your floorboard you can push the gas pedal down further to get 150 extra hp???? Give me a break.

[Vince@ V K Motorwerks]

Originally Posted by normtrum

Are you freaking serious? You think he meant it when he said by drilling a hole in your floorboard you can push the gas pedal down further to get 150 extra hp???? Give me a break.

Since you guys are actually debating this why dont one of you try it and report back!

[normtrum]

Originally Posted by Chitown335i

Since you guys are actually debating this why dont one of you try it and report back!

Ha ha...I will take a pass on that. I could take the whole floor out for the Fred Flinstone effect however.

[arefog]

I just drove a new M3 yesterday. I've owned an E36 M3 and a couple of E46 M3s (both stick and SMG) and I gotta tell ya - the overall package is VERY impressive. Great suspension, marvelous steering, light clutch, good looks.....BUT.......under 6,000 rpm forget it - my 335 is significantly faster and more responsive. Please note I live in Colorado at 5,300' which puts the normally aspirated M3 at a disadvantage, but even so it was a bit of a letdown. I didn't get into the fat part of the powerband because it had so few miles on it, and I don't dispute for a minute that in a balls-to-the-wall drag race it will be most impressive, but still................the old adage that people buy horsepower but drive torque really hits home in a M3/335 comparison. For me, thrashing a lighter 2 seater can be a blast, but in a 3,700 pound four seater I prefer the broad, responsive torque of a 335, or perhaps a C63. Just an observation, not a right/wrong. I can tell you that the sales guys at the dealership are wondering how much demand there will be for the M3 when customers drive one back to back with a 335 - again, at 5,300'. Bottom line: I want an M3 with a tweaked 335 motor!

Dick Fogg