[pits200]

Originally Posted by ferocity02

x2!

However 1k miles isn't proof enough for me. I'd be looking for 10k+ miles on each at least or over 100k cumulative. That's a lot of money to gamble without any solid real-life results.

I'd agree but it would take forever to wait for that especially since highly tuned cars aren't typically driven that much.

[klipse]

For anyone who has doubt the TCU was calibrated differently than stock, here is a screen from the most recent video:

[klipse]

Originally Posted by ferocity02

x2!

However 1k miles isn't proof enough for me. I'd be looking for 10k+ miles on each at least or over 100k cumulative. That's a lot of money to gamble without any solid real-life results.

No no... I think what you mean is its too much for YOU to spend(emphasis on your opinion). Go look around in other markets. The M3/M4/M5 markets, they have people waiving money around waiting for new parts without having seen a single sight or sound of them. Because they can. Other people need to see a thousand passes down the drag strip to be convinced.

If it breaks your bank, then maybe you shouldn't buy the upgrade period. There is always the mortgage and other stuff to pay off afterall. For me? This is all just one fun bad habbit

[TrollToll]

Originally Posted by klipse

No no... I think what you mean is its too much for YOU to spend. Go look around in other markets. The M3/M4/M5 markets, they have people waiving money around waiting for new parts without having seen a single sight or sound of them. Because they can. Other people need to see a thousand passes down the drag strip to be convinced.

If it breaks your bank, then maybe you shouldn't buy the upgrade period. There is always the mortgage and other stuff to pay off afterall. For me? This is all just one fun bad habbit

Is English your second language?

[RSTECH]

Originally Posted by klipse

For anyone who has doubt the TCU was calibrated differently than stock, here is a screen from the most recent video:

Nice where's the video posted?

[klipse]

Originally Posted by pits200

How can he expect 15 commitments when there hasnt even been very conclusive data. He said he isn't sharing his own findings as not to skew but until I see 5 cars running 700wtq with no problem over 1k miles, not sure it makes sense.

He isn't expecting that. There have been a few of us who've already made up our minds so we asked that a list be made. Now, I can see how you may have missed that part without being on that forum, so I understand where you're coming from. But nonetheless, there are actually more than that who've committed but aren't on the list, not to mention the betas in the wild, so there are certainly those who are on board early and I don't think there is anything wrong with that.

Some people may feel its not enough information, some do, and that is fine. But it still remains, the group buy wasn't planned until december. However a few of us are impatient and wanted to reserve a spot early, that is all.

EDIT: Also pits, I don't think what you want is unreasonable at all. In fact, if his beta's can get their other personal lives together, that might exactly be what you see.

[klipse]

Originally Posted by TrollToll

Is English your second language?

Its quite clear I'm addressing the fact he should emphasize that his own opinion of what 'solid real life results' are have nothing to do with the reality of what sufficient proof is for a potential buyer given the progressive nature of what is being developed. Some people may think that its not solid until the transmission has 200,000 miles on it. Doesn't mean that is the only definition of solid evidence. Race cars aren't going to get 10,000 miles put on them in a year, several passes down the track and some half mile runs and a little bit of time in use will give those who understand how transmissions work a good bearing on where the transmission is and how long it should hold.

[pits200]

You're right 5k for this kit if it does what it says is very reasonable but what you forget is that if it doesn't meet expectations. You're out the 5k but what about downtime, purchasing a different kit, etc...

I don't want to compare Jason with level 10 as they have a history of failure but buying a performance part before there being a track record is going to cost you a lot more than the upfront cost of the kit

[klipse]

Originally Posted by pits200

You're right 5k for this kit if it does what it says is very reasonable but what you forget is that if it doesn't meet expectations. You're out the 5k but what about downtime, purchasing a different kit, etc...

I don't want to compare Jason with level 10 as they have a history of failure but buying a performance part before there being a track record is going to cost you a lot more than the upfront cost of the kit

I think we've all been around the block enough times to know how there has been funny stuff being sold as an upgrade for quite a while. That risk is something I've already calculated and there is more information coming out as we speak. Also, don't look past the fact that I have yet to pay a single penny as this group buy develops. If some devastating news comes out, surely I wouldn't be wanting to toss my hat in the ring until there was a good explanation but frankly, its all been positives which match the descriptions given, so I am encouraged.

Now unlike some or most, I've spoken on the phone, email and gleaned various details through private messages and have gotten a feel for where things are and I am confident enough to put my name on that list as we see the beta results unfold. I think the only thing anyone is asking YOU or any other prospective buyer, is to simply watch. I think you'll be encouraged to join in, especially if you have a failing transmission or anticipate having one.

Originally Posted by pits200

You're out the 5k but what about downtime, purchasing a different kit, etc...

There is no "different kit"...it's either this or the junkyard.

At this point peeps would be happy with a shop they could trust to just do a refresh/rebuild in general.

[pits200]

Originally Posted by FCobra94

There is no "different kit"...it's either this or the junkyard.

At this point peeps would be happy with a shop they could trust to just do a refresh/rebuild in general.

Nizpro.. But when I said different kit, I wasn't specific enough, I guess I just meant going back to stock which will cost you a couple thousand more. Now you don't even have an upgrade and your invested between 5-10k.

[332ijunkie]

Originally Posted by klipse

For anyone who has doubt the TCU was calibrated differently than stock, here is a screen from the most recent video:

[IMG]

View post on imgur.com

[/IMG]

I can get my auto to shift there on factory cal, you just hold the shifter in +. I want a cal that you don't have to hold anything and can also smash limiter without it shifting...

This is 6AT car.

[klipse]

Originally Posted by pits200

Nizpro.. But when I said different kit, I wasn't specific enough, I guess I just meant going back to stock which will cost you a couple thousand more. Now you don't even have an upgrade and your invested between 5-10k.

I mean, lets be honest, do you actually believe its worse than a stock transmission?

[ferocity02]

Originally Posted by klipse

No no... I think what you mean is its too much for YOU to spend(emphasis on your opinion). Go look around in other markets. The M3/M4/M5 markets, they have people waiving money around waiting for new parts without having seen a single sight or sound of them. Because they can. Other people need to see a thousand passes down the drag strip to be convinced.

If it breaks your bank, then maybe you shouldn't buy the upgrade period. There is always the mortgage and other stuff to pay off afterall. For me? This is all just one fun bad habbit

I never said it's too much to spend. What I did say is that it's a lot of money to spend, regardless of who you are, on something that isn't proven, especially when other companies have tried and failed. It is reasonable to be at lease somewhat skeptical at this time. If it's proven capable and reliable in real life (not on a dyno or a shop car), and lives up to the hype then I think the price is reasonable.

It's silly to compare to an M3/M4/M5... Our cars are depreciating so quickly, and now were talking about $5000 transmission replacements and $1000 of labor on cars that are only worth less than $10k. That's a terrible investment by anyone's standards. But our hobbies often trump fiscal common sense. A fun bad habit it exactly right!

Originally Posted by ferocity02

especially when other companies have tried and failed

They failed because they were doing it wrong from the get-go; period. Evidence being that inadequacies were easily and immediately noticed in every aspect of the build; from customer service to lack of programming, to the shrouded mystery behind what they were actually doing in there with hard parts and otherwise. The latest developments are the only ones that ever made sense right out of the gate; positive results will likely prove that in short time.

Originally Posted by ferocity02

Our cars are depreciating so quickly, and now were talking about $5000 transmission replacements and $1000 of labor on cars that are only worth less than $10k.

It may be time to sell your E90 and move onto a GT-R, 911, etc.

[RSTECH]

Originally Posted by FCobra94

It may be time to sell your E90 and move onto a GT-R, 911, etc.

I have to agree with you, that way of thinking is what keeps platforms from moving on

[klipse]

Originally Posted by ferocity02

I never said it's too much to spend. What I did say is that it's a lot of money to spend, regardless of who you are, on something that isn't proven, especially when other companies have tried and failed. It is reasonable to be at lease somewhat skeptical at this time. If it's proven capable and reliable in real life (not on a dyno or a shop car), and lives up to the hype then I think the price is reasonable.

It's silly to compare to an M3/M4/M5... Our cars are depreciating so quickly, and now were talking about $5000 transmission replacements and $1000 of labor on cars that are only worth less than $10k. That's a terrible investment by anyone's standards. But our hobbies often trump fiscal common sense. A fun bad habit it exactly right!

You know, people who use the value of a car to justify their modifications as investments just aren't true car enthusiasts. You'll be gone after all your complaining while the rest of us are still here tuning.

[RSTECH]

Originally Posted by klipse

You know, people who use the value of a car to justify their modifications as investments just aren't true car enthusiasts. You'll be gone after all your complaining while the rest of us are still here tuning.

You ether build this because you love this or a few years down the line I see them and they always tell me
" it just wasn't for me is waste of money"
Oooo yea is a waste of money, since when the heck is a car and investment or a cash flow asset? I could had told you that from the beginning

[klipse]

Originally Posted by RSTECH

You ether build this because you love this or a few years down the line I see them and they always tell me
" it just wasn't for me is waste of money"
Oooo yea is a waste of money, since when the heck is a car and investment or a cash flow asset? I could had told you that from the beginning

Its pencil pushers trying to justify their expense(incorrectly). I already know my mods are nothing more than a man's diamonds and handbags.

EDIT: Not to mention, even if the cars put 100k on them, he still will have something negative to say. Like the car has depreciated too much, lol. Some people just can't be made happy.

If there isn't enough evidence yet, fine. That is understandable, everyone has a different opinion. But don't say its a bad investment because the car isn't worth much. Its like the other guy trying to say that 65 dollars to ship an intake manifold internationally was too much, simply because the intake manifold only cost 270 bucks. The value of the item being shipped has absolutely no bearing on the logistics and costs of transportation of goods or materials. The product is a good value or not. The shipping is a good value or not. The total cost is a good value or not. That is it. Making a correlation between the value of the item being shipped(or modded in this case) and the value of the shipping (or the mods themselves) would be silly as they are completely unrelated in these circumstances. Car modifications are not investments. If someone believed that, they are an awful investor and I wouldn't trust any financial advice from them, ever.

[klipse]

Also, for those looking for more data, looks like more information was posted about the calibration, here is some of it:

[E92 420]

Originally Posted by RSTECH

You ether build this because you love this or a few years down the line I see them and they always tell me
" it just wasn't for me is waste of money"
Oooo yea is a waste of money, since when the heck is a car and investment or a cash flow asset? I could had told you that from the beginning

^^this^^

I mod my car because It's what I love to do, not to get money back!!
Can't believe there's guys talking like this. If that's how u think you shouldn't be modding. Full stop.

If you want an investment or money back get into classic cars not this platform

[Cory S]

Definitely not enough testing time OR tested units out there... Period.

I can purchase SIX 6HP21's with a warranty for $5300.00