[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by GooseMSU

... no crank no start issue now for a couple days. I changed a long coolant pipe which had been leaking and now that issue is solved. Though, when I first tried to start the vehicle after the repair, there was no crank and no start. The car was fine before completing the repair... I pulled up ista and read the codes as follows:
No communication possible with: Transmission Control Unit
No communication possible with: Junction box electronics/gateway module
No communication possible with: Safety module/restraint system
No communication possible with: Engine electronics or diesel electronics
No communication possible with: Dynamic stability control
No communication possible with: Car access system
No communication possible with: Instrument panel
No communication with control unit possible...

I presume this relates to your 2008 335xi? Please see how to use ISTA to do initial Diagnosis as described in attached pdf: "Fault Memory & Test Plan". Then do following:

1) Connect to Vehicle & View, Save, Post ScreenPrint of "Control Unit Tree" as described Section I of pdf.

2) View, Save, Post ScreenPtint of "Fault Memory" as described in Section III of pdf.

3) Has ISTA and the K+DCAN Cable you are NOW using worked on this vehicle PREVIOUSLY?

4) When you follow steps 1 - 6 in Section 1, do you get ANY error messages before you see "Control Unit Tree"? If so, please attach ScreenPrint of any error message with description of WHAT command you created resulted in error message (which step you were executing).

Providing that information will get us started in Diagnosis process. The JBE Module is the Hub or Gateway to which ISTA connects when you use ISTA. I presume you have a number of "S-Codes" indicating communication errors. That does NOT mean your DME is damaged.

The first suspect is a Power Supply issue. Did you get any "Sparks" from short-circuit during the repair, and if so, WHERE in the vehicle?
George

[GooseMSU]

Thank you for the reply. I should have updated on the post that those communication issue errors went away after a couple more cycles of reading codes. Now the codes I read are ones that I know of. We had been messing with the battery because of the no crank no start and that must be why I got those codes. I know I mentioned that I had tried to ground the engine to the chassis and that nothing happened but I gave it another try with a better ground on the engine so that I could confidently rule out this possibility and the car started. Now I just have to find where I’m having a ground issue. Thank you very much for the help you provided me and the help you provide to others with similar issues. If I have any other electrical issues, I know who to come to haha.

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by GooseMSU

... I gave it another try with a better ground on the engine so that I could confidently rule out this possibility and the car started. Now I just have to find where I’m having a ground issue...

So there is NO CRANK of Starter when START button pressed with foot on clutch/brake, UNLESS you attach a "Supplementary Ground Cable" (such as Jumpstart Cable) from Chassis to good Engine Metal? If Starter THEN Cranks & Engine Starts, your Main Ground Strap is failing.

That Ground Strap is between the Chassis to Left of Starter, and Engine at Starter, accessed from BENEATH the vehicle after removal of Splash Shield under engine.
George

[Macg35]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

This is ONE fault which is MUCH easier to Diagnose if you have INPA or ISTA (BMW Factory-Level, or Dealer-Level Diagnostic Software). Both are available FREE if you have a Windows OS Laptop. Only cost is K+DCAN Cable to connect Laptop USB Port to Vehicle OBD II Socket. That is $45 or less.

Diagnosing most Electrical Faults requires Electrical Testing. "Disabuse yourself" of the concept that there is only ONE thing that can cause a particular performance issue. There are literally DOZENS of things that can cause a "No Crank" condition as you describe.

The place to start is with the CAS Module wiring circuit, as the CAS (Car Access System) Module activates the Starter Solenoid. If you have an AT (Automatic Transmission), the CAS must get signals from the Brake Light Switch (directly) that it is Active (brake lights ON), and that Shift Lever is in Park (via Bus System). If you have MT, the Clutch Switch signal must be received by CAS (directly) that clutch is pressed.

Only with receipt of those signals will the CAS activate KL50 or Terminal 50 Relay within the CAS Module (over Driver's knees), to activate the Starter Solenoid. There are also possible wiring issues between the CAS Module Connector and the Starter Solenoid, via several connectors within the E-box where the DME (Engine Control Module) is located.

1) If you need the vehicle immediately, have it towed to a BMW Independent shop.
2) If you can wait several days to get the vehicle operational, have a multimeter, and basic tools and auto system knowledge (JUST basic, NOT shop-level ;-) we may be able to identify the issue and correct it. It may be something as simple as a loose wire or corroded connector.

The Good News is that ISTA contains specific wiring diagrams for systems in YOUR vehicle. However, the JB layout, Fuse layout, and components in the E-box changed as of 3/1/2007, in the MIDDLE of the 2007 Model Run, so I need your Last-7 Charcters of VIN to look up correct info on CAS system, and to furnish you with specific tests to do, with copies of wiring diagrams, component locations, and connector views. So please do following preliminary tests and provide VIN-7 and answers. If your vehicle has CA (Comfort Access), your results MAY differ:

I. No Crank Tests:
When Press Start Button with Foot on Brake/Clutch, Starter does NOT Crank/Turn Engine;
Perform tests exactly as written, steps in order; Record & Post Test Results:

1) Open door and sit in Driver Seat, Close Door; Light by “P” on AT Gear Display should be Lit; unlocking car or opening door wakes car out of “Sleep Mode”;
2) Insert Remote Key in Insert Compartment; Radio should play, Radio Panel lights up; Terminal R Activated by CAS;
3) Check that Brake Lights light when Brake Pedal is pressed; tests that Brake lights are powered by Terminal R, AND that Brake Light Switch functions, sending signal to CAS & FRM;
4) WITHOUT pressing Brake/Clutch, press & release START Button: Instrument Cluster should light; ALL lights and accessories (windows, A/C, etc.) should operate; CAS has activated Terminal 30g “Accessory” Relay (large black relay on R of JB Fuse Panel), & Terminal 15 Ignition Relay (soldered to JB circuit board);
5) Press Brake Pedal and move AT Shift Lever out of Park to R & N; Gear display on Lower Instrument Cluster (as well as Gear Display light by lever) indicates BUS signal received;
6) Press Brake or Clutch and then press START button; if Starter does NOT crank engine, get helper; open hood & listen over Left Fender/Wing, at rear of Intake Manifold, for “CLICK” of Starter Solenoid as Helper presses START button with foot on Brake/Clutch; NOTE sound(s);

Report precise results of those tests. Indicate if you have:
0) Last-7 Characters of VIN; needed to lookup correct ISTA wiring diagrams;
1) INPA or ISTA, BMW Diagnostic Software;
2) Laptop PC with Windows OS;
3) Multimeter;
4) Scan Tool Make & Model; can it read Parameters or Live Data in CAS Module?

With that information, we can furnish “Next Steps”.
George

I went through your list to see if it could solve my issue and the CAS is doing everything it should. I ordered the obd2 to usb cord but i am trying to figure out how to download the software. If you could give me any pointers on how to get the software. I found one from Bimmergeek and its about 89 but you mentioned finding it for free. Basically i did a valve cover gasket and replaced the ccv hose on my E90 before doing it i had no issues starting but after theres no crank. Ive went through and triple checked everything took a multimeter to my power and ground as well checking the starter and everything is good. So im hoping the software could possibly provide some insight. I spoke with a buddie who mentioned the valvetronic gasket needs to be relearned from the forums ive read they mention it needs done by the software but ive also read you can do it without it. Even if i can do it without the software id still like it for a future reference. Could you let me know where you got the software from?

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by Macg35

... i am trying to figure out how to download the software. If you could give me any pointers on how to get the software...

Welcome to the Forum!
The post you Quote is from 2021. I do NOT know where/if you can NOW get a free INPA/E89 Datens/ ISTA download. From 2017 through 2022, that software was available on MEGA & elsewhere, FREE. NOT like someone was making money by SELLING BMW work product/ "Intellectual Property". I have NO IDEA who let that horse out of the barn, or when, but in last Year+, BMW has "Persuaded" MEGA sites, and those who linked MEGA sites, to "cease & desist".

RANT Below:
BMW vehicles, at least those produced PRIOR to 2008 recession, when parts-supplier issues apparently arose/increased, were reliable, well-made vehicles, at least those I'm aware of. They are capable of being maintained for 20 to 30 years, if properly repaired. "F30" has > 400,000 miles on his 2006. He has nearly as many "Deer Strikes" as Speeding Tickets.

Apparently BMW "thinks" the owner of a car that is 12 to 20 years old, and worth LESS (often much less ;-) than $10K, or 20% of its NEW price, is going to take that vehicle to a licensed $Dealer for diagnosis & repair. Apparently BMW "thinks" that they will make MONEY by:
1) Enhancing License/Parts profits from $Dealers;
2) Preventing owners of vehicles, NO LONGER in warranty, from understanding HOW vehicle systems work (wiring, component function, etc.). Thus preventing Owner, or a capable Mechanic/ Tech, from properly DIAGNOSING/ Repairing the vehicle.
3) Coercing Owner to sell/scrap vehicle and GET NEW BMW???
4) Enlarging segment of population who feels INCAPABLE of understanding how anything works, and FORCING them to "Take it to the $Dealer".
5) Charging $2,800/ year for TIS access.

DIY Dinosaurs like me are totally "dismayed" (PO'd) by the "Current Business Model". The "Bean Counters" who seek to create "Constant Cash Flow" have prevailed over the "Old-school Engineers" who sought to manufacture a superior product ("Ultimate Driving Machine").

So you can NOW find "Video's" made by folks of varying degrees of skill or knowledge of E9x Function/ Design, and HOPE (unreasonably ;-) those are reliable, but BMW does NOT want you to have "Factory/ BMW" information on your 12-20 year-old vehicle. They DON'T even offer that information at a reasonable price. And the search for "Intelligent Life" goes on.

BTW, given that this is your FIRST post on the Forum, Welcome! BUT, good luck finding someone who will provide copy of SW Files. They ARE still "Out There".
George

[moiz]

My e60 won't start. Was having issues aswell last few weeks where I would try to start it after a long drive and it wouldn't start. So I turned ignition off and tried again and pressing brake pedal harder and would start. From few days ago now the car won't start at all. Makes fuel pump noise when I try to start it but nothing. Also makes 2 clicking noises when I turn ignition on.

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by moiz

My e60 won't start... So I turned ignition off and tried again and pressing brake pedal harder and would start. From few days ago now the car won't start at all. Makes fuel pump noise when I try to start it but nothing. Also makes 2 clicking noises when I turn ignition on.

NO Crank? When you press START button with foot on brake, Starter does NOT "Crank"/Turn Engine?

If so, Check to see if your Brake Lights work with Remote Key in Insert Compartment (when radio comes on), or when Ignition ON (Press Start Button WITHOUT pressing Brake).

If brake light Switch has failed, Starter will NOT be Activated by CAS Module, as it cannot confirm the Brake is applied. Please post back with details. Also, please indicate:
1) Make/Model of any Scan Tool or diagnostic software available.
2) Last-7 Characters of your VIN.
George

[moiz]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

NO Crank? When you press START button with foot on brake, Starter does NOT "Crank"/Turn Engine?

If so, Check to see if your Brake Lights work with Remote Key in Insert Compartment (when radio comes on), or when Ignition ON (Press Start Button WITHOUT pressing Brake).

If brake light Switch has failed, Starter will NOT be Activated by CAS Module, as it cannot confirm the Brake is applied. Please post back with details. Also, please indicate:
1) Make/Model of any Scan Tool or diagnostic software available.
2) Last-7 Characters of your VIN.
George

Hi George. Yes no crank. Only when I put key in slot and press start button without putting foot on brake I'll hear 2 clicks from somewhere, not sure if it's from starter or something else. Also brake lights turn on when I put foot on break when ignition is on. And I've been using inpa to diagnose. Also last 7 digits of my vin is cf39218.

[moiz]

Any idea? Really stuck with this

[NCBimmerDriver]

Can someone hook me up with insta for my 2006 330i?

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by moiz

... no crank. Only when I put key in slot and press start button without putting foot on brake I'll hear 2 clicks from somewhere... Also brake lights turn on when I put foot on break when ignition is on. And I've been using inpa to diagnose. Also last 7 digits of my vin is cf39218.

Please attach INPA ScreenPrints of following, per attached pdf:

1) INPA > Functional Jobs > F4 > F1 Fault Memory, ALL Modules;

2) INPA > DME (N53) > F4 Error Memory > F1 Read Fault Memory > F3 Fault Memory with FF Data

3) INPA > CAS (Body | Car Access System > F4 Error Memory > F1 Read Fault Memory

You can also see Live Data connected to CAS Module, to see CAS Terminal Status, which will show if CAS is correctly Activating Starter via KL50.
INPA > CAS > F5 > F2 Analog > F1 CAS Terminal Status
George

[moiz]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

Please attach INPA ScreenPrints of following, per attached pdf:

1) INPA > Functional Jobs > F4 > F1 Fault Memory, ALL Modules;

2) INPA > DME (N53) > F4 Error Memory > F1 Read Fault Memory > F3 Fault Memory with FF Data

3) INPA > CAS (Body | Car Access System > F4 Error Memory > F1 Read Fault Memory

You can also see Live Data connected to CAS Module, to see CAS Terminal Status, which will show if CAS is correctly Activating Starter via KL50.
INPA > CAS > F5 > F2 Analog > F1 CAS Terminal Status
George

I have attached all the screenshots below and video of live data for cas terminal and you can see it's activating the starter when try to turn car on . I really don't know what else. I've checked all fuses they seem fine. Mechanic did come over and said the relay in glove box green one is faulty and fuse 30 for ignition but they look fine. He tested with multimeter I think and saw there was no power. So I've ordered these 2 anyway to see if it would fix but Im not sure really if it will fix . I'm thinking it's the starter. Thanks appreciate you helping me alot.

[moiz]

The video didn't upload for some reason. But it changes voltage when I try starting the car

[moiz]

Originally Posted by moiz

The video didn't upload for some reason. But it changes voltage when I try starting the car

Took screenshot from the video to show voltage change when trying to start the car

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by moiz

Took screenshot from the video to show voltage change when trying to start the car

Your last ScreenPrint shows Terminal 50 (KL50L) 11.57V when START button is pressed with foot on brake, & 10.59Amp
Current. If the Starter were actually Cranking the engine, there would be ~ 2V Voltage Drop, and all your voltage readings
would be in 10V to 10.5V range. So you either have (1) a wiring fault in the KL50 voltage supply from CAS to Starter Solenoid
(there are two intermediate connectors in the E-Box) or (2) the Starter Solenoid is NOT "pulling-in" to engage Starter
Motor. While it is PROBABLY the latter, there are two things you could try to identify the cause.

1) See ISTA ScreenPrints of Wiring between CAS & Starter Solenoid, open E-box & test for voltage at connectors when START
is activated. You can also apply 12V+ to the line running to Starter Solenoid, ENSURING in PARK/ NEUTRAL, as you are
defeating the Safety Switches. Set HANDBRAKE.

2) Use a Wooden dowel or wooden/plastic broom handle to tap on Starter Solenoid (small cylinder) to see if engagement.

Please let us know what you find.
George

[moiz]

Hi which connector is it exactly that I'm testing and which pins to test for voltage? And what should voltage be on those? Thanks

[moiz]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

Your last ScreenPrint shows Terminal 50 (KL50L) 11.57V when START button is pressed with foot on brake, & 10.59Amp
Current. If the Starter were actually Cranking the engine, there would be ~ 2V Voltage Drop, and all your voltage readings
would be in 10V to 10.5V range. So you either have (1) a wiring fault in the KL50 voltage supply from CAS to Starter Solenoid
(there are two intermediate connectors in the E-Box) or (2) the Starter Solenoid is NOT "pulling-in" to engage Starter
Motor. While it is PROBABLY the latter, there are two things you could try to identify the cause.

1) See ISTA ScreenPrints of Wiring between CAS & Starter Solenoid, open E-box & test for voltage at connectors when START
is activated. You can also apply 12V+ to the line running to Starter Solenoid, ENSURING in PARK/ NEUTRAL, as you are
defeating the Safety Switches. Set HANDBRAKE.

2) Use a Wooden dowel or wooden/plastic broom handle to tap on Starter Solenoid (small cylinder) to see if engagement.

Please let us know what you find.
George

And also what about the fuse and relay I ordered? Mechanic tested both . A 30amp maxi fuse green one which is in glove box and a green fuse pump relay. He tested with multi meter and said both are bad. The parts are coming on Monday. Do you think it could fix it? I will do your test in the meantime also.

[moiz]

Originally Posted by moiz

And also what about the fuse and relay I ordered? Mechanic tested both . A 30amp maxi fuse green one which is in glove box and a green fuse pump relay. He tested with multi meter and said both are bad. The parts are coming on Monday. Do you think it could fix it? I will do your test in the meantime also.

Replaced relay and fuse and nothing. Knew it wouldn't be that.

[moiz]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

Your last ScreenPrint shows Terminal 50 (KL50L) 11.57V when START button is pressed with foot on brake, & 10.59Amp
Current. If the Starter were actually Cranking the engine, there would be ~ 2V Voltage Drop, and all your voltage readings
would be in 10V to 10.5V range. So you either have (1) a wiring fault in the KL50 voltage supply from CAS to Starter Solenoid
(there are two intermediate connectors in the E-Box) or (2) the Starter Solenoid is NOT "pulling-in" to engage Starter
Motor. While it is PROBABLY the latter, there are two things you could try to identify the cause.

1) See ISTA ScreenPrints of Wiring between CAS & Starter Solenoid, open E-box & test for voltage at connectors when START
is activated. You can also apply 12V+ to the line running to Starter Solenoid, ENSURING in PARK/ NEUTRAL, as you are
defeating the Safety Switches. Set HANDBRAKE.

2) Use a Wooden dowel or wooden/plastic broom handle to tap on Starter Solenoid (small cylinder) to see if engagement.

Please let us know what you find.
George

Hi George, ive tapped on starter with someone cranking car and still nothing, i did this test :

and i get the same results also so i think its possibly starter. Just not sure again which cables to test like you said above, im confused on which to test exactly and can i use a light probe which shows volts instead of multimeter? thanks.

[moiz]

Update guys. Replaced starter with Bosch one and car starts right up!