[JOYRIIDE1113]

Originally Posted by ///Matt

I didn't say best, or that nothing compares.

And pardon my saying so, but I've found in my time that most upgrades are psychological. People expect more out of this great aftermarket part they got, so they imagine everything is better, but don't have a true basis for comparison.

As I mentioned, I've driven literally thousands of BMW's. I have a basis for comparison, and I don't recommend changing pads. This will be my last post inthis thread, because I'm not going to keep arguing this point with you. Do as you will.

Matt

You call that arguing?

I ahven't called your mom fat or anything yet...LOL...J/k

This was a discussion that I was looking forward to.

[martieg]

Matt///:

(I'm not an expert at this, that's why I begun this thread on the first place).

Browsing the Porsche website, I tried the confirgurator (or build your car option).

Porsche offers an option called ceramic pads, which by the way is a lot more expensive that the defaul pads. I think also Lamborghini and Ferrari offer ceramic pads as a better option.

Are ceramic pads better than regular?

Another question on brakes - perforated discs - what's the advantage?

Thanks in advance for your knowledge sharing.

[andrew 330i]

see my rotex posting for the dust reduction...

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ighlight=rotex

[valiant]

I cleaned my wheels initially with Klasse AIO, then put three coats of Klasse SG. I can now wipe the brake dust off with a QD spray and paper towels. The Klasse makes the wheels very slick.

I have ocassionally put the Klasse SG on the wheels without buffing it off. It makes the dust come off even easier then and does not dull-up the wheels that much.

[macboi]

Originally Posted by ///Matt

I didn't say best, or that nothing compares.

And pardon my saying so, but I've found in my time that most upgrades are psychological. People expect more out of this great aftermarket part they got, so they imagine everything is better, but don't have a true basis for comparison.

As I mentioned, I've driven literally thousands of BMW's. I have a basis for comparison, and I don't recommend changing pads. This will be my last post inthis thread, because I'm not going to keep arguing this point with you. Do as you will.

Matt

you dont have to brake hard alllllllllllll the time, just keeep away about 20 yards

[martieg]

I actually got used already to cleaning my car (and hence the wheels) weekly.

I now use 3 different brushes (I have the 330i w/ sport package rims):

- A wheel face brush
- A wheel spoke brush (the newest addition)
- A tire brush

With the right equipment, the work is done in a snap.

I also recently made a change in my procedure to wash the car - I now clean the wheels and tires first (I used to do it at the end). It's better because I do a better job due to when I finish washing the car I can go directly to dry it instead of "oh no, now the wheels". Plus doing the wheels first when I'm fresh it's better.

[BK]

Originally Posted by Boondoggler

Ooh! Cool. Is this stuff in a typical auto store (Pep Boys, Auto Zone, etc?), or do you have to order it online? Before I put on my snows, I might use it on the new rims, and then I can do the 162s once I take them off, too. I hate brake dust.

[shragon]

imho, ebc pads are complete garbage. i had the ebc green pads on my last bimmer, and removed them. those pads transfered a bunch of pad material to my rotors, making them feel like they were warped. i removed them after two months of driving. switched over to the axxis ultimate pads. the axxis pads were still dusty, but a lot better than the pos ebc pads. i'll never touch an ebc product again.

anyway, wheel wax does help. it doesn't totally eliminate brake dust, but i noticed less. i also found the wheels were a lot easier to clean (i always use car wash soap).

[wuufer001]

same as you, been washing my car every sunday cause mine's also showing alot of dust. sometimes i actually like the color of the wheels when it's like in a dark gray color, IMO it matches the car sometimes lol.
well i remember taking my car for a wash at the dealer and when i brought it back i remember that the wheels had this oil-like thing on it. drove it for a few days and was getting dirty and had black spots on them and decided to wipe them off and it just came off so easily. don't know if it's the wheelwax thing or what though.

[espo]

Originally Posted by Boondoggler

The Poorboys Wheel Sealant that picus recommends is great. I've been using it based on his recommendation and it makes cleanup a lot easier.

+1 on the Poorboys.. I put 2-3 coats on the wheels when I do them. That lasts about 3-4 months. Less dust sticks on the wheels and what does comes off very easily with some car soap and a dedicated wash mitt (bushes just don't seem to work too well for me).

[picus]

I still put poorboys WS on every car I do. It's worth the extra 5 minutes because I know it'll save me time down the road.

[aarnt]

Originally Posted by lecatrache

Another question on brakes - perforated discs - what's the advantage?

Well ,in one word, NONE! It is claimed that they are better cooled due to the holes, but it is , the holes are getting packed with pad material and the disc has a lot more chances of getting cracked. If they were better you would see such solutions in nascar or F1. Still, you do not brake as hard as race drivers do, but I would avoid them (as BMW seems to be avoiding them too!). Also I would not be surprised if the pad is wearing out faster and unevenly since one of the surfaces (the hard one) has variations in the friction coefficient perpendicular to the friction path, but not continuous! As for the discs with a thin strip perforation, they still get stuffed by brake dust, an they still have some chances (even though less) to crack.

Do a search in Google, I once had a link of a document arguing about the issue, written by a F1 (if i remember right) engineer. He clearly concluded that they are used for cosmetic purposes.

[martieg]

Originally Posted by aarnt

Well ,in one word, NONE! It is claimed that they are better cooled due to the holes, but it is , the holes are getting packed with pad material and the disc has a lot more chances of getting cracked. If they were better you would see such solutions in nascar or F1. Still, you do not brake as hard as race drivers do, but I would avoid them (as BMW seems to be avoiding them too!). Also I would not be surprised if the pad is wearing out faster and unevenly since one of the surfaces (the hard one) has variations in the friction coefficient perpendicular to the friction path, but not continuous! As for the discs with a thin strip perforation, they still get stuffed by brake dust, an they still have some chances (even though less) to crack.

Do a search in Google, I once had a link of a document arguing about the issue, written by a F1 (if i remember right) engineer. He clearly concluded that they are used for cosmetic purposes.

Thanks!

[cal99_99]

I just bought a wheelwax from ebay. when i opened it, it only has 3/4 full and not sealed with anything. I am wondering if it has been used before? or they all come like that, anyone?

[espo]

Originally Posted by picus

I still put poorboys WS on every car I do. It's worth the extra 5 minutes because I know it'll save me time down the road.

5 minutes... Damn I have to take some detailing lessons from you.. It takes me about 1 hour to do a coat on all four wheels (apply and buff).

[picus]

Originally Posted by espo

5 minutes... Damn I have to take some detailing lessons from you.. It takes me about 1 hour to do a coat on all four wheels (apply and buff).

An hour, really? I usually apply it before I start polishing or applying sealant, let it sit the whole time I am working, then buff it off afterwards. Remember, you only need a super, super thin layer. I use a foam applicator.

[Ninjaneer]

Originally Posted by picus

An hour, really? I usually apply it before I start polishing or applying sealant, let it sit the whole time I am working, then buff it off afterwards. Remember, you only need a super, super thin layer. I use a foam applicator.

+1

Doesn't take long to apply or buff out

[espo]

Originally Posted by Ninjaneer

+1

Doesn't take long to apply or buff out

I'm including some wait time between applying it and buffing. (since it was about 45 in the garage by the time I do to it). Think about it 5 minutes to fully dry the wheel, and apply the wax X 4 tires = 20 minutes. wait about 15 minutes for everything to dry. Then another 5 minutes per wheel to remove the wax and buff x 4 = another 20 minutes.. Adds up to about 1 hour. BTW I do use a foam applicator and put a reasonablly thin film on the wheel (but not as thin as I would put Zanio on the car).

Now I am taking my time. I'm confortable in the garage, the stero is on and I'm not really in a big hurry. Often I also am doing something while waiting for the wax to dry (like vacuum out the interior, clean windows, etc).

[picus]

Ah, gotchya. It's my job so I have a routine down, I do other things while the WS is drying, etc. That's why I said 5 min (although it's probably more like 10!)

[therealm3]

I am going to have to disagree with some of your statements here. Yes, BMW does make great breaks and they choose good pads, but there are better pads out there that will stop faster, and some of them even make less dust doing so. I agree with you that most “dustless” pads are not going to stop better than the OE pads. But, others will. BMW chooses the pads they do because they have a high coefficient of friction and they reach that level of friction at a low temperature. This is why they bite hard right away (your 35mph example). But, they will not maintain that ability as you make repeated hard stops or are stopping from really high speeds over and over again, like on a track. This is why race cars in “stock” class never have OE pads. Race compound pads in stock brake systems will stop better than OE pads any day, but they will do it differently. They will make a hell of a lot more noise and they will need to build a bit of heat first. (not ideal for a street car) The heat is needed to bring the pad up to the temperature where its compound reaches optimum friction coefficient. Different manufacturers use different compounds to achieve different results. Some are better at it than others. There are pads like the Hawk HPS that will make less dust and stop better because the compound used has a broader temperature range and a pad compound with higher friction properties. So when you stop gently it will not bite as hard as the OE pad but it still stops well due to the compound properties, but seeing the pad is not at its peak operating temp (highest friction coefficient) it won’t dump as much dust. Once you get the pad up to its optimal temp it will create just as much dust but will stop better than the OE pad. This is why after a canyon run or auto-x your wheels are still black when using these pads. I personally like having a pad like this because I think the OE pads tend to over break for the amount of pedal effort. I prefer the ability to modulate the brakes a bit more and have less of the all or nothing feel. So I get two wins, cleaner wheels and a better brake system for me.

Originally Posted by ///Matt

EBC MIGHT make a line of brake pads that are better than BMW OEM, but I KNOW that they also make pads that can't compare to BMW.

I've driven thousands of BMW's. I can get into a car, drive it up to 35 miles an hour, touch the brakes, and tell you immediately if the car is equipped with factory or aftermarket brakes (NOT counting BBK's). They NEVER EVER stop as well as the OEM brakes. BMW makes a GREAT set of brakes. Don't ruin that for dust.

Brakes stop cars by generating friction between a stationary component and a rotating component. The friction turns kinetic energy (motion) into heat energy, and dissipates the heat to the road through the tires and to the atmostphere via conduction to the air. The softer your brake pads and rotors are, the higher the friction coefficient, or the more friction they generate.

Dust free pads are dust free by being much harder than BMW pads. Harder pads generate much less friction. they stop the car less well, they cause more noice, and they lose even more stopping power when wet than regular brakes do.

I checked the price of EBC.
http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/pe...=583&year=2006

They are just slightly LESS expensive than OEM. My dealership charges about $95 for a set of E90 pads.

I'm going based on experience here. If you change your pads, you're losing one of the very reasons you bought a BMW: great performance. Great performance includes great brakes.

The ONLY time I'd say changing BMW brakes to aftermarket is a good thing is going to a quality BBK, and even then I'm still hesitant to say it's a good thing until your free maintenance plan expires. Why spend money twice??

Matt

[therealm3]

It’s not just ceramic pads. They use ceramic rotors as well. Chemistry lesson: most friction is generated by rubbing two parts of the same substance together. ie, ceramic pads on ceramic rotors. Or carbon pads on carbon rotors. Its not normal practice on production cars to do this because of cost. If you are bored do a search for articles on F1 braking systems and the process to make the rotors. Crazy.

Originally Posted by lecatrache

Matt///:

(I'm not an expert at this, that's why I begun this thread on the first place).

Browsing the Porsche website, I tried the confirgurator (or build your car option).

Porsche offers an option called ceramic pads, which by the way is a lot more expensive that the defaul pads. I think also Lamborghini and Ferrari offer ceramic pads as a better option.

Are ceramic pads better than regular?

Another question on brakes - perforated discs - what's the advantage?

Thanks in advance for your knowledge sharing.