[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Yes, I'll start a new thread later this week about this. As well as help get the comparative info to start flowing. Basicially, we'll be using a passive procede to high-speed datalog can data on other tunes. And then apply mathematics functions (that are already implemented in the logging software) to make analysis. I started doing this before I left on vacation last week. I'll try to finish it up tomorrow when I get back to the office. But even the preliminary results were fascinating.

Whats cool is that users will be able to conduct data analysis of tunes at a higher rate/resolution than that of the tuners who calibrated the tune.

Shiv

Sounds like a fun tool. If nothing else this will allow users who own both to do something productive with their V4.

At some point I'll be posting a JB3 tuning guide showing users how to adjust the various JB3 parameters to optimize throttle response to their liking and reduce overshoot/throttle closure. You can do much of it with a single parameter called throttle gain, but there are some other tricks with pid gain and min pwm. The JB3 logging gives you everything you need to do to dial it in.

Mike

[TakeOne]

You could always send an email to each tuner and see how long it takes for one of them to respond. Might give you an idea on which product to go with and who to give your money to.

[pcmike]

I've been emailing with Terry/BMS and of course the response time is crazy fast. Also, I called Vishnu this morning and they answered the phone on the 2nd ring. At any rate, not sure this is the best criteria to choose a tune?

[E92White]

Originally Posted by TakeOne

You could always send an email to each tuner and see how long it takes for one of them to respond. Might give you an idea on which product to go with and who to give your money to.

+1

They're both great tunes..personally I say go with whatever you think is best for your needs and your wallet..alot of ppl go with the JB3 for the performance,the incredible customer service,and awesome price.

[jaza45]

I went from procede to Jb3, because that suits me better, althought the procede has some nice features and claims to be safer, my car runs way better with the jb3.

Plus I have the peace of mind that if I need any help with the tune or the car itself, BMS technical support will go above and beyond to help me fix whatever problem I have...

I also just ran 11.9 using the new JB3 2.0 plus meth, but there where a hand full of jb3's with just an intake runing mid 12's. that was just something for you to think about.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

Sounds like a fun tool. If nothing else this will allow users who own both to do something productive with their V4.

At some point I'll be posting a JB3 tuning guide showing users how to adjust the various JB3 parameters to optimize throttle response to their liking and reduce overshoot/throttle closure. You can do much of it with a single parameter called throttle gain, but there are some other tricks with pid gain and min pwm. The JB3 logging gives you everything you need to do to dial it in.

Mike

Actually, the logging that we will provide to jb3 users will be far more useful since it integrates dme CAN data with actual values. Of special interest is going to be the relationship between boost, applied throttle and actual throttle. And the sampling rate which is 3-5 times faster than what you offer will allow users to compare fun stuff like turbo response/lag, targetting speed, and stability. So when 1 tunes feels "much more responsive than the other", the user can look at the data and see why. No marketting bs. Just black and white data.

And custom tuning, IMHO, is mainly for dialing in the driving characteristic that the user prefers. Not fixing calibration errors or faulty PID/boost control logic.

Shiv

[FotiosF90M5]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Actually, the logging that we will provide to jb3 users will be far more useful since it integrates dme CAN data with actual values. Of special interest is going to be the relationship between boost, applied throttle and actual throttle. And the sampling rate which is 3-5 times faster than what you offer will allow users to compare fun stuff like turbo response/lag, targetting speed, and stability. So when 1 tunes feels "much more responsive than the other", the user can look at the data and see why. No marketting bs. Just black and white data.

And custom tuning, IMHO, is mainly for dialing in the driving characteristic that the user prefers. Not fixing calibration errors or faulty PID/boost control logic.

Shiv

very interesting. This will show a lot of things to think about. True comparing.

[pcmike]

Seems like even more reason for me to take my time and not jump into anything. By the way if anyone wants to sell their procede rev1 for $75-100 shipped (must be PnP and have no broken pins, bent wires, etc) I'd like to buy it to get my feet wet.

[a32guy]

If you don't want to spend alot, get a JB3. If you want it done right, get a flash.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by pcmike

Seems like even more reason for me to take my time and not jump into anything. By the way if anyone wants to sell their procede rev1 for $75-100 shipped (must be PnP and have no broken pins, bent wires, etc) I'd like to buy it to get my feet wet.

Can't go wrong that route either. Have fun...

[Bimmer This]

Originally Posted by pcmike

I've been emailing with Terry/BMS and of course the response time is crazy fast. Also, I called Vishnu this morning and they answered the phone on the 2nd ring. At any rate, not sure this is the best criteria to choose a tune?

What? Vishnu picked up their phone? Your kidding me right? On the second ring? At one point when I needed technical help, I've call about 20 times in a single business day and no one has picked up. Left messages with no return calls. E-mailed problems with no response. They must have my number blocked????

[pcmike]

The money is not really an issue. I mean we are on a BMW forum, right? I'm looking for reliability, drivability, and ease of use. From what I've read there really is no easy way to get a flash without sending your DME through the mail (people actually do this, crazy). If you can point me to some way of getting a reflash in my area (South Florida) without actually doing anything special (meaning.. not doing anything that I wouldn't already be doing if I was getting a vishnu or jb3) I'm all ears. If not, it's really not a viable option.

[jaza45]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Actually, the logging that we will provide to jb3 users will be far more useful since it integrates dme CAN data with actual values. Of special interest is going to be the relationship between boost, applied throttle and actual throttle. And the sampling rate which is 3-5 times faster than what you offer will allow users to compare fun stuff like turbo response/lag, targetting speed, and stability. So when 1 tunes feels "much more responsive than the other", the user can look at the data and see why. No marketting bs. Just black and white data.

And custom tuning, IMHO, is mainly for dialing in the driving characteristic that the user prefers. Not fixing calibration errors or faulty PID/boost control logic.

Shiv

Funny, that's all...sounds like a guilty mind.....

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by ******

Funny, that's all...sounds like a guilty mind.....

It is certainly is a form of marketing. But it's not BS so I don't feel particularly guilty. Users can collect all the data they need to make sure the tune is doing what it is supposed to be doing. As well as QUANTIFY the obvious drivability difference(s) behind whatever tunes they test. And everyone will be encouraged to discuss/disclose their results publicly. Our tune will be just as exposed as jb3, giac, etc. Some won't like this. Some won't. But it will be a lot better than the usual [insert your tuner here] FTMFW posts here.

Shiv

[FotiosF90M5]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

It is certainly is a form of marketing. But it's not BS so I don't feel particularly guilty. Users can collect all the data they need to make sure the tune is doing what it is supposed to be doing. As well as QUANTIFY the obvious drivability difference(s) behind whatever tunes they test. And everyone will be encouraged to discuss/disclose their results publicly. Our tune will be just as exposed as jb3, giac, etc. Some won't like this. Some won't. But it will be a lot better than the usual [insert your tuner here] FTMFW posts here.

Shiv

will it be another box with a harness.? sorry to thread jack. Im just very curious.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by fotios335i

will it be another box with a harness.? sorry to thread jack. Im just very curious.

Just a simple PNP harness that has been modified to simply read (not alter) both analog and CANbus data. The data is fed into the rev2 unit which is installed *in series* with the tune that is being tested (giac, jb3, ect). If there is enough demand, I could even rent out these pnp harnesses for meets/dyno days for people to see what their tune is actually doing when viewed with a sharp eye.

Shiv

[NRG]

To the OP. If money is no issue why don't you bite the bullet for a short while and get both 2.0 and V4. Try them both on your car within 2 weeks period and return the one you didn't like. IMO one try is worth more then a thousand words you'll read here.

[FotiosF90M5]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Just a simple PNP harness that has been modified to simply read (not alter) both analog and CANbus data. The data is fed into the rev2 unit which is installed *in series* with the tune that is being tested (giac, jb3, ect). If there is enough demand, I could even rent out these pnp harnesses for meets/dyno days for people to see what their tune is actually doing when viewed with a sharp eye.

Shiv

sounds really cool. Could be a whole new venue from vishnu. The vishnu "PROview"

[Slidewayz]

If money is no object, get an E92 M3 with a supercharger.

[FotiosF90M5]

Originally Posted by Slidewayz

If money is no object, get an E92 M3 with a supercharger.

good point.

[NRG]

Originally Posted by Slidewayz

If money is no object, get an E92 M3 with a supercharger.

We're talking extra $500-1000 that he can refund in a week time. M3 sc alone is more then 20k. I thinks it should be obvious way of choosing these days since both tunes can be had for the price of V1 alone back in the days.

[HPFREAK]

If money were no object I think I would skip the M3, and go for an Underground racing TT Gallardo and be done with it as long as we are wishing

Originally Posted by Slidewayz

If money is no object, get an E92 M3 with a supercharger.