[tibra1]

Originally Posted by XJS

I am a bit biased since I chose GIAC, but COBB has had its fair share of problems and like tcsdennab is saying, if you search around the forum those with GIAC has had zero issues with the tune. It's really a flash and forget process.

The reason this is..is that GIAC took its time to develop and beta test stg 2..GIAC is much further along in perfecting tunes for our cars than COBB. No question on this..GIAC also doesnt have any tune related issues..NONE

[tibra1]

Originally Posted by LAE92

Power, performance, smooth delivery, CONSISTENCY, and the ability to resale if you don't like it or get sick of it you can resale it, where as with the GIAC you are completely out the money you "invested" in your tune. With that said, I have heard a lot of great things about GIAC II.

For a full year..I read and contacted everyone i could running GIAC stg 2 and was unable to find one negative post or comment..

The tune is a beast w FBO..I log consistent high3s; low4s. 0-60 times thru my rixster gauge running in pump mode..and with the handheld switcher I get 4 different maps..valet, stock, pump and race.

As Austin said whats the need to log when the tune is perfected and running correctly..I have the rixster gauage which allows me to see all key engine data..boost..air temp..coolant temp...EGT..ignition timing, throttle closure..I wanna spend my time driving the car not reading data off a laptop.

Re selling the tune? well thats advantage Tune X..but when u get the right tune why would u wanna sell it anyways..

[Rob@Cobb]

Originally Posted by Austin@GIAC

I am a bit confused as to why datalogging is such a concern if the tune runs properly out of the box. Our software for the N54 platform is easily the most well rounded option on the market. You will not get the same mixture of drivability and sheer power output anywhere else.

Further, I don't believe that anyone has come close to us with a plug and play high powered flash tune to date.

Lets face it we all drive BMWs because we love them, however they tend not to be as reliable even in a stock configuration. Having data logging is a great way to make sure your car is always running in tip top shape even when adding a little bit of power.

BMWs have layers of codes which may not present themselves to the owners of the vehicles. Having access to reading codes shows the underlying issues that now can be taken care of. An example would be the high pressure fuel pump issues. Until the pump(s) causes severe pressure loss the ECU does not alert the driver even if there are codes available for the dealer to preemptively replace the pump. We have helped several customers preemptively find problems that may have caused larger issues down the road.

Offering a low power tune which will not expose any issues with the car is an option. We prefer to offer several options of tunes to our customers from aggressive to tame all in the same device. If the customer chooses to run a more aggressive tune exposing a weakness in their car (old plugs, bad coil packs, boost leaks, etc), we help them fix the mechanical issues. If the user wants to run a conservative tune, they are welcome to all without needing to drive to a tuner or ship off their ECU. Heck they have the option to run what they want, when they want.

Maybe you can explain how no one has come close to GIAC with high powered tune as of yet?

Can I ask what is up with the huge torque hump in your stage 2 tune? It's very possible to get a nice flat torque curve from 2X00 to cam roll off from the tuning I have completed.

Cheers,
Rob

[FastBimmerN54]

Snap

[Rob@Cobb]

Originally Posted by PDS

This is NOT a noob "which tune should I get" question

My car is essentially stock and I have no desire to chase horse power, just to pick the low hanging fruit with some easily addable and removable mods.

After searching I have narrowed it down to either the COBB or GIAC. I'm currently leaning towards the COBB due to its data logging capability.

The two questions I'm got are;
- How good have people found the COBB datalogging?
- If I went with the GIAC what are my options for datalogging?

Thanks all and please please done flame me

You will not find superior data logging on the market than the AP in it's current state. I say "current state", because there is more coming. Coming up very soon we will be releasing an update that will add a large amount of data parameter that no one else has seen or used in the market. All from a simple update to your AP that can be performed in the comfort of your own home.

A taste of the data parameters to come would be independent cylinder based timing and timing correction.

Cheers,
Rob

[old account 1]

Originally Posted by Rob@Cobb

Lets face it we all drive BMWs because we love them, however they tend not to be as reliable even in a stock configuration. Having data logging is a great way to make sure your car is always running in tip top shape even when adding a little bit of power.

BMWs have layers of codes which may not present themselves to the owners of the vehicles. Having access to reading codes shows the underlying issues that now can be taken care of. An example would be the high pressure fuel pump issues. Until the pump(s) causes severe pressure loss the ECU does not alert the driver even if there are codes available for the dealer to preemptively replace the pump. We have helped several customers preemptively find problems that may have caused larger issues down the road.

Offering a low power tune which will not expose any issues with the car is an option. We prefer to offer several options of tunes to our customers from aggressive to tame all in the same device. If the customer chooses to run a more aggressive tune exposing a weakness in their car (old plugs, bad coil packs, boost leaks, etc), we help them fix the mechanical issues. If the user wants to run a conservative tune, they are welcome to all without needing to drive to a tuner or ship off their ECU. Heck they have the option to run what they want, when they want.

Maybe you can explain how no one has come close to GIAC with high powered tune as of yet?

Can I ask what is up with the huge torque hump in your stage 2 tune? It's very possible to get a nice flat torque curve from 2X00 to cam roll off from the tuning I have completed.

Cheers,
Rob

Are you asking for tuning tips? You know we would not share our secrets.

No offense here, but the tuning that you have completed does not make that kind of torque gain. We can run massive amounts of boost down low and have done so on some of our beta test cars. However, we are strategic with how we ramp our boost to control overall temperatures (both IATs and EGTs) and drivability. Further, running too much boost, too early down low can cause issues with sustaining pressure in the HPFP under continued heavy load situations. We have had great success utilizing these maps in time attack and other racing realms with literally no issues.

I am all for those who wish to log their vehicles, however, I don't think the merit of "having a logger" should sell a calibration alone.

[cstmx_ryder]

GIAC,

So you guys have a handheld unit that can switch map on the fly? I was under the impression that I have to go to a GIAC authorized dealer to get my flash and maps? Am I missing something?

BTW, will you guys ever consider of having end users flash their own ECU at home like COBB?

TIA

[tibra1]

Originally Posted by cstmx_ryder

GIAC,

So you guys have a handheld unit that can switch map on the fly? I was under the impression that I have to go to a GIAC authorized dealer to get my flash and maps? Am I missing something?

BTW, will you guys ever consider of having end users flash their own ECU at home like COBB?

TIA

Yes I have the handheld switcher..it plugs directly into the OBD port and can switch maps on the fly, even with the car running..as long as you have the maps loaded in your ECU when you purchase the flash.

[cstmx_ryder]

Originally Posted by tibra1

Yes I have the handheld switcher..it plugs directly into the OBD port and can switch maps on the fly, even with the car running..as long as you have the maps loaded in your ECU when you purchase the flash.

Attachment 555201

What are those buttons on the bottom (MTO1-3), and the 'read', 'pump', 'kill'?

TIA

[tibra1]

Originally Posted by cstmx_ryder

What are those buttons on the bottom (MTO1-3), and the 'read', 'pump', 'kill'?

TIA

The MTO 1-3 buttons dont work w the tune for our cars.."read" tells you which map you are on "kill" shuts off the ECU.."valet" allows the car to be driven w no boost.."stock" is about 8.5 psi..(similar to stock).."pump" is on min 91 octance about 16psi..race is for 91 +meth or 100+ octane straight and allows for 17psi plus advance ign timing.

Here is a pdf explaining the handheld switcher

http://www.giacusa.com/downloads/fla...sermanual1.pdf

and the video demonstrated by Mr 5

[Rob@Cobb]

Originally Posted by Austin@GIAC

Are you asking for tuning tips? You know we would not share our secrets.

No offense here, but the tuning that you have completed does not make that kind of torque gain. We can run massive amounts of boost down low and have done so on some of our beta test cars. However, we are strategic with how we ramp our boost to control overall temperatures (both IATs and EGTs) and drivability. Further, running too much boost, too early down low can cause issues with sustaining pressure in the HPFP under continued heavy load situations. We have had great success utilizing these maps in time attack and other racing realms with literally no issues.

I am all for those who wish to log their vehicles, however, I don't think the merit of "having a logger" should sell a calibration alone.

Austin,

I apologize. I can see I was a little forward in my request for substantiation offending you.

Race tunes, an excellent topic. Generally race tunes tend to be unique given odd rule sets, specific fuel quality requirements, etc. Track days and road racing keeps the motor predominately in the high RPMs constantly requiring specific tuning. Serious autocross tunes require as much smooth power in the first three gears as possible and sometimes have odd rules sets such as not being aloud to modify boost. Also requiring specific tuning. The common theme being the tunes don't necessary translate directly to a great street tune. My STi has several tunes in the AP. One for Autocross and 100 octane, one for track days, and a couple for street driving expecting 91 or 93 octane. That way I get the best of all the worlds.

The theme of drivers torque request for road racing/autocross is usually a nice flat and consistent torque curve. Drivers want to know the torque they are about to get will be consistent as they are riding the edge of adhesion pulling out of a corner in every gear in a wide RPM range. For instance the VTEC kick of a S2000 at the limit of adhesion can cause the car to become unstable. The same can be said for a large spike in torque. However each driver is unique in their requests.

Terribly sorry for going off topic.

Cheers,
Rob

[Alpina_B3_Lux]

Originally Posted by Rob@Cobb

Race tunes, an excellent topic. Generally race tunes tend to be unique given odd rule sets, specific fuel quality requirements, etc. Track days and road racing keeps the motor predominately in the high RPMs constantly requiring specific tuning. Serious autocross tunes require as much smooth power in the first three gears as possible and sometimes have odd rules sets such as not being allowed to modify boost.

AFAIK the Time Attack cars run off-the-shelf tunes from GIAC and not custom ones. Which I believe was the point Austin was making - you can use these tunes easily for serious tracking without any need to further customization.

Originally Posted by Rob@Cobb

Also requiring specific tuning. The common theme being the tunes don't necessary translate directly to a great street tune. My STi has several tunes in the AP. One for Autocross and 100 octane, one for track days, and a couple for street driving expecting 91 or 93 octane. That way I get the best of all the worlds.

The theme of drivers torque request for road racing/autocross is usually a nice flat and consistent torque curve. Drivers want to know the torque they are about to get will be consistent as they are riding the edge of adhesion pulling out of a corner in every gear in a wide RPM range. For instance the VTEC kick of a S2000 at the limit of adhesion can cause the car to become unstable. The same can be said for a large spike in torque. However each driver is unique in their requests.

Having extensively tracked my car with the GIAC stage 2 tune, I can confirm that it does meet the needs of a race driver (an amateur one, I admit, but still) quite well. There's no sudden onset of torque, the power delivery is consistent and predictable, which is indeed quite important if you're on a demanding circuit such as the Nürburgring Nordschleife (let alone in the wet...).

However, I don't have any problems driving the stage 2 every day, commuting or otherwise. At least at present I don't see any real need for a specific race tune, except for methanol injection (which is something GIAC offers anyway).

I can certainly see the advantages of customizing a tune for every driver's demand, some tuning firms in Germany also offer specific torque curves at the customer's request. However, I do believe that GIAC has far more experience and knowledge of how to achieve a satisfactory result than I do, which is why I don't really see any necessity for me to tinker with such parameters myself. Still, YMMV as they say.

Alpina_B3_Lux

[PDS]

Originally Posted by Austin@GIAC

I am a bit confused as to why datalogging is such a concern if the tune runs properly out of the box.

You have been very presuming in your responses.

While I love the 335 my biggest disappointment in the car is how fragile it is. A search of the forum shows plenty of threads about temperature problems in particular.

My expectation of a car of this nature is that in stock form I should be able to just change the brake pads and hit the track without fear of the car going into limp mode or something breaking. I would expect accelerated wear of components.

A search of this forum shows plenty of threads about people who could not do this.

So why do I want logging. Because I want to look at the trends of specific parameters when I the car it operating towards its limit so that I can review it and take action if needed.

The logging capability of a tune is just one factor in the selection of a tune, so is stability, so is the dyno graphs, so is...........

[Trojan4evr]

I just have to say people have been running Their N54s in races with GIAC for ages. Ask ER, ASk EAS, Ask Berk Technology, Ask Mr5,... and for Cobb? As I can recall, I've seen a lot of threads that are stating they are having problems after installing Cobb.

I let you reach your own conclusion.

[Kamal]

Not trying to be a Cobb fanboi... but all the "problems" that arise after Cobb installations are related to fuel pumps, injectors, coil packs, or spark plugs that are on the fritz and need to be changed anyways. If you've heard/seen otherwise please enlighten me.

[korben dallas]

Originally Posted by Trojan4evr

I just have to say people have been running Their N54s in races with GIAC for ages. Ask ER, ASk EAS, Ask Berk Technology, Ask Mr5,... and for Cobb? As I can recall, I've seen a lot of threads that are stating they are having problems after installing Cobb.

I let you reach your own conclusion.

Trollin4evr

[Kamal]

To illustrate... here are a couple of recent threads of people using GIAC software and having the same misfires that people get after installing Cobb's AccessPort...

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=529645

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=551241

There's no need to propagate fear of one tune over the other, both GIAC and Cobb have an excellent and quality product. Both will highlight any weaknesses in the system... I decided to go the Cobb route for a number of reasons, but I have nothing but respect for GIAC and their tune.

[Kamal]

Originally Posted by korben dallas

Trollin4evr

[tibra1]

Originally Posted by Kamal

To illustrate... here are a couple of recent threads of people using GIAC software and having the same misfires that people get after installing Cobb's AccessPort...

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=529645

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=551241

There's no need to propagate fear of one tune over the other, both GIAC and Cobb have an excellent and quality product. Both will highlight any weaknesses in the system... I decided to go the Cobb route for a number of reasons, but I have nothing but respect for GIAC and their tune.

Im not sure how these threads you attached relate to the GIAC tune..

The first post the OP had the following codes
30BA 1,2,3 injectors misfiring
DME (Defective diode in DME)

The second he did the injector recall, under normal service update.

Both completely unrelated to the GIAC reflash..so not sure what was the point of posting these?

Contrarily, there are numerous threads where people have had issues directly attributable to running COBB

As I said before..the reason is simple..GIAC is more developed and finalized than COBB..COBB will most likely continue to refine and enhance their tune..but at the moment GIAC is the more refined of the tunes and exhibits no tune related problems.

[XJS]

Originally Posted by Kamal

To illustrate... here are a couple of recent threads of people using GIAC software and having the same misfires that people get after installing Cobb's AccessPort...

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=529645

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=551241

There's no need to propagate fear of one tune over the other, both GIAC and Cobb have an excellent and quality product. Both will highlight any weaknesses in the system... I decided to go the Cobb route for a number of reasons, but I have nothing but respect for GIAC and their tune.

To be fair, your links has nothing to do with this thread, the first is a DME error which is apparantly an issue on certain unlucky 2007 models which leads to the DME to be entirely replaced. One would not need a logger for this circumstance, it needs to be taken to BMW or a shop that can change the DME, which sleepergm that started the thread proceeded on doing.

Your second link has no misfire code, just a rough idle, so a logger wouldn't help there either, so I'm not sure what you're on about on that one.

Now, I'm not saying one shouldn't need a logging tool, I've got a BT cable myself to check for codes so I don't get fooled by BMW every time I have an issue with some sensor in the car (latest issue was a rear level xenon sensor which acted up). Just wanted to clear your references up.

[Mr. Nice]

This thread is getting pretty far off topic, Cobb has great datalogging, GIAC does not. Do you really need datalogging, probably not, but did you really need a BMW, probably not, its nice to have though. GIAC makes a great tune, no doubt, I strongly considered it and have not ruled it out once I am out of warranty. What it really came down to for me was being able to flash back to stock before bringing it in to the dealer, and then flashing back to the tune in the dealership parking lot before driving home.

[bulldog_yyc]

Originally Posted by Rob@Cobb

You will not find superior data logging on the market than the AP in it's current state. I say "current state", because there is more coming. Coming up very soon we will be releasing an update that will add a large amount of data parameter that no one else has seen or used in the market. All from a simple update to your AP that can be performed in the comfort of your own home.

A taste of the data parameters to come would be independent cylinder based timing and timing correction.

Cheers,
Rob

ETA? Stage 2?