[Morpheus]

Originally Posted by Clap135

Think about it this way. More boost is more air, requires more fuel, when it sparks, it gives off more energy correct?

So say you have 8psi, the proper fuel, and you spark it
Now compare that to 14psi, the proper fuel, and you spark it

Which one is going to provide more force on the piston? Obviously number 2
Now say you knock during each of those, which knock event is going give more force? Obviously number 2.

this makes sense, but doesn't include all the variables, such as timing. So you could have more psi but pull enough timing so that 8 and 14 psi made the same power (force) depending on the timing for safety reasons. That being said, since knock doesn't occur during the right time in the combustion cycle, how can it be quantified that the boost difference means the knock is any worse or better based on the psi?

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by InCityPhoto

Is there ANY Data of the "severity" of the knock's at each programed PSI that comes with the JB4?

I dont have a JB4, and JB4 does not have the appropriate logging channels.

Therefore you are asking for the impossible.

A real tune would have the appropriate logging channels.

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by InCityPhoto

Is there ANY Data of the "severity" of the knock's at each programed PSI that comes with the JB4?

Yes, its called physics. Known by all as the ideal gas law. pv=nrt

[Litos]

p.s.
from all the posts i've read (pretty much stopped at post #177)

1) the car knocks under stock boost
2) the car knocks even if running 12-14psi (Cobb and GIAC are the only ones that don't do this)

correct?

[Litos]

i honestly don't care what the answer is, but it's not very good to hear that your car knocks under stock conditions lol

[Forcefed3]

One night after running the JB3 on map 5 no other mods, I could feel the knock. Never got a limp mode.

[Morpheus]

Originally Posted by JPSlick

And did you tune your STI and your SRT-4's to knock on a daily basis? Better yet, was it tuned with control of all functions of the engine? I.e Fuel boost and spark?

I know for DAMN sure that the STi engines cannot handle knock, AT ALL.

I know 2 guys that blew their engines from mickey mouse tuners.

again so why does a bmw tuned motor knock???

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by Morpheus

this makes sense, but doesn't include all the variables, such as timing. So you could have more psi but pull enough timing so that 8 and 14 psi made the same power (force) depending on the timing for safety reasons. That being said, since knock doesn't occur during the right time in the combustion cycle, how can it be quantified that the boost difference means the knock is any worse or better based on the psi?

Yes, thats the whole point of this thread, to NOT make it detonate in the first place. If the timing drops due to the knock sensor, the car knocked. People saying the stock car does it so its fine, are simply in denail cause they assume the severity of the knocks is the same at stock and tuned boost pressures.

[InCityPhoto]

Originally Posted by Clap135

Yes, its called physics. Known by all as the ideal gas law. pv=nrt

This made me laugh.

Originally Posted by Clap135

Yes, thats the whole point of this thread, to NOT make it detonate in the first place. If the timing drops due to the knock sensor, the car knocked. People saying the stock car does it so its fine, are simply in denail cause they assume the severity of the knocks is the same at stock and tuned boost pressures.

Until you are able to show the severity of these "mild knocks" what is your point?

Originally Posted by Morpheus

again so why does a bmw tuned motor knock???

Because Chris/Laloosh/Clap did not tune it, Duh.

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by InCityPhoto

This made me laugh.

Most people laugh when they don't understand something.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by Morpheus

again so why does a bmw tuned motor knock???

As it has been stated OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER...

There are plenty of STOCK CARS that knock.

Knocking at stock boost levels is not as extreme as adding 2x more boost with no PROACTIVE IGNITION CHANGES.

I feel like a broken record.

**

When tuning in the enthusiast world and tuning for power, LIMITING knock becomes priority.

BMW designed a happy medium tune to work for various conditions, keeping in mind there may be infact low severity knocks on their LOW BOOST.

When you tune in the real world, for power, as an enthusiast, looking for power, you tune for power and safety for your SPECIFIC CONDITIONS. Not tuned for the entire world.

[Morpheus]

Originally Posted by JPSlick

Stock Evo's knock too.

The difference is, that knocking on "stock boost" is not as SEVERE, as knocking when you throw in 2x more boost and don't lower the timing set point.

What you have there, again, anyone with tuning knowledge would agree, is playing with fire.

Again, there are motors out there that cannot even handle these "low severity" knocks that are still being preached. So to say, they dont matter, is not true.

Ive said it all along, this community is lucky this engine is stout.

out of curiosity, what AFRs did you tune these STI's and hondas?

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by InCityPhoto

This made me laugh.




Until you are able to show the severity of these "mild knocks" what is your point?

I cannot show you the severity in numbers, however I already prooved to you that the severity increases with boost pressure.

[AltecBX]

Will a bad HPFP affect your AFR?

How much knock is consider safe?

[Brian135i]

Originally Posted by gbreeE90

One night after running the JB3 on map 5 no other mods, I could feel the knock. Never got a limp mode.

Oh really?

[InCityPhoto]

Originally Posted by JPSlick

As it has been stated OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER...

There are plenty of STOCK CARS that knock.

Knocking at stock boost levels is not as extreme as adding 2x more boost with no PROACTIVE IGNITION CHANGES.

I feel like a broken record.

Because you can not produce data showing that the severity of knock increases.

Common sense says it does, But there is no actual data supporting it. There are thousands of JB users driving around that does not seem to have such a horrible result.

Originally Posted by Clap135

I cannot show you the severity in numbers, however I already prooved to you that the severity increases with boost pressure.

With your balloon theory?

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by InCityPhoto

Because you can not produce data showing that the severity of knock increases.

Common sense says it does, But there is no actual data supporting it. There are thousands of JB users driving around that does not seem to have such a horrible result.

I already showed you proof that the severity of knock increases. wtf do you need? Proof that physics works? Look around you, it works.

[InCityPhoto]

Originally Posted by Clap135

I already showed you proof that the severity of knock increases. wtf do you need? Proof that physics works? Look around you, it works.

You have gave a theory, no data.

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by InCityPhoto

Because you can not produce data showing that the severity of knock increases.

Common sense says it does, But there is no actual data supporting it. There are thousands of JB users driving around that does not seem to have such a horrible result.





With your balloon theory?

No, with the amount of pressure in a cylinder.....Nice try

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by InCityPhoto

You have gave a theory, no data.

ideal gas law is a theory? REally?

[InCityPhoto]

Originally Posted by Clap135

No, with the amount of pressure in a cylinder.....Nice try

Show me numbers and actual data pertaining to Knock severity to phisical damage done.

Originally Posted by Clap135

ideal gas law is a theory? REally?

Its all hypothetical

[Forcefed3]

Originally Posted by Brian135i

Oh really?

Yeah, I dont think its very funny that my car was being damaged though.