[Twix]

Originally Posted by 3PedalJake

The "whatever reason" is your problem. You have to extract the 7z file in file explorer before you try to open it in winkfp. If you don't have 7-zip you can download it free open source.

I tried that, gives me an error about file name. I’m now on my 3rd unzipping program.

[3PedalJake]

Originally Posted by Twix

I tried that, gives me an error about file name. I’m now on my 3rd unzipping program.

If 7-zip didn't work the zip program isn't your problem. What is the error specifically?

[Hotter]

And does bimmerlabs 328i->330i tune changes sport display values to 330i? Or does CIC/CCC still think that its 328i?
I have an Arduino which reads CAN BUS messages "0x0A8 - Torque 1 K-CAN (DME1/DDE1)" and uses the formula to calculate kW. Max kW I have seem is ~170. So does not look like 330i.

[rjahl]

Originally Posted by Hotter

And does bimmerlabs 328i->330i tune changes sport display values to 330i? Or does CIC/CCC still think that its 328i?
I have an Arduino which reads CAN BUS messages "0x0A8 - Torque 1 K-CAN (DME1/DDE1)" and uses the formula to calculate kW. Max kW I have seem is ~170. So does not look like 330i.

All torque reporting is done by the DME and calculated using parameters installed in the calibration file.

The DME can report several different toque values. Actual, target, calculated loss, Etc. I would not place much value on it unless you know the exact parameter being used.

Also some tunes alter the calculated torque output by messing with the torque targets and efficiency tables, I don't think Hass makes these changes but the file is a hybrid so only he knows.

I remember one ignition table that really screws up the reported torque values. Car ran good but the calculated torque was off.

If you have an automatic, you should log those values . The transmission uses reported torque to calculate shift behavior.

[Hotter]

Originally Posted by rjahl

All torque reporting is done by the DME and calculated using parameters installed in the calibration file.

The DME can report several different toque values. Actual, target, calculated loss, Etc. I would not place much value on it unless you know the exact parameter being used.

Also some tunes alter the calculated torque output by messing with the torque targets and efficiency tables, I don't think Hass makes these changes but the file is a hybrid so only he knows.

I remember one ignition table that really screws up the reported torque values. Car ran good but the calculated torque was off.

If you have an automatic, you should log those values . The transmission uses reported torque to calculate shift behavior.

Yes, I am logging the data:

Troque @ RPM	Power kW
1,5 nm @ 1701 rpm	0,3
11,5 nm @ 1640 rpm	2,0
21,5 nm @ 1605 rpm	3,6
36 nm @ 1646 rpm	6,2
54 nm @ 1742 rpm	9,9
63,5 nm @ 1854 rpm	12,3
87 nm @ 1839 rpm	16,8
107 nm @ 1739 rpm	19,5
123 nm @ 1800 rpm	23,2
154 nm @ 1903 rpm	30,7
182,5 nm @ 1972 rpm	37,7
221 nm @ 2022 rpm	46,8
242 nm @ 2112 rpm	53,5
271,5 nm @ 2190 rpm	62,3
281,5 nm @ 2279 rpm	67,2
285,5 nm @ 2401 rpm	71,8
286 nm @ 2493 rpm	74,7
288 nm @ 2605 rpm	78,6
294 nm @ 2692 rpm	82,9
302,5 nm @ 2821 rpm	89,4
303 nm @ 2935 rpm	93,1
304,5 nm @ 2996 rpm	95,5
301,5 nm @ 3135 rpm	99,0
297 nm @ 3244 rpm	100,9
292 nm @ 3295 rpm	100,8
292,5 nm @ 3433 rpm	105,2
294,5 nm @ 3540 rpm	109,2
297,5 nm @ 3607 rpm	112,4
299,5 nm @ 3750 rpm	117,6
298 nm @ 3859 rpm	120,4
283 nm @ 3978 rpm	117,9
286,5 nm @ 4019 rpm	120,6
297 nm @ 4141 rpm	128,8
293,5 nm @ 4193 rpm	128,9
293 nm @ 4317 rpm	132,5
289,5 nm @ 4416 rpm	133,9
286,5 nm @ 4520 rpm	135,6
293,5 nm @ 4621 rpm	142,0
297 nm @ 4770 rpm	148,4
295,5 nm @ 4820 rpm	149,2
296,5 nm @ 4925 rpm	152,9
298,5 nm @ 5033 rpm	157,3
298,5 nm @ 5130 rpm	160,4
299,5 nm @ 5232 rpm	164,1
298 nm @ 5342 rpm	166,7
299 nm @ 5437 rpm	170,2
295,5 nm @ 5504 rpm	170,3
289 nm @ 5642 rpm	170,8
290,5 nm @ 5723 rpm	174,1
285 nm @ 5840 rpm	174,3
284 nm @ 5953 rpm	177,1
282 nm @ 6040 rpm	178,4
277 nm @ 6159 rpm	178,7
273 nm @ 6204 rpm	177,4
270,5 nm @ 6319 rpm	179,0
263,5 nm @ 6422 rpm	177,2
262,5 nm @ 6505 rpm	178,8
257,5 nm @ 6594 rpm	177,8
254,5 nm @ 6665 rpm	177,6
251 nm @ 6730 rpm	176,9
250,5 nm @ 6779 rpm	177,8

This is logging after 328i->330i tune and 3SIM. Does it look like 330i?

[hassmaschine]

yeah, you can't really calculate real HP from the internal calculated torque values. They are used to model engine behavior - they aren't necessarily reflective of actual engine torque if you measured it on a dyno.

The CIC/CCC doesn't have anything to do with the DME either, it doesn't know what the tune is at all.

[Hotter]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

The CIC/CCC doesn't have anything to do with the DME either, it doesn't know what the tune is at all.

But as far as I know you can code "Sport display" to CIC which would show Torque and Power. So it must know something about DME. I wonder does it take same values I do and is there a way to correct them for 328i->330i?

But other than that 328i->330i tune is really great. Car has much more torque on low RPMs, much more fun to drive! 330i is much more alive compared to 328i! I have noticed only a bit harsh gear changes sometimes, but maybe my GM1912 transmigration needs oil change? Or it can't handle 330i tune?

[hassmaschine]

It just reads the information that the DME is putting out on the CAN bus. It doesn't do any calculations or measurements itself.

There's not really any point to that either, since it's really not an accurate measure for true engine torque/power. It's basically just a model used to manage the engine.

[bsmoov]

was the mafless tune taken down from the MSV70 downloads?

I was going to install the mafless tune, but I just noticed it's not available to download anymore and I only see the rsa delete and the 330xi tune.

I see that the mafless tune is still available on the MSV80 as when I put it in, I see it's available for my other e91.

Is there a reason for this? Can I still get the mafless tune file for the MSV70? 2006 325xi.

[GtiGyver]

Just did the software and hardware changes to my '09 328xi and it definitely feels more powerful.
Note: I'm using the MAFless tune.

No issues once I cleared all the codes including shadow codes.
Just one thing, is it me or does the car (same as with 328i tuning) have a very slow throttle response?
Compared to other cars I've owned, Jetta Vr6, 135i, E90 M3; I find that this car, no matter the tune (328i stock, 330i w/MAF and w/o MAF) the throttle feels slow to respond.
Once the throttle moves to the intended position, the car is plenty fast, just not quick to respond.

[E92_William]

These cars just seem to be like that. I know colorado.e9x I think was testing out a linear gas pedal thing so that might be a solution to this. When I drive my mothers rav4 it's like night and day difference, that car responds way better to any gas input

[GtiGyver]

I wonder if it's related to the use of valvetronic ?

I can't imagine lifting valves using a worm gear being nearly as fast as throttle plate.

[hassmaschine]

The throttle in my 330i seems fine. Is your car an automatic by chance? I always wondered the difference there, but my friend has a 330xi auto, and it seemed fine to me. I've never actually driven an MSV80 car, but off the line my MSV90 car is pretty slow.

[rjahl]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

The throttle in my 330i seems fine. Is your car an automatic by chance? I always wondered the difference there, but my friend has a 330xi auto, and it seemed fine to me. I've never actually driven an MSV80 car, but off the line my MSV90 car is pretty slow.

Hass, have you looked at the throttle delay values in the calibration files? With the N54s there is a long throttle delay at low speeds. I "fixed" my correction factors and it made a huge difference.

There are different correction factors for autos, DCTs and manuals.

[hassmaschine]

No, I don't recall ever seeing that in MSV70, have you? I don't think it exists, which is why I never noticed a slow throttle. Might only be an MSV80/MSD80 and newer thing. I haven't touched any of that, so it could be why it feels slow. It would be any easy fix if I know what I'm looking for.

The throttle off the line in my X3 is really annoying. nothing, nothing nothing, floored! geeze. It drives like a mid 2000's Hyundai. It's nothing at all like my 330i.

[rjahl]

It's all part of the
SYS_Determination_of_accelerator_pedal_value folder

730 OLS file shown

For me, adjusting the Basic correction values down eliminate a low speed throttle lag.

My problem or complaint was this;

Approaching a right hand turn, I'd slow down to a near stop "California stop" see it was safe to enter the intersection and "toe into the throttle ", I'd get nothing but a delay.

[hassmaschine]

Ah, so it is there! I am familiar with that map, but I always just ignored it. I should be able to find that and adjust it for MSV80. TBH, I never looked at it much before, but I wouldn't be surprised if BMW nerfed it on MSV80. On MSV70, all of the cars I've driven and tuned had really good throttle response, so I never looked deeper.

just on the surface, I'm seeing the AT is about 5-10% less responsive on MSV70 than the MT. It may be even worse on MSV80 - I'll have to look closer.

Do you recall what threshold you used? the lower end on the MT is 1.775, while AT is 1.9 and is always set to a higher value for the whole curve (not sure if it's percentage or time - would need to look at the code).

There's no reason to feel "lag" through an e-throttle. The response time, even of the valvetronic mechanism, is way faster than human perception. Any lag felt by the driver is purely intentional from the manufacturer (why would BMW do that? why does the steering of modern BMWs feel like an old Chevy? that's why).

I'm reminded of a recent "Engineering Explained" video on YouTube, that incorrectly, blames all throttle lag and "rev hang" because of the lag of "modern" (as in 5-10 years old or newer) electronic throttle systems. But that's nonsense - electronic throttle systems have been used since the mid-90s, and even then, it would have been pretty much imperceptible to the driver. It's all in the calibration. You tell me that an E46 M3 CSL has poor throttle response and rev hang because of the electronic throttle.. but I find most EE videos to be mostly bullshit with good presentation, and you could say that for a lot of YouTube.

I'd be happy to update the tunes with these adjusted, if it makes a difference. I might try it on my own car, I haven't touched the tune in a couple years, lol.

[hassmaschine]

Well, I couldn't leave that thought - Here's MSV70 and MSV80.
They are identical, but the auto definitely gets the slower response:



But here's MSS70 (S54 Z4M). I don't think these ever came with AT (there must have been SMG/amt, or they wouldn't have touched it), but the MT response is definitely quickest. I'd like to try that setting for sure..


Note the end of the curve on MSS70 has a ratio of 1 instead of reducing it at all. I bet this is mostly meant to make starting off easier.

Oh, there's also a 3D map (it's loaded before the 2D curve, but they both feed into PV_AV). It's identical on all versions (MSV70, MSV80, MSS70).

[aphael]

The throttle response at low rpms for my 07 328i is really inconsistent and not responsive atleast for me under 3000 rpms. It gets better as rpms are higher. Blipping the throttle, sometimes you mash to the floor and back up and it only goes up 500 or so rpms. I am on msv80, any way to fix that? I think the mafless tune did help a bit as well. Btw, is it fine to run the mafless tune with the headers?

[hassmaschine]

Watch your fuel trims. It can be done, but the O2 feedback really needs to be adjusted for that.

[GtiGyver]

Originally Posted by aphael

The throttle response at low rpms for my 07 328i is really inconsistent and not responsive atleast for me under 3000 rpms. It gets better as rpms are higher. Blipping the throttle, sometimes you mash to the floor and back up and it only goes up 500 or so rpms. I am on msv80, any way to fix that? I think the mafless tune did help a bit as well. Btw, is it fine to run the mafless tune with the headers?

My car is also manual, with an MSV80 DME. The throttle response is just no comparison to other cars I've driven, manual or otherwise.
Again, not saying the car is slow, but like aphael said, blipping the throttle does almost nothing its so slow.
Feels almost as if the flywheel was 4x heavier than any other car.

[rjahl]

Hass,

I only modified the one map.



IP_FAC_VS_PV_bas_cor_tct


There are others who migrated all of the M3 settings to the N54. I have not testing anything else.