[Belarus]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

Nothing but the normal insults out of you. I've never claimed to be a tuner but Terry has tuned plenty of forced induction applications prior to the N54. Including the first to tune a turbo LT1 motor using a standalone system back in 1997. Around 630whp on 9.8:1 compression with mostly pump gas if I remember the story.

As I said looking at the short term drops is the only method currently viable for determining how close to the knock threshold you are. Fewer drops are probably better but its an inherently reactive method. Now that BMS has full CAN they're exploring a few new options. Among them reading the knock sensors directly to catch occurrences sooner in the cycle. Also turns out there are a few CAN commands that influence the OEM timing set points directly. Things are going to get interesting soon.

Mike

Mike a friendly advise don't put yourself in that situation, with the input that are just ridiculous even to some one who has little tuning experience but common sense, which will scream.

[Belarus]

Originally Posted by JPSlick

We can complain or remark about the bickering, but this is what makes our tunes better... so its good for us at the end of the day.

As I've already stated before.... healthy competition debate, from which we all as end customers learn & benefit. Competition exposing each others Pros & Cons through debate in front of the public, leads them to continuously improve on existing products that we only gain from

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

Nothing but the normal insults out of you.

Then stop saying ridiculous things that have no basis in reality. BMS has scammed thousands of users on the subject of timing control via CPS offsetting. First, they claimed that it didn't work when they were hocking the jb1/jb2.

Then with the JB3, Terry promised that CPS offsetting was a new feature. For months, it was in their promotional material. It was discussed on their forum by Terry. I have screen shots saved of Terry descibing some JB3 maps having "more or less" CPS than other JB3 maps.

Yet, a year later, when scalbert tested the jb3 on the bench, it had no such feature. And more, the traces on the pcb board were jumped between Crank sensor in and Crank sensor out. Which means that the Crank sensor was a READ-ONLY signal (for RPM input). So it could have simply been T'd into like IAT and TPS. Yet Terry had a Crank in AND a Crank out wire in the harness to give the illusion of it modifying the signal.

When confronted with this deciet, BMS immediately pointed out that CPS offsetting was suddently and quietly eliminated because of a "better method" that they will keep secret. And that they simply forgot to update the promotional material. Of course, that dosen't expain Terry's comments of CPS offset tuning on his forum. BMS continued to insist that CPS offsetting didn't work afterall and that their "secret" method (something that can't be measured, illustrated or replicated on any testing bench) worked much better.

Of course, BMS said that the Jb3 can indeed CPS offset (if they wanted it to) but it was just turned off due to the better secret method of timing control. Then over time, it was obvious to all that there is no "secret method" of timing control (even admitted by BMS). And that the jb3 relied completely on the DME for knock control. Surprise!

And now, 2 years later, BMS is developing a completely new JB4 that will have CPS offsetting, appropriate hardware, proper design, etc,.. So CPS is now a useful feature.

So which begs the question, if the Jb3 is capable of CPS offsetting, and that CPS offsetting is a useful feature to have, WHY don't they just enable it? Should be just a simple firmware/map/harness update, no?

Or is it because the Jb3 NEVER had the ability to CPS offset due to processor/hardware limitations. Which is why you wont even see it with even the upcoming G4 jb3.

And that, my friends, is a scam. A rather lucrative one. Until, of course, the lies catch up with you and you are left with less credibility than the Shamwow guy.

Shiv

[jaco]

I enjoy all of Shiv's knowlege... it's the reason why my 335 will have Procede in the spring.

[shifterboy45]

i would recommend a trip to Barnes&Noble to pick up --

MAXIMUM BOOST - DESIGNING, TESTING, AND INSTALLING TURBOCHARGER SYSTEMS.

by Corky Bell -- it will get you aquainted with the principles and practices

getting a turbo car and playing with it is fine, if you understand what to look for and how dynamics change radically when you decided to up the boost and make more power.

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by shifterboy45

i would recommend a trip to Barnes&Noble to pick up --

MAXIMUM BOOST - DESIGNING, TESTING, AND INSTALLING TURBOCHARGER SYSTEMS.

by Corky Bell -- it will get you aquainted with the principles and practices

getting a turbo car and playing with it is fine, if you understand what to look for and how dynamics change radically when you decided to up the boost and make more power.

I have had that book for nearly 15 years and it is still a reference I use from time to time.

[OpenFlash]

Funny you guys mention Maximum Boost. I've known Corky and his family for nearly 20 year. Stayed at his house in San Antonio. Spent time at his shops. He even contracted me, a few years ago, to do the baseline calibration on this Miata turbo kits (his main product line). He's a great guy and very knowledgeable. I'm happy to see his book become the reference for common sense turbosystem tuning and design

It really is a must-read for every enthusiast. Especially the chapters on knock control and EFI tuning.

I'll ask him to contribute to this thread and maybe this entire forum.

shiv

[shifterboy45]

Originally Posted by scalbert

I have had that book for nearly 15 years and it is still a reference I use from time to time.

if not for the knowledge of those who have passed before us....

good show!!

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Yet, a year later, when scalbert tested the jb3 on the bench, it had no such feature. And more, the traces on the pcb board were jumped between Crank sensor in and Crank sensor out. Which means that the Crank sensor was a READ-ONLY signal (for RPM input).

Commenting mainly on my reference and not in direct reply to Shiv.

I have been less vocal for the last year or so mainly due to business commitments, etc. But partially due to the fact that most here would rather bury their head in the sand and not monitor nor realize what they are doing with their vehicles. In other words, if no one was going to listen, why talk?

But this thread has read of ignorance as well as continued denial about what should and should not be done. I do agree the onus is on the owner to be responsible. Concurrently, you do not hand a loaded weapon over to a child and expect pleasant results. The how’s and whys are not known but there is a glimpse as to the limits of what the DME can do. For those that are leasing, running an aggressive tune and state such that they don't care, I say you are pretty pathetic and a low life. You are essentially destroying others property. For those others who are planning to maintain their vehicle and have accepted what has been conveyed to them, you still have time to correct past decisions.

Point being, yes, one owner pushed it hard and is paying dearly. But it is just the stepping stone to what we will most likely see more of in the near future as more miles are put on these vehicles. Less aggressive boost levels coupled with the same tune type but with more miles will eventually see the same fate. This is just a precursor to what we will see down the road. But don't take this as a doomsday statement. It will still be a small minority. But as I have stated in the past, the more the tiny hammers pound the inside of your engine, the sooner it will likely fail. If you decrease the tiny hammer frequency (the number of times you get minor knock) you will have a happier engine for longer.

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by shifterboy45

if not for the knowledge of those who have passed before us....

good show!!

I agree...

And I also have his book on supercharging as well. But that is a less read piece.

Mainly, I like to reference the formulas and graphs, etc. For instance, back many years ago, I would have never thoughts that most rod failures occur on the exhaust stroke of said cylinder. But once described and graphed, it made perfect sense.

[cn555ic]

Originally Posted by scalbert

Commenting mainly on my reference and not in direct reply to Shiv.

I have been less vocal for the last year or so mainly due to business commitments, etc. But partially due to the fact that most here would rather bury their head in the sand and not monitor nor realize what they are doing with their vehicles. In other words, if no one was going to listen, why talk?

But this thread has read of ignorance as well as continued denial about what should and should not be done. I do agree the onus is on the owner to be responsible. Concurrently, you do not hand a loaded weapon over to a child and expect pleasant results. The how’s and whys are not known but there is a glimpse as to the limits of what the DME can do. For those that are leasing, running an aggressive tune and state such that they don't care, I say you are pretty pathetic and a low life. You are essentially destroying others property. For those others who are planning to maintain their vehicle and have accepted what has been conveyed to them, you still have time to correct past decisions.

Point being, yes, one owner pushed it hard and is paying dearly. But it is just the stepping stone to what we will most likely see more of in the near future as more miles are put on these vehicles. Less aggressive boost levels coupled with the same tune type but with more miles will eventually see the same fate. This is just a precursor to what we will see down the road. But don't take this as a doomsday statement. It will still be a small minority. But as I have stated in the past, the more the tiny hammers pound the inside of your engine, the sooner it will likely fail. If you decrease the tiny hammer frequency (the number of times you get minor knock) you will have a happier engine for longer.

I think people are taking note of this since there are so many threads on the for sale threads open these days, but with every sale there is more ignorant people that will buy it and not knowing about it since they are new to the tuning of the N54...

[Sniz]

Originally Posted by shifterboy45

i would recommend a trip to Barnes&Noble to pick up --

MAXIMUM BOOST - DESIGNING, TESTING, AND INSTALLING TURBOCHARGER SYSTEMS.

by Corky Bell -- it will get you aquainted with the principles and practices

getting a turbo car and playing with it is fine, if you understand what to look for and how dynamics change radically when you decided to up the boost and make more power.

I'll have to order that, certaily cant hurt considering i'm running a turbo'd M3 w 93k miles on it.

I"ll pick Terry up a copy as well.

[Sniz]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Funny you guys mention Maximum Boost. I've known Corky and his family for nearly 20 year. Stayed at his house in San Antonio. Spent time at his shops. He even contracted me, a few years ago, to do the baseline calibration on this Miata turbo kits (his main product line). He's a great guy and very knowledgeable. I'm happy to see his book become the reference for common sense turbosystem tuning and design

It really is a must-read for every enthusiast. Especially the chapters on knock control and EFI tuning.

I'll ask him to contribute to this thread and maybe this entire forum.shiv

That would be fantastic.

maybe he can design a modular exhaust manifold so people can use different turbo's as well. Its ridiculous that no one has designed a cast set yet.

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by Sniz

maybe he can design a modular exhaust manifold so people can use different turbo's as well. Its ridiculous that on one has designed one yet.

Gerhard Schruf, Corky Bell's partner in Bell Intercooler's, helped with my Acura J32A2 manifold/IC project many years ago. Nice people and always willing to talk with us common folks.

http://www.bellintercoolers.com/pages/about.html

And what I designed and built with Gerhard's input.

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by Sniz

I'll have to order that, certaily cant hurt considering i'm running a turbo'd M3 w 93k miles on it.

I"ll pick Terry up a copy as well.

Good book, but that second part is evil.

[Sniz]

Originally Posted by scalbert

Gerhard Schruf, Corky Bell's partner in Bell Intercooler's, helped with my Acura J32A2 manifold/IC project many years ago. Nice people and always willing to talk with us common folks.

http://www.bellintercoolers.com/pages/about.html

And what I designed and built with Gerhard's input.

twinscrew on an Acura TL?

how was the torque steer w that much instant TQ?

[Sniz]

Originally Posted by scalbert

Good book, but that second part is evil.

ahh im just pokin fun

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by Sniz

twinscrew on an Acura TL?

how was the torque steer w that much instant TQ?

Roots style blower from Comptech which was just the Eaton MP62.

Mine was a CL-S 6MT so torque steer wasn't too bad with the helical LSD on the front. But it still had the issues of being FWD which were inescapable.

I am sure it would pull on many tuned 335i's at speed with the lower weight and shorter gearing. Just a great engine in a mediocre chassis. Granted, it handled great for being FWD but still...

[DefactoM6]

Originally Posted by shifterboy45

i would recommend a trip to Barnes&Noble to pick up --

MAXIMUM BOOST - DESIGNING, TESTING, AND INSTALLING TURBOCHARGER SYSTEMS.

by Corky Bell -- it will get you aquainted with the principles and practices

getting a turbo car and playing with it is fine, if you understand what to look for and how dynamics change radically when you decided to up the boost and make more power.

+1000. When my GF and I were cleaning out my bookshelves and she questioned whether or not I needed it anymore...I didn't open my mouth, but based on the wince on her face, I guess I had a visceral reaction to the suggestion that I give up that book. I shudder to think what would've happened to my cars (particularly my M3) if I didn't have that book. Probably would've had a mechtech kit on it.

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Funny you guys mention Maximum Boost. I've known Corky and his family for nearly 20 year. Stayed at his house in San Antonio. Spent time at his shops. He even contracted me, a few years ago, to do the baseline calibration on this Miata turbo kits (his main product line). He's a great guy and very knowledgeable. I'm happy to see his book become the reference for common sense turbosystem tuning and design

It really is a must-read for every enthusiast. Especially the chapters on knock control and EFI tuning.

I'll ask him to contribute to this thread and maybe this entire forum.

shiv

It would be an honor and privilege (and a much needed sound source of knowledge and technical discussion) to have him around here. Like I said, it served me really well as I began venturing into the world of turbo cars by myself.

[lawdude]

I predict there is no way corky is going to stroll through this mine field.

[cn555ic]

Originally Posted by lawdude

I predict there is no way corky is going to stroll through this mine field.

Thats if someones pays him not to appear! lol

[vasillalov]

Clickety Click, Click:

Maximum Boost