[CJ///M]

Originally Posted by P1et

I'm not a conspiracy theorist by any stretch of the imagination, but I never could wrap my head around the plane that crashed into the Pentagon. For a plane that large, it didn't do much damage and there didn't appear to be any plane parts in any of the photos that were published for the public.

Am I the only one?

I agree. Just look at Building 7 and explain to me how that collapsed.

[ASBSECU E93]

fecurtis -

[fecurtis]

Oh boy, the crazy conspiracy theorists are coming out of the woodwork.

[Mr Tonka]

You mean self proclaimed structural engineers with years of experience testing different items colliding with buildings? Yeah, they are out there and they have all the answers.

Needless to say, strange things can happen when an all aluminum jet, full of combustibles collides with a multilayer steel reinforced concrete structure. (pentagon)

From my 2013 Christmas visit.

[P1]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

Oh boy, the crazy conspiracy theorists are coming out of the woodwork.

I love this. People like myself wonder about something and are immediately labeled as conspiracy theorists.

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by P1et

I love this. People like myself wonder about something and are immediately labeled as conspiracy theorists.

When planes hit a massive concrete barrier, it doesn't leave a cookie cutter outline of said plane like in cartoons. If I recall correctly, when it was flying into the Pentagon, it didn't hit it head on, I think a wing hit the ground first ripping it off and the other was ripped off on impact with Ring E.

Remember the Pentagon is made with reinforced concrete.

[zx10guy]

http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.o...ation3694.aspx

"In 1990, Congress approved a major renovation plan to upgrade the Pentagon’s deteriorating, asbestos-filled building systems in order to meet modern health, fire and life safety codes, and provide reliable electrical, air conditioning and ventilation services.

The plan calls for the Pentagon’s five wedges, including the first to the fifth floors, to be renovated one at a time. Work on the first wedge had just been completed, and 2,600 employees had moved back into their offices, when the hijacked airliner struck, Eaton explained.

Many of the improvements saved lives, he said. As part of the renovation, the windows along the E and A Rings of Wedge 1—those opening to the building’s exterior and inner courtyard—were made of blast-resistant material. “These windows are an inch and a half thick,” he said. “Each pane weighs 500 pounds. An entire window weighs a ton. During 9/11, these windows saved thousands of lives.”

Renovation of Wedge 1 also included steel beams that run, from top to bottom to strengthen building support, Eaton said. In addition, he noted, Kevlar panels were inserted between the windows to catch fragments from explosions.

While these measures apparently did reduce casualties, the attack devastated Wedge 1. Four days after the attack, the Defense Department announced that Hensel Phelps Construction Co., of Chantilly, Va., was awarded a contract, initially worth $145 million, to rebuild Wedge 1 and to continue renovating the remainder of the Pentagon. If all of the contract’s options are exercised, the contract has a potential value of up to $758 million, plus inflation, and will result in the renovation of approximately four million square feet of building space."

[P1]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

When planes hit a massive concrete barrier, it doesn't leave a cookie cutter outline of said plane like in cartoons. If I recall correctly, when it was flying into the Pentagon, it didn't hit it head on, I think a wing hit the ground first ripping it off and the other was ripped off on impact with Ring E.

Remember the Pentagon is made with reinforced concrete.

There must be a million CCTV cameras watching the Pentagon, both outside and inside. Why is there only one grainy, horribly quality video released to the public that doesn't even show the plane?

Again, just asking questions here.

[C5driver]

Originally Posted by P1et

There must be a million CCTV cameras watching the Pentagon, both outside and inside. Why is there only one grainy, horribly quality video released to the public that doesn't even show the plane?

Again, just asking questions here.

I can't speak to the number of CCTV's available at that time, but the quality and quantity of video surveillance tech 14 years ago is no where near what we're accustomed to now.

[V1.47fan]

[ASBSECU E93]

P1et - so what is your REAL question here...?

[pgviper]

7th grade...
2nd period health class...

Loud speaker comes on and tells us a small passenger plane crashed into the WTC.

We finished the day at school and as I walked off my bus, I saw two F-16's fly overhead. Although being in middle school and uninformed by the schools administration, I understood something catastrophic must have happened. Walked into the kitchen where my parents were watching the days events is when the horror of what actually happened hit me.

My neighbor slept through his alarm and is alive today because of it...

My other neighbor spent years working in ground zero and now has severe lung and breathing problems...

Countless friends with family members who perished that day... Each year I listened to the speeches of those brave enough to speak of how the events on 9/11 affected their families and ultimately their lives.

My wife's uncle was the only one in his crew to make it out of the towers simply because intuition told him to take the stairs from the 90 something floor instead of the elevator...

The stories go on and on and for all who were alive during this event, the consequences have now become part of who we are.

RIP to those Americans and innocents who perished, burn in hell to those who caused this and God Bless America.

[P1]

Originally Posted by ASBSECU E93

P1et - so what is your REAL question here...?

Why is there no footage anywhere of a plane hitting the Pentagon?

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by P1et

There must be a million CCTV cameras watching the Pentagon, both outside and inside. Why is there only one grainy, horribly quality video released to the public that doesn't even show the plane?

Again, just asking questions here.

You know what the refresh rate of a CCTV camera is? Especially one from 14 years ago. It's not going to do a great job at catching a plane traveling at 300 mph - 500 mph.

Plus I can see why they wouldn't bother releasing videos of the interior to the public. It's the Pentagon.

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by P1et

Why is there no footage anywhere of a plane hitting the Pentagon?

We just answered that question. Anything else crazy conspiracy theorist?

Do we have to explain how jet fuel fires were able to melt steel beams while we're here?

I usually find it easier to debunk this stupid crap with an even simpler form of common sense outside of the stuff we just explicitly outlined.

If a plane didn't hit the Pentagon 14 years ago, then what the fuck happened to AA Flight 77? It took off from Dulles International Airport, it had people on it, and all 60+ passengers and crew are reported dead.

So if a plane didn't hit the Pentagon, where's everyone on AA Flight 77?

Also, from where the plane hit, you'd be able to see it from I-395, Columbia Pike, and Washington Blvd in Arlington and all of those roads are busy roads. Eye witness reports do report seeing an airplane, especially since it was around the tail end of rush hour (http://www.theguardian.com/world/200...ronmensfashion).

There was worse to come. A little before 9.30am, reports emerged that another plane had been hijacked. Within 10 minutes, a medium-sized passenger plane flew in low over Arlington and the Navy Annexe in Washington DC and plunged into the Pentagon's south-west face, throwing up a huge fireball.

Omar Campo, a Salvadorean, was cutting the grass on the other side of the road when the plane flew over his head.

"It was a passenger plane. I think an American Airways plane," Mr Campo said. "I was cutting the grass and it came in screaming over my head. I felt the impact. The whole ground shook and the whole area was full of fire. I could never imagine I would see anything like that here."

Afework Hagos, a computer programmer, was on his way to work but stuck in a traffic jam near the Pentagon when the plane flew over. "There was a huge screaming noise and I got out of the car as the plane came over. Everybody was running away in different directions. It was tilting its wings up and down like it was trying to balance. It hit some lampposts on the way in."

A pilot who saw the impact, Tim Timmerman, said it had been an American Airways 757. "It added power on its way in," he said. "The nose hit, and the wings came forward and it went up in a fireball."

The conspiracy nonsense has always amused me.

[V1.47fan]

Originally Posted by pgviper

7th grade...
2nd period health class...

Loud speaker comes on and tells us a small passenger plane crashed into the WTC.

We finished the day at school and as I walked off my bus, I saw two F-16's fly overhead. Although being in middle school and uninformed by the schools administration, I understood something catastrophic must have happened. Walked into the kitchen where my parents were watching the days events is when the horror of what actually happened hit me.

My neighbor slept through his alarm and is alive today because of it...

My other neighbor spent years working in ground zero and now has severe lung and breathing problems...

Countless friends with family members who perished that day... Each year I listened to the speeches of those brave enough to speak of how the events on 9/11 affected their families and ultimately their lives.

My wife's uncle was the only one in his crew to make it out of the towers simply because intuition told him to take the stairs from the 90 something floor instead of the elevator...

The stories go on and on and for all who were alive during this event, the consequences have now become part of who we are.

RIP to those Americans and innocents who perished, burn in hell to those who caused this and God Bless America.

Sorry to hear that, we were all devastated on that day and you guys close to ground zero even more.

I was in Omaha NE, it was a clear blue sky. I couldn't believe what I was hearing on the radio.
All civilian aircrafts were grounded. That day seemed surreal.

[P1]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

We just answered that question. Anything else crazy conspiracy theorist?

Do we have to explain how jet fuel fires were able to melt steel beams while we're here?

I usually find it easier to debunk this stupid crap with an even simpler form of common sense outside of the stuff we just explicitly outlined.

If a plane didn't hit the Pentagon 14 years ago, then what the fuck happened to AA Flight 77? It took off from Dulles International Airport, it had people on it, and all 60+ passengers and crew are reported dead.

So if a plane didn't hit the Pentagon, where's everyone on AA Flight 77?

Also, from where the plane hit, you'd be able to see it from I-395, Columbia Pike, and Washington Blvd in Arlington and all of those roads are busy roads. Eye witness reports do report seeing an airplane, especially since it was around the tail end of rush hour (http://www.theguardian.com/world/200...ronmensfashion).



The conspiracy nonsense has always amused me.

You're getting very upset here so I'm not sure if it's even worth discussing any further. Calling me a conspiracy theorist is laughable, especially since that means I should probably have an alternative scenario of what supposedly really happened. I don't have this.

For example, you mention that the plane lost a wing after hitting the ground. Where is this wing? I never saw a picture of it.

You would think the government would try and give as much information, photos and videos as possible to prevent people like myself from asking questions. Right?

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by P1et

You're getting very upset here so I'm not sure if it's even worth discussing any further. Calling me a conspiracy theorist is laughable, especially since that means I should probably have an alternative scenario of what supposedly really happened. I don't have this.

It's probably the most accurate way to describe your questions, since they're admittedly very silly. I'm not upset at all, just find it so humorous that people can be this dense over something so seemingly simple, a plane hit a building.

For example, you mention that the plane lost a wing after hitting the ground. Where is this wing? I never saw a picture of it.

Another silly question. This is akin to a car slamming into a concrete wall at 500 mph then saying "WHERE'S THE CAR?!", then denying it ever happened. Sounds pretty silly doesn't it? There's some photos of various debris, I posted one that's floating around.

You would think the government would try and give as much information, photos and videos as possible to prevent people like myself from asking questions. Right?

No, the Pentagon is a classified facility. If you're ever here, walk around the Pentagon and snap photos of it from the outside...see how long it takes for Pentagon Police to walk up to you and start asking you questions. I don't question whether or not the CIA exists although the government doesn't bother showing a ton of pictures of it. Besides, they have better things to do than to answer such ridiculous questions. I normally would too, but I'm bored on a Friday.

Either way, in typical conspiracy theorist fashion, despite the fact I've answered all of your questions adequately and showed you photos, you still won't believe anything common sense dictates so carry on.

[pgviper]

Originally Posted by P1et

You're getting very upset here so I'm not sure if it's even worth discussing any further. Calling me a conspiracy theorist is laughable, especially since that means I should probably have an alternative scenario of what supposedly really happened. I don't have this.

For example, you mention that the plane lost a wing after hitting the ground. Where is this wing? I never saw a picture of it.

You would think the government would try and give as much information, photos and videos as possible to prevent people like myself from asking questions. Right?

I don't think the government cares about your opinion or presenting the details of that day to us especially regarding the Pentagon.

Anything that you think you know really is just what they decided to tell you. This is one of those situations where you just have to let it be because even if you "find" the answer... who is to say it is even factual...

[GraphiteBrawler]

As a Born and Bred New Yorker (66th and 2nd, the Manhattan House) I'd personally appreciate it if we can just keep the rumor mill off this post. How it happened, or why it happend, honestly don't matter to many of us that live there anymore. Just that it DID happen. I prefer to remember the people I knew, and think of what we stood for, than why it happened.

I'm certainly no Admin or Moderator, it's just a personal request from someone who lost friends that day. Feel free to ignore.

I remember I was 2 blocks away on Park Place, and less than a week after it all went down, the Outdoor shop I was working at was open, and the Boxing Gym was back at it. No Internet, no Electricity. That's my New York. The tourists can have Times Square and Nobu.

[P1]

Originally Posted by pgviper

I don't think the government cares about your opinion or presenting the details of that day to us especially regarding the Pentagon.

Anything that you think you know really is just what they decided to tell you. This is one of those situations where you just have to let it be because even if you "find" the answer... who is to say it is even factual...

I agree with you on that one. Good point.

[F30lolz]

I knew an acquaintance who lost his father AND brother in one of the towers. He was attending SUNY Albany at the time and everyday he drove about an hour each way from Albany to Newburgh NY to be with his mother. I couldn't even imagine what he went through.