[e90AW335i]

Originally Posted by JNic335i

Hmm... I was told by two people that you should flip the switch when the car is off.....

I used to do it all the time with no problem. The point of the JBX was to be able to tune it on the fly....

[RiXst3r]

Originally Posted by JNic335i

Rick, Do you know if you will be able to change maps as the car is running? or would you have to turn the car off. Like i'm doing with the JB2R?

On the JB2 variants, its suggested to do this with the car off, but people have had success doing it with the car on as well.

now, with the JB3, it will be designed to work ON THE FLY! no shutting off the engine, just push a button (you can label it "ludicrous speed" if you want)

[Gen_E92]

I know $795 is a bargain for PnP piggy, but how do you think it'll fare against the Shark Injector (around $500 I think?) and they should be coming out around the same time...

[bmwturbopower]

Originally Posted by Gen_E92

I know $795 is a bargain for PnP piggy, but how do you think it'll fare against the Shark Injector (around $500 I think?) and they should be coming out around the same time...

I would like to know that as well. Many people are talking about tuning with the Shark

[RiXst3r]

Originally Posted by JNic335i

I would like to know that as well. Many people are talking about tuning with the Shark

I really think v81 is going to hurt flashes more than piggies... which have already found a workaround. i hope they crack it, but it might be much longer than we all think.

[uberschnell]

I believe in time, when the flash is shown to be just as capable of controlling the ecu as a piggy, hardware advantages will be a thing of the past and tuners will build or break their reputation strictly on their skill and knowledge when it comes to tuning the N54.

[bonsai]

I wouldn't want to mess around with boost maps and fuel trims on my own with the shark injector - I'm too scared of breaking something. At $549, the JB3 is going to be a bargain.

[Choolgooz]

Was on the fence about getting the V3 ( price), if the Dynos/reviews are as expected ill jump on the Juicebox wagon. Getting the BMS intake soon too, that phhst sound is hot.

[RiXst3r]

Originally Posted by Choolgooz

Was on the fence about getting the V3 ( price), if the Dynos/reviews are as expected ill jump on the Juicebox wagon. Getting the BMS intake soon too, that phhst sound is hot.

Terry has purchased a v81 car for testing, so we should be seeing dynos soon. He will have a v80 pre-29.2 335 and a v81 135 for development. No need to test on customer cars...

-Rick

[tomtom]

this seems similar to the V3 in terms of PnP and features...
Yet it's less than half the cost...am I missing something?

I hope this isn't perceived as thread jacking, but can something exlain what the how these products differ?

I have the AA processor but it seems that it is being left behind in terms of development and new functionality.

[jcarlucci1]

Originally Posted by tomtom

this seems similar to the V3 in terms of PnP and features...
Yet it's less than half the cost...am I missing something?

I hope this isn't perceived as thread jacking, but can something exlain what the how these products differ?

I have the AA processor but it seems that it is being left behind in terms of development and new functionality.

V3 and JB3 have basically the same functions, Terry's business model is just different..he is looking to attract more customers at a lower price point. If you look around, you can see the resale values on procedes are quite a bit lower than what they cost new..In my opinion it is very overpriced. And as for AA, they seem to have no interest at all in updating their products, or giving the customer what they want(new features, more power, etc.)

[lawdude]

It is my unlearned opinion that the only way to tell how similar the two devices really are is have Shiv and Terry to come together amicably and enlighten us not only what each device does, but how they do it. Highly unlikely that will ever happen.

My observation is that, rather than innovate, Terry reacts to what Shiv does by incorporating the same or similar features at a lower price point. If Shiv fell off the face of the planet, Terry's products would stagnate.

Shiv's customer base likes to have a product that is on the cutting edge.

Lack of innovation notwithstanding, Terry maintains his customer base because of his customer service and his ability to reverse engineer.

[A418t81]

Originally Posted by lawdude

It is my unlearned opinion that the only way to tell how similar the two devices really are is have Shiv and Terry to come together amicably and enlighten us not only what each device does, but how they do it. Highly unlikely that will ever happen.

My observation is that, rather than innovate, Terry reacts to what Shiv does by incorporating the same or similar features at a lower price point. If Shiv fell off the face of the planet, Terry's products would stagnate.

Shiv's customer base likes to have a product that is on the cutting edge.

Lack of innovation notwithstanding, Terry maintains his customer base because of his customer service and his ability to reverse engineer.

Well at least you got one point correct. Terry and I were having discussions about raising fuel pressure via the relieve valve to add headroom to the fuel system months before the V81/29.2/V3 bomb hit. Also, DI is nothing new in the automotive world, other piggybacks in other markets also control fuel pressure in a similar fashion. Its nothing new or revolutionary. Terry also implements a different boost strategy than Shiv does, and again, ANY decent boost control system will tie in TPS, etc. Again, Shiv didn't invent any of the concepts of boost control.

[RiXst3r]

My 2c... yes Terry follows market trends, but certain things were in play on terry's car, like fuel pressure control, well before it was announced or used in the other tunes... Terry was the first to post about using fuel presure to overcome v81. As mentioned above, he also is handling solenoid control in a totally new way.

Terry designed the JB3 hardware, firmware, and circuits from the ground up... none of this was copied, and none of it was just re-using products already on the market, like interceptors, xedes, wireles 12v remote map swithers from ebay, etc... This is how he keeps costs down... he develops his own PCBs, circuits, etc.

Look at the any product market... a set of features come into play, and other manufacturers are forced to implement them to stay competitive. And also it gives them a chance to improve on it. Competition is a very good thing for us as customers.

-Rick

[tomtom]

so what's Terry's background/training (computer engineering?) as well as Shiv? I am curious how long both have been tuning cars and especially BMWs.
I heard they both don't do mechanical testing of the cars.

[sflgator]

Originally Posted by tomtom

so what's Terry's background/training (computer engineering?) as well as Shiv? I am curious how long both have been tuning cars and especially BMWs.
I heard they both don't do mechanical testing of the cars.

Terry just began his tuning business ~ 6 months ago and Shiv has been tuning F/I cars (Mitsu Evo/Subie Sti, and now BMW and Porsche) for > 7 years I believe. Shiv is also an electrical and/or computer engineer as well.

I will not start a tuning war as we've seen enough of them on this Forum in the past, but lets just say that Shiv and Terry have somewhat different experience with different approaches to the hardware/software tuning of the 335i.

[A418t81]

Originally Posted by sflgator

Terry just began his tuning business ~ 6 months ago and Shiv has been tuning F/I cars (Mitsu Evo/Subie Sti, and now BMW and Porsche) for > 7 years I believe. Shiv is also an electrical and/or computer engineer as well.

I will not start a tuning war as we've seen enough of them on this Forum in the past, but lets just say that Shiv and Terry have somewhat different experience with different approaches to the hardware/software tuning of the 335i.

Terry has been in "business" with BMWs for less than a year, but has been tuning high horsepower blown V8s and the like for years. Also, Terry is a degreed software engineer, I don't believe I have ever actually seen Shiv comment on what he's degreed in, though the flock will assure you otherwise.

[RiXst3r]

Well guys, here is what I know....

Terry has a BSCS degree From SDSU and 12 years of automotive tuning, programming, and engineering experience.

Also worth noting, they have an EE on staff, and Jonathan, Terry's partner, also has around 8 years of tuning experience.

[ArmyBimmerDude]

Come on guys. Don't ruin this thread with yet another war of words.

When it comes out, we'll see what it can really do, if there are any issues, etc.

Am I correct in saying its far more complex than the JB's out there right now?

[e90AW335i]

Originally Posted by ArmyBimmerDude

Come on guys. Don't ruin this thread with yet another war of words.

+1,000,000

Keep this on topic guys.

[lawdude]

Originally Posted by A418t81

Well at least you got one point correct. Terry and I were having discussions about raising fuel pressure via the relieve valve to add headroom to the fuel system months before the V81/29.2/V3 bomb hit. Also, DI is nothing new in the automotive world, other piggybacks in other markets also control fuel pressure in a similar fashion. Its nothing new or revolutionary. Terry also implements a different boost strategy than Shiv does, and again, ANY decent boost control system will tie in TPS, etc. Again, Shiv didn't invent any of the concepts of boost control.

Wasn't trying to hurt anyone's feelings including yours. When I see credible evidence that changes my opinion, I'll do so. No need for you to get upset about it.

[e.n335]

Originally Posted by sflgator

Terry just began his tuning business ~ 6 months ago and Shiv has been tuning F/I cars (Mitsu Evo/Subie Sti, and now BMW and Porsche) for > 7 years I believe. Shiv is also an electrical and/or computer engineer as well.

I will not start a tuning war as we've seen enough of them on this Forum in the past, but lets just say that Shiv and Terry have somewhat different experience with different approaches to the hardware/software tuning of the 335i.

Originally Posted by A418t81

Terry has been in "business" with BMWs for less than a year, but has been tuning high horsepower blown V8s and the like for years. Also, Terry is a degreed software engineer, I don't believe I have ever actually seen Shiv comment on what he's degreed in, though the flock will assure you otherwise.

It's nice that we have educated tuners .