[CrimsonIvy35i]

My 335i has a tune, and I don't even know what it is or what brand. I only know, I have no traction until 4th gear. I will go to an autologic shop on wednesday to know exactly what tune it is.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by JPSlick

Marketing approaches are cute from all the tuning parties. I dont agree with much of them, which is why I just choose a tune that works for my needs, has the features I need, and the control I want. Safety Included.

I wish all potential buyers had the same knowledge and did the same research before going with a tune. If they did, there would be no need for any marketing. And I compliment you with your tune of choice

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

I wish all potential buyers had the same knowledge and did the same research before going with a tune. If they did, there would be no need for any marketing. And I compliment you with your tune of choice

A wise buddy showed him the light several months ago.....

[themyst]

Originally Posted by Clap135

A wise buddy showed him the light several months ago.....

Word of mouth is a very strong tool indeed. Clap's big mouth spreads like the plague.

[BrianMN]

Originally Posted by themyst

Word of mouth is a very strong tool indeed. Clap's big mouth spreads like the plague.

Haha.

I let a couple JB3 guys at the BIR road course (not drag) use my procede for a few sessions and they were surprised. I had him take it to town for lunch, so he could feel the difference on the street, and his first words back were, "I'm ordering one Monday". Most really won't understand the difference until they actually feel it.

[bmrowe]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

I wish all potential buyers had the same knowledge and did the same research before going with a tune. If they did, there would be no need for any marketing. And I compliment you with your tune of choice

I don't care much for this tune bashing going on, but your lack of business sense is amazing. Why would you post anything in a forum that could make someone question your class? You may or may not have the better product ... either way, act like you have been there before.

If your marketing plan is focused on somebody else's product; you A.) have a worse product or B.) don't have a clue what you are doing. With the large number of supporters on this forum, I'm leaning towards B. Maybe you should rethink the way you present yourself and your company on this forum and consequently how you respond to posts concerning a competitors product.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by bmrowe

I don't care much for this tune bashing going on, but your lack of business sense is amazing. Why would you post anything in a forum that could make someone question your class? You may or may not have the better product ... either way, act like you have been there before.

If your marketing plan is focused on somebody else's product; you A.) have a worse product or B.) don't have a clue what you are doing. With the large number of supporters on this forum, I'm leaning towards B. Maybe you should rethink the way you present yourself and your company on this forum and consequently how you respond to posts concerning a competitors product.

[bmrowe]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

You obviously didn't take my post to heart. Whatever, its your business.

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by themyst

Word of mouth is a very strong tool indeed. Clap's big mouth spreads like the plague.

I come off as an asshole, because
1. I am
2. I speak the truth

[DOUT]

I have the JB3 with the 1.4 software update and I LOVE it.
I never expected the amount of power, and stepping on the gas brings a sensation of sheer exhilaration. My car is VERY fast. I do not care what anyone says, there may be many much faster cars but this is truly incredible. The tune transformed my car and I couldn't have been more happy with it. The only problem is that I have become addicted to speed and although police aren't really a problem, my car now really LOVES gas. If I am driving spiritedly I can go through a tank in 200 miles.

[scott135i]

I have a suggestion. Any time one of these threads starts, it should be highlighted in the subforums so that anyone will know its another tuner 'war' thread without having to read pages of back and forth bashing.

Every time I meet a fellow enthusiast from the forum the following comes up in conversation:

"How funny is the childish tuner bullshit that goes on and on and on...."

To me, its hilarious.

Each tune has its its benefits and negatives. Both tunes have PROVEN to be effective. Neither tune (JB3/Procede) [lets ignore flash tune for now] has blown up or damaged a statistically significant number of vehicles. They both add power for cheap (relatively to the HP/$ gains). They do this in different ways. They each have their own issues.

If either tune was truly bad/trash/sh*tty/garbage/dangerous that would have been well known by now and would have caused a great number of issues/problems and damage. That is not the case. I don't even want to venture a guess into how many total piggyback tunes are in use worldwide in the N54 community. And out of all the thousands and probably tens of thousands, how many serious issues have come to light? 20-30, maybe not even? And what about all of the other outside factors in those situations? Other mods, general car condition, driving conditions, driver, ect...


If I am completely wrong, someone please let me know....

[themyst]

Originally Posted by scott135i

I have a suggestion. Any time one of these threads starts, it should be highlighted in the subforums so that anyone will know its another tuner 'war' thread without having to read pages of back and forth bashing.

Every time I meet a fellow enthusiast from the forum the following comes up in conversation:

"How funny is the childish tuner bullshit that goes on and on and on...."

To me, its hilarious.

Each tune has its its benefits and negatives. Both tunes have PROVEN to be effective. Neither tune (JB3/Procede) [lets ignore flash tune for now] has blown up or damaged a statistically significant number of vehicles. They both add power for cheap (relatively to the HP/$ gains). They do this in different ways. They each have their own issues.

If either tune was truly bad/trash/sh*tty/garbage/dangerous that would have been well known by now and would have caused a great number of issues/problems and damage. That is not the case. I don't even want to venture a guess into how many total piggyback tunes are in use worldwide in the N54 community. And out of all the thousands and probably tens of thousands, how many serious issues have come to light? 20-30, maybe not even? And what about all of the other outside factors in those situations? Other mods, general car condition, driving conditions, driver, ect...


If I am completely wrong, someone please let me know....

two documented engine failures, both pushing the envelope, both in Sweden, both on the JB3.

[themyst]

Originally Posted by bmrowe

I don't care much for this tune bashing going on, but your lack of business sense is amazing. Why would you post anything in a forum that could make someone question your class? You may or may not have the better product ... either way, act like you have been there before.

If your marketing plan is focused on somebody else's product; you A.) have a worse product or B.) don't have a clue what you are doing. With the large number of supporters on this forum, I'm leaning towards B. Maybe you should rethink the way you present yourself and your company on this forum and consequently how you respond to posts concerning a competitors product.

Simple. Shiv is correcting misinformation spread within the forums, and of course testosterone-driven men will always take being corrected to heart. There is a LOT of great information Shiv contributes to these forums, some of which can be perceived as arrogance or bashing the competition, but stating facts does that to us men.

This has nothing to do with class, this has everything to do with what the best tune is in terms of features, drivability, safety and performance. As of today, it is the Procede rev2.

....God that sounded like a beaming Vishnu advertisement, but it's the damn truth.

-edit- in case anyone is wondering, I've had a JB3 for nearly 15k miles before switching.

[scott135i]

Originally Posted by themyst

two documented engine failures, both pushing the envelope, both in Sweden, both on the JB3.

Yup. Agreed .Exactly my point.

TWO (2) cases.... 2/15000 = 1.333333333333333e-4 [assuming there are 15k JB3s worldwide]

Both 'PUSHING THE ENVELOPE', 'BOTH IN SWEDEN'....

So same environment, similar conditions.. hmmmm

-

I don't know much about the high HP setup for JB3 vs Procede, but I think that the JB3 allows for the user to push the car to its limits as safeties can be removed. Fact is, the excessively overwhelming majority of JB3 and Procede users are lightly modded. Most running tune + intake + some combo of exhaust + DPs...

Right or wrong?

[scrufy]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Odd how stating the truth bothers some people. Information is a good thing. Lot of people out there try hard not to give all of it.

like the fact that you dont even make your own boards?
Jeeze give it a rest.
pathetic.

[Mrbig]

Lol no need for any fighting guys use the forum as a tool for info !

[E31BMW]

Originally Posted by themyst

Simple. Shiv is correcting misinformation spread within the forums, and of course testosterone-driven men will always take being corrected to heart. There is a LOT of great information Shiv contributes to these forums, some of which can be perceived as arrogance or bashing the competition, but stating facts does that to us men.

This has nothing to do with class, this has everything to do with what the best tune is in terms of features, drivability, safety and performance. As of today, it is the Procede rev2.

....God that sounded like a beaming Vishnu advertisement, but it's the damn truth.

-edit- in case anyone is wondering, I've had a JB3 for nearly 15k miles before switching.

I agree with what you are saying. what the younger crowed doesnt comprehend is that these 2 guys ( terry and shiv) have their own products on the line. They have passion for what they do and this is there livelihood. It just so happens that when you speak of something you hold so near and dear, you do so with emotion. i would like to see these kids invest that much of their capital and time into projects similar to this and not mention a thing or 2 when prompted. Who cares if a random fact or even opinion is said about one product or the other. its not that serious..... this is a tuning forum

[E31BMW]

ive had a jb+,JB3, a v4 and i will listen to anything Terry or Shiv have to say (that is car related).

[BrianMN]

Originally Posted by scrufy

like the fact that you dont even make your own boards?
Jeeze give it a rest.
pathetic.

Great argument dude. I bet he doesn't even make his own resistors either. Oh, and the plastic connectors? That's totally wrong...Vishnu better get $$millions of manufacturing equipment so they can make each and every part that goes into the V4.

[themyst]

Originally Posted by scott135i

Yup. Agreed .Exactly my point.

TWO (2) cases.... 2/15000 = 1.333333333333333e-4 [assuming there are 15k JB3s worldwide]

Both 'PUSHING THE ENVELOPE', 'BOTH IN SWEDEN'....

So same environment, similar conditions.. hmmmm

-

I don't know much about the high HP setup for JB3 vs Procede, but I think that the JB3 allows for the user to push the car to its limits as safeties can be removed. Fact is, the excessively overwhelming majority of JB3 and Procede users are lightly modded. Most running tune + intake + some combo of exhaust + DPs...

Right or wrong?

Shiv wrote a whole novel on this very topic in the Sevak engine failure thread. You should go about 6 pages back and find it.

FYI, my car is as heavily modded as the two documented failures and I've pushed as much boost as both of them. Removing the "safety" as you call it is not a feature of the JB3, it is simply a way of increasing duty cycle without throwing a 30FF underboost code by maxing out PWM on the standard 24ohm resistors. BMS touts this as a safety feature. I can push 20psi with a change of a decimal in the Procede software whereas on the JB3 you'd have to cut, solder, dial in custom settings to run a 18ohm/15ohm/12ohm board for higher boost levels. BMS does not condone such behavior and any and all risks are taken by the end user, not the company. They just provide a means to push the limits.

If I were Shiv, I'd tell you that the autotune for the lightly tuned Average Joes would compensate by either adding ignition or cutting boost (or both) when conditions change, poor fuel is used, etc. This is a heck of a lot better than the reactive BMS approach of riding the DME knock sensor. By PROACTIVELY adjusting both ignition and boost the engine stays happy and makes for a consistent performing car day in and day out. So yes, even the Average Joe has much to gain from owning a Procede versus a JB3.
-edit- Forgot to mention that you can set the autotuning to be as aggressive or safe as the end user wants.

For us meth guys, it progressively transitions over from the set pump gas map to the higher boost meth map corresponding with the methanol flow rate. The JB3 approach integrated with the coolingmist flow sensor is, if flow <Xml, high boost map is activated. If flow >Xml, "safe" map is activated.

Now to be fair, the JB3 G4 board supposedly coming out this month includes autotuning of boost only, but still does not PROACTIVELY (note the caps) influence ignition timing, just as Shiv stated. It also has the ability to read the CANbus, a feature the BMS camp called wasteful and useless at the time Vishnu released it. I also believe they will be transitioning to the Procede method of methanol safety, but don't quote me on that. At this time, we all are sitting back and waiting to see what BMS has to offer.

I have no vested interest in Vishnu, nor do I have a grudge against BMS. I am merely expressing my opinion in this matter. Again, I have owned both a JB3 (started at 1.2F, up to 2.0) and run a Procede rev2 prior to autotune.

[themyst]

Originally Posted by BrianMN

Great argument dude. I bet he doesn't even make his own resistors either. Oh, and the plastic connectors? That's totally wrong...Vishnu better get $$millions of manufacturing equipment so they can make each and every part that goes into the V4.

I really don't understand why everyone's getting their panties in a bunch over the fact the original N54 Procede was based on the Haltech Interceptor. Wasn't Terry advertising a one-dollar tune just to spite Shiv's pricing after getting tech information from him at the time made out of Radio Shack parts? When people figured out Terry's cheap tune wasn't blowing motors, he went off and undercut the competition, forcing Vishnu to follow suit.

Besides, I don't understand why the hardware point ever came up. What's important is the end result of the said hardware, not what's under the hood. I personally don't understand this point of attack by BMS.

Competition is good for any industry, that's for certain.

[**335i**]

Originally Posted by themyst

two documented engine failures, both pushing the envelope, both in Sweden, both on the JB3.

one is sevak and another?