[tibra1]

Originally Posted by bahn stormer

I may be regretting this but here goes...

Big Tom, those are great goals. I 100% agree with you. However none of us have successfully found an OCC except for apparently you that come close to this.

That leaves the rest of us that do not have time to research and make a custom OCC only two choices: use whats available or go back to stock.

Now with that in mind 100% dry outlet hose is certainly ideal, but even if my OCC only catches 10% of the oil vapor that passes through, that is still 10% better than stock with regard to preventing oil from passing through.

On the issue of back pressure I offer the following example (again). Balance a straw on the tip of your finger. Now put 4 inches of water in it. The backpressure we are talking about is the same as the pressure at the tip of your finger due to the water. Make sure you ignore the weight of the straw.

I am not trying to be a smart ass here but I am a little tired of the OCC bashing when the offered alternative of going back to stock is 0% effective relative to any OCC.

Big Tom, how about some kits or at least a DIY. I would rather be on the constructive side of things since we all have a common problem.

This is the point I was trying to make

Some measure of protection is better than none.

[vasillalov]

Originally Posted by tibra1

LOL>...classic..proved to yourself maybe

Sufficient for me and a lot of other users here as well. My evidence is shared in the link and video I posted. Its your choice to do whatever you want with your engine and car.

[Funkmob]

LIVE UPDATE

Engine cover removed , BSH OCC is out. I can only agree its a piece of junk.
Inside the occ i collected about half the amount of what vasilov showed in his picture.

But the most shocking i observed is that all oil has been blown out past the fittings that BSH provided .

Now i see that the oil coming out underneath the car and that has been diagnosed as a valve cover leak , is actually the oil coming from the vent system.

Seems that the checkvalve at the oulet sits loose in its connection too , if there is to much tension on the hose going to the catch can , the check valve sits twisted in its housing , probably causing the o ring to not seat properly.

So catch can is out now , connected check valve with intake inlet with proper sized tubing.

Will do some test runs now.

[///M3THOD]

Originally Posted by vasillalov

Dude, the point of this OCC is to capture ALL of the fumes. Not 70%, not 80% not 99%, but all 100% of oil.

If you look at your OCC and you see oil being there you CANNOT say that yours is working fine, because chances are, for every oz of oil captured, your engine ingested equal amount.

I understand what your saying about the inefficiency of the design, but isn't even 50%, even 10% caught, better than all of it passing through?

Since on one has developed a system that seems to really be efficient do we even really know what it will take to do this.. at some point the price of engineering/labor/materials/R&D just surpasses what is practical.

I think its clear that the BSH OCC is not optimally designed.. I don't think anyone can, or is, arguing that. Question really becomes whether its better to run nothing..

[dzenno]

Originally Posted by bahn stormer

On the issue of back pressure I offer the following example (again). Balance a straw on the tip of your finger. Now put 4 inches of water in it. The backpressure we are talking about is the same as the pressure at the tip of your finger due to the water. Make sure you ignore the weight of the straw.

I really really don't understand why and how many times we have to discuss BMW "specs" here...again, do NOTE the word I quoted after BMW ---> "specs"

why are we even discussing them time and time again...if you read the Bentley manual in regards to the PCV, crankcase pressure of more than +2" of H2O is considered as "excessive pressure" in the PCV and is considered a "clogged" or "malfunctioning" PCV system...make sure to first realize this without further posting...

seriously, wtf, let's not start talking about how small a pressure this is as I do understand how much a few inches of H2O of pressure is...how small it seems to us really doesn't mean sh*t...its also not the "total" pressure in the crankcase that matters its the pressure variations/differential which can only be measured with a proper differential gauge (i.e. pulses) that take a toll on other components involved...

you like your OCC, run it! Given the data collected and given the bmw specs I'd rather not wonder when it comes to failure whether my OCC was a possibility...been there done that..

[tibra1]

Originally Posted by Funkmob

But the most shocking i observed is that all oil has been blown out past the fittings that BSH provided .

Now i see that the oil coming out underneath the car and that has been diagnosed as a valve cover leak , is actually the oil coming from the vent system. .

Install error..your supposed to finesse those fittings in and use lithium grease to prevent the O-rings from being pinched..your also supposed to use pipe thread on the brass fitting..did you do any of this?

I just removed my engine cowl and outgoing hose..no oil around the fittings or any leaking and just a slight film of oil on the outgoing pipe

[Funkmob]

I would not say its a complete install error. Altough i must say i mounted the engine cover before i connected the hoses to the catch can.
This way i did not see the inlet hose pulled the check valve slightly to the left.

The o rings are not pinched , they just have alot of room to move in their housing.

Main thing is that brass fitting and the fitting that goes into the intake are way to restrictive.

Problem seems to be solved now. Altough its dark outside , i don't see any smoke coming out of the exhaust. There was a litlle bit of a smell but that seems to be gone too after 30 minutes of driving.

For now i will leave the stock system intact until i find a better solution.

Big tom's set up seems the best for now , though i would fabricate a bracket to hold that separator in place.

[bahn stormer]

Originally Posted by dzenno

I really really don't understand why and how many times we have to discuss BMW "specs" here...again, do NOTE the word I quoted after BMW ---> "specs"

why are we even discussing them time and time again...if you read the Bentley manual in regards to the PCV, crankcase pressure of more than +2" of H2O is considered as "excessive pressure" in the PCV and is considered a "clogged" or "malfunctioning" PCV system...make sure to first realize this without further posting...

seriously, wtf, let's not start talking about how small a pressure this is as I do understand how much a few inches of H2O of pressure is...how small it seems to us really doesn't mean sh*t...its also not the "total" pressure in the crankcase that matters its the pressure variations/differential which can only be measured with a proper differential gauge (i.e. pulses) that take a toll on other components involved...

you like your OCC, run it! Given the data collected and given the bmw specs I'd rather not wonder when it comes to failure whether my OCC was a possibility...been there done that..

Relax. I am trying to stay constructive.

I am the one that found the Specs for YOU from the Bently's Manual in your original post (#285 on page 13).

From Bently's:
Normal range: +2.8 to +4.4 inches water.
Crankcase Ventilation Clogged: +40.1 inches water

I do not wish to argue. I agree people can choose for themselves. I just don't want the facts to be misrepresented and the prospect of collecting at least some oil vice none makes sense to me. I am also quite aware that upgraded turbos and higher boost does change the circumstances. I would probably take out my OCC too in that case until I could measure crankcase pressure and prove its ok for myself.

On a side note, after looking back at the Bently's, I found this interesting:

...If the diaphragm valve in the breather housing leaks, full intake vacuum may be applied to the crankcase, resulting in excessive oil consumption, irregular idle, whistling or howling noises or oil smoke in the exhaust.

Maybe the exhaust smoke from the RB upgrade cars is coming from putting crankcase pressure into too much of a vacuum. Perhapse putting a slight restriction in the PCV System would help. Just a thought.

[tibra1]

Originally Posted by bahn stormer

Relax. I am trying to stay constructive.

I am the one that found the Specs for YOU from the Bently's Manual in your original post (#285 on page 13).

From Bently's:
Normal range: +2.8 to +4.4 inches water.
Crankcase Ventilation Clogged: +40.1 inches water

I do not wish to argue. I agree people can choose for themselves. I just don't want the facts to be misrepresented and the prospect of collecting at least some oil vice none makes sense to me. I am also quite aware that upgraded turbos and higher boost does change the circumstances. I would probably take out my OCC too in that case until I could measure crankcase pressure and prove its ok for myself.

On a side note, after looking back at the Bently's, I found this interesting:

...If the diaphragm valve in the breather housing leaks, full intake vacuum may be applied to the crankcase, resulting in excessive oil consumption, irregular idle, whistling or howling noises or oil smoke in the exhaust.

Maybe the exhaust smoke from the RB upgrade cars is coming from putting crankcase pressure into too much of a vacuum. Perhapse putting a slight restriction in the PCV System would help. Just a thought.

Dude its cool..everyone on this forum has their pet p topics (oil, HPFP etc)..for this guy its the PCV system..

[alr335xi]

Get rid of the OCC. They have been known to case backfiring. They are not necessary. You smoke a little running catless. Nature of the beast!

[dzenno]

Bahn stormer, what page of the manual are those specs on? I have it as well and want to check as well...

We know the BSH OCC is within or just out by 1-2" of those specs you mentioned, even with upped turbos...the AR OCC had even less restriction and would actually be within spec...

If those specs you're listing are truly listed exactly that way I'm willing to update the PCV thread with an update that the AR OCC is within BMW specs and doesn't impose damaging restrictions...BSH is i'd say about borderline and given it's hot placement is subpar to the AR passenger side can...

Any chance you can post a pic of those specs from the bentley manual?

[vasillalov]

Originally Posted by bahn stormer

...If the diaphragm valve in the breather housing leaks, full intake vacuum may be applied to the crankcase, resulting in excessive oil consumption, irregular idle, whistling or howling noises or oil smoke in the exhaust.

Interesting indeed! However this will not explain why smoke is coming out of the left tailpipe only. I and a few other owners have fully divorced catless exhaust systems and we are all seeing the same thing: blue smoke from left tail pipe. In the majority of the cases, the problem was blown turbo seals. I am still waiting on my car to be repaired and for the SA to tell me what they found...

[Syndicategt]

Originally Posted by vasillalov

Interesting indeed! However this will not explain why smoke is coming out of the left tailpipe only. I and a few other owners have fully divorced catless exhaust systems and we are all seeing the same thing: blue smoke from left tail pipe. In the majority of the cases, the problem was blown turbo seals. I am still waiting on my car to be repaired and for the SA to tell me what they found...

My RB's go on in a few weeks. I'll let you guys know if my smokin' driver's side exhaust pipe is fixed (bad turbo seal). Am I the only one who gets smoke from under the hood too?

[Joshboody]

So what is the theory in exhaust smoke caused by cc ventilation? I don't think an OCC would have any effect for intake gases. Excessive restriction could cause gases to slip past the rings I guess... this is my only thought.

Blocking the manifold CV could cause more gases in the intake on-boost.

what's the diaphragm valve... is this CV#3 or manifold check valve??

[Big Tom]

Originally Posted by Syndicategt

Am I the only one who gets smoke from under the hood too?

Check that your fittings on the crankcase isn't leaking like they did on Funkmob's BSH OCC.
That could explain the smoke you got from under the hood.

[Paul Stig]

if I can found oil inside the OCC , should I drop them out?

[bahn stormer]

Originally Posted by dzenno

Bahn stormer, what page of the manual are those specs on? I have it as well and want to check as well...

...Any chance you can post a pic of those specs from the bentley manual?

From original post #285:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...518306&page=13

...Page 130-63

"Crankcase breather valve (turbo)...

...If the diaphragm valve in the breather housing leaks, full intake vacuum may be applied to the crankcase, resulting in excessive oil consumption, irregular idle, whistling or howling noises or oil smoke in the exhaust.

Intake vacuum specification for turbo engines

The breather valve sets a pressure range of 7 to 11 mbar.

(This is 2.8 to 4.4 "H2O or 0.102 to 0.160 psig.)

A faulty crankcase breather valve causes significant deviations from the specified value:

Crankcase ventilation clogged: Ambient pressure +100 mbar

(This is 40.1 "H2O or 1.45 psig.)

Crankcase ventilation internal leak: ambient pressure -170 mbar

(This is 68.2 "H2O vacuum or 2.47 psi vacuum.)...

I had to convert mbar to "H2O. Converted to psi as well for reference.

We know the BSH OCC is within or just out by 1-2" of those specs you mentioned, even with upped turbos...the AR OCC had even less restriction and would actually be within spec...

If those specs you're listing are truly listed exactly that way I'm willing to update the PCV thread with an update that the AR OCC is within BMW specs and doesn't impose damaging restrictions...BSH is i'd say about borderline and given it's hot placement is subpar to the AR passenger side can...

I agree.
The BSH is at least borderline in spec for crankcase pressure. It is collecting some oil that would be otherwise passing through. ...and I already own one. (Not likely to be able to sell it because of you. LOL) Anyways that is why I continue to use mine until I have a better option.

AR looks better from the standpoint of cooler location and larger lines. The problem I have with it is the real-estate where it goes is already taken up by my intake and I need to get creative as it is when I put a PWM Meth kit in. Did you ever test crankcase pressure with the AR OCC installed?

The two options I see going forward are:

1. Replace that restrictive adapter on CV#2 outlet to BSH with a larger diameter pre-bent hose. I am pretty sure I can find something that will work. That will at least make what I already have work better.

2. Pester Big Tom to tell us where to source a similar Air Filter Housing and what he did to the internals. I think I can come up with the hoses if they can not be obtained from his source.

[dzenno]

I have no idea how I missed realizing that AR is totally within spec...i did test the AR OCC, results are in the PCV thread...

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=278

For completeness here's a quote:

Originally Posted by dzenno

Thanks to domrep for letting me borrow his brand new AR OCC to test. I have to say of the three OCCs I've had on my car (RR, BSH, AR) the AR one is by far the best in many ways:

1) AR inlet and outlet are 3/4" vs RR 1/4" vs BSH 1/2".
2) AR tubing is 3/4", BSH is 5/8", RR is 3/8"
3) AR has no sharp bends as it sits on the driver's side
4) AR is mounted in an area that doesn't see nearly as much heat as the other cans which helps oil vapor condensation.

The only thing I'd change about it, and this is really easy with the AR unit, is the plastic elbows on the inlet and outlet are reduced from 3/4" to 5/8" for whatever reason. I'd get 3/4" elbows not reduced and run 1" tubing to/from it. The great thing is the can supports this configuration while BSH and RR don't due to the inlets being either welded on or not big enough to begin with. The can is also see through (very hard plastic) with a black metal sleeve over it so no need for a dipstick or some funny tube on the side to check the oil level. It has a nice drain screw at the bottom as well to easily drain it.

Now, in it's out-of-box configuration it performed the best of the three:

AR OCC 3/4" tubing, 3/4-5/8" reduced inlet/outlet elbows:
Stock boost = 2" h2o
Map 1 14.5psi = 1" h2o!

It shows that the occ is able to keep up with higher boost and allows vacuum to do it's job better and reduce crankcase pressure as boost is increased which is really good. I still don't like the fact that crankcase pressure didn't go into vacuum with it but I really think with 1" tubing and full 3/4" inlet/outlet elbows it has a good chance of making it into vacuum.

There you go. I'm still sticking to stock PCV setup as it performs the best by far but if you're looking for an OCC I'd highly recommend the AR one with 3/4" elbows and 1" tubing all the way through.

I'll let my fmic be the OCC it was intended to be from the factory and just clean it out with varsol every 6 months as our cars really have very little blowby to begin with. Spent a lot of time on this, hope everyone can appreciate the results and make their own decisions. I'll try the vibrant exhaust cramkcase evac kit when I get some time and I'll call it done with testing after that.

AR OCC seems to come out a winner actually

[///M3THOD]

Dzenno, have you tried messaging AR with this information. Seems like they would be very responsive to this, as well as the fact that there are so many people following the PCV thread right now.

Nice info!

[dzenno]

Originally Posted by ///M3THOD

Dzenno, have you tried messaging AR with this information. Seems like they would be very responsive to this, as well as the fact that there are so many people following the PCV thread right now.

Nice info!

Just messaged Andrew@AR

[dzenno]

PCV saga thread updated:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9399714

Enjoy your OCCs

[vasillalov]

They may be in spec, but BSH is still junk for not collecting all the oil fumes.