[galahad05]

Well, my borescope arrived yesterday. Haven't even had a chance to open the box yet.

I guess I'll use it on the intake tract this weekend. I may take pics and post them here. Disclaimer: I may possibly be the world's worst photographer.
My car has about 48k miles on it; 2007 model with literally days left on the warranty.

[nichojo]

Originally Posted by galahad05

Well, my borescope arrived yesterday. Haven't even had a chance to open the box yet.

I guess I'll use it on the intake tract this weekend. I may take pics and post them here. Disclaimer: I may possibly be the world's worst photographer.
My car has about 48k miles on it; 2007 model with literally days left on the warranty.

Remember, use the macro setting for close up shots!

[samchoi604]

Originally Posted by galahad05

Well, my borescope arrived yesterday. Haven't even had a chance to open the box yet.

I guess I'll use it on the intake tract this weekend. I may take pics and post them here. Disclaimer: I may possibly be the world's worst photographer.
My car has about 48k miles on it; 2007 model with literally days left on the warranty.

Please keep us updated and post those pics!!!

[Govenator]

Does anyone know how much the buildup actually hurts the performance of the engine? Sure, it looks like crap, but as long as the valves seal properly, does it really make a big difference? Not being smart, I'm just curious to know if anyone has done tests to measure the effect of the cleaning.

[samchoi604]

Originally Posted by Govenator

Does anyone know how much the buildup actually hurts the performance of the engine? Sure, it looks like crap, but as long as the valves seal properly, does it really make a big difference? Not being smart, I'm just curious to know if anyone has done tests to measure the effect of the cleaning.

The race tuned RS4 was said to be losing 1hp for every 500 miles or something like that... of course that's a pretty extreme case and no one knows for sure for the 335i but I'm guessing the higher you tune your car, the more it will be affected.

[galahad05]

There's lots of factors in principle (let me don my scientific wild-ass-guessing hat):

1) Smaller intake passages = more "resistance" to the push of the turbos. Think small soda straw vs big soda straw.
2) Rougher surfaces in the air passages = more air turbulence. Lots of times the intake guys want to build in "laminar" (smooth) air flow. Goes back to the ease of the air in going into the combustion chambers.
3) Caking of the back of the intake valves = slightly more weight in these valves. Now try yanking these up and down at 7000 rpm and the reciprocating losses might start to add up (I admit, this one's a bit of a stretch).
4) Uneven seating surface between the valve and the head. This definitely can cause some nasty power losses.

[malter2.0]

Car is fine. These are not F1 engines. All cars will have some soot build up. Run good gas, change your filters on time and it will be OK. They run these engines to failure multiple times, take them apart and analyze. BMW knows its I-6 engine better than you know yourself. If anything focus on things that will nickel and dime you, which BMW is famous for....HPFP, injectors, subframes etc.

[Glim]

Read an interesting article about a 2008 Audi RS4 (DI Engine) with a similar issue where he ran it on a Dyno before and after cleaning, saw a 41 AWHP gain after cleaning, after 10,000 miles the power output was reduced 5%, he now gets his engine cleaned yearly for $1,200:

http://www.autoobserver.com/2011/06/...-adopters.html


Direct Injection:

The HPFP sends fuel to the fuel injectors, fuel injectors are in the cylenders, because they are in the cylenders it prevents the valves and intake from getting cleaned by fuel. The valves and ports get caked and clogged with carbon, the carbon can flake off and burn holes in the catalytic converter.

[tunachris]

OK I spoke to my dealer yesterday to check the next service interval. They will not clean the intake ports as part of the maint. program.

I had my car at HP Autowerks a few weeks ago to change the diffrential fluid, and I was told it is a good idea to clean the intake ports every 25,000 miles or so. As I currently have about 27,000, I guess I will do this soon on my own nickel. I may wait until after the next scheduled service which is in a couple of months, or at 29,000 miles. Starting to think that the plugs and head cleaning can be done at the same time.

I did pick up a can of BG44K and put it in the gas about 1,000 miles back. I know this isn't going to clean the ports, so a head cleaning is on my to do list.

[galahad05]

Well, I just had my car in for scheduled service--oil change, wipers, state inspection.
I figured I'd ask about the intake cleaning service. They don't use the walnut shell air-blast method here. They use some chemical into the intake (vacuum line I presume) while the engine is running. Somewhat like people do with seafoam.

$199 for the service.

I said what the hell, why not? Had it done.

....

I have to say, the car is noticeably more powerful. The difference is so big that I can't put it down to "wishful thinking"; HUGE seat-of-the-pants feel.
The only problem for me is that I never got around to doing the borescope peek at the intake passages; if I do it now, I'll see results post-"induction service".

Just on the better throttle response, less/no missing at idle/huge power after cleaning I'd say do it. Recommended.

[samchoi604]

Originally Posted by galahad05

Well, I just had my car in for scheduled service--oil change, wipers, state inspection.
I figured I'd ask about the intake cleaning service. They don't use the walnut shell air-blast method here. They use some chemical into the intake (vacuum line I presume) while the engine is running. Somewhat like people do with seafoam.

$199 for the service.

I said what the hell, why not? Had it done.

....

I have to say, the car is noticeably more powerful. The difference is so big that I can't put it down to "wishful thinking"; HUGE seat-of-the-pants feel.
The only problem for me is that I never got around to doing the borescope peek at the intake passages; if I do it now, I'll see results post-"induction service".

Just on the better throttle response, less/no missing at idle/huge power after cleaning I'd say do it. Recommended.

I'm sorry that you paid $199 for an easy 30 mins job. As discussed, chemicals can't properly get rid of carbon buildup which is hard as rock. If it were that easy, people wouldn't need to resort to using walnut blasting or scraping with a metal scrub.

The difference you noticed was probably attributed from the oil change or some software reset. Feel free to prove me wrong with a peek from your borescope.

[galahad05]

Like I said, I was surprised. I didn't believe it would do much. It literally was a "Well, why the hell not? Let's see if this does anything." for me.

For the first time ever, 30 mph 2nd gear heavy throttle = the rear end sliding around on my new pilot super sports.
Earlier that day the car wouldn't do it.

Surprised the hell out of me. I'd expected something as simple as a smoother idle.

Whatever the hell they did--oil, software reset, chemicals, voodoo sacrifices--sure as hell caused an eye-opening change. And I want more of whatever it was.

I'll do the borescope this weekend.

[galahad05]

Found this--probably what they did.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=2102722

[chromisdesigns]

Originally Posted by galahad05

Found this--probably what they did.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=2102722

Link not working.

[samchoi604]

Originally Posted by galahad05

I'll do the borescope this weekend.

Looking forward to those pics (and you proving my previous post wrong)

[galahad05]

It won't be definitive proof (probably).

Scenario 1: clean as a whistle --> doesn't prove that the induction service did a thing, just that the intake is clean
Scenario 2: dirty like a hippie --> DOES prove that the induction service doesn't work (or at least doesn't work well enough)

However, I'll do the check any way. Post the results if I can figure out how to do all that.

[galahad05]

Originally Posted by chromisdesigns

Link not working.

Hopefully this fixes it.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=2102722

EDIT: And I sent the dealership's service department an email asking just how they perform this procedure. If they reply I'll copy it here.

[galahad05]

Okay, I'm down to the throttle body and about to use the video inspection camera.......and @#$! the unit apparently won't take snapshots. The box cover mentions it, the cover of the manual mentions it....and the manual itself doesn't say how to do this. There aren't any controls for it. Or usb ports out or anything.

I'm going to have to do some dorky sony-cybershot-pic-of-inspection-camera's-lcd-screen stupidity to even have a shot at posting pics.
And I am a horrible photographer on the best of days to start with....

[galahad05]

Okay, a big fat fail. I can't get the throttle butterfly to open up enough to let the scope snake in. The throttle body's butterfly is servo controlled, and I can't get it to open at all with the engine off.

If anyone knows how to get around this problem....

I'm going to button things back up soon.

[samchoi604]

Originally Posted by galahad05

Okay, a big fat fail. I can't get the throttle butterfly to open up enough to let the scope snake in. The throttle body's butterfly is servo controlled, and I can't get it to open at all with the engine off.

If anyone knows how to get around this problem....

I'm going to button things back up soon.

Damn! I never thought about this.. Hopefully someone has a solution soon.

[Rotorocious]

Did you try with the ignition on and someone holding the gas pedal down?

[galahad05]

Yes I did---well, by "ignition on" I assume you mean accessory (not engine ON) mode. That is, one press of the start button. Then hold the gas pedal down as I check for throttle valve clearance.
No dice.