[Pierre Louis]

Originally Posted by OILPowered

Well said- it's definitely apples to oranges. M3 = little compromise, ultra high performance street/track 3er with the flash and panache to match. 335d= high performance for the efficiency minded enthusiast (or for those that just love torque) 3er with the subtlety for the mainstream. To each is own.

Thank you.

PL

[Puerto Rican 335d]

Amigos a couple of days ago I ran with my my friend and his M3, we were rolling along when I decided to leave him behind and yes I DID leave him behind somewhat 1/4 mile behind, i got him for the last time he got me, when I arrived to work i asked him hey how does the DIESEL move , he said wow that thing can move!! Anyway yesterday as i went to other side of the island, I ran across and MB 50 AMG, so I decided to play with him or better said he with me, but to my surprise as we were climbing on a sector of the middle of the island which is nearly 6-8 miles long uphill at 25-30 degree slope I had pulled out hard from the toll booth and I caught him by surprise as I slowed down he caught up no sooner he got within 3 car lengths I took off the DSC and went Sport Mode and VIOLA left him in the dust next thing I know, Im doing 120 mph on an incline and the beast asking for more. I was very surprised and so was the guy he never caught up until we went down hill and I let it cruise. Yes the MB could of killed me in the straight line but my TORQEY I6 with it its ECU upgrade made me feel like Superman, Gracias RENNtech!!!

P.D. BTW I ran into my friend and asked if he still selling his M3 , needless to say he is!! I beleive its because he cant afford it no more

[NRG]

@PR

Man I understand a tuned 335d can quickly "outburst" an AMG or an M, but once the V8 gets up to spinning from the dig or from the pull he'll wave you buy-buy.

[dxb335d]

There is just a lot of shit M3 drivers.

[madmax95gtr]

I liked this guys response...

Probably a sleeper. I used to put 328i badges on my car and tell people it was a 328i with an M3 bodykit so they would race me.

[NRG]

Originally Posted by dxb335d

There is just a lot of shit M3 drivers.

That too I just don't see how it's possible for any 35d to out run V8 M or AMG, their upper range is nuts, while our diesel falls flat after 3500-4000rpm. Funny isn't it 4000 in D vs 8000+ in M

[Puerto Rican 335d]

@ NRG very true but the guy either was LOSER for a driver or my latest RENNtech upgrade in which Lenny modified the parameters to give me more UMMPH over 5k did the job, either way I blew him away he later passed me cause I slowed down anyhow it felt GREAT!!!!!

BTW Call Lenny at RENNtech and asked him what he did to my car's ECU , I was there and he showed me the changes but NO PICTURES were allowed, you know propriety issues

[Pierre Louis]

Originally Posted by NRG

@PR

Man I understand a tuned 335d can quickly "outburst" an AMG or an M, but once the V8 gets up to spinning from the dig or from the pull he'll wave you buy-buy.

I understand this is true. I fact, that is what I said. If you wish to have a race car, get an M3.

So far there is no disagreement. Funny your use of the words "buy-buy" as if the extra money spent on the M3 was part of the discussion as I also said.

In fact, if I did wish to race on the street, an M3 would be preferred.

PL

[F32Fleet]

Real question is IF you won a M3 (cough..cough BMWCCA Oktoberfest raffle ) would you sell your diesel?

[cssnms]

Originally Posted by Socom

Real question is IF you won a M3 (cough..cough BMWCCA Oktoberfest raffle ) would you sell your diesel?

No. I would sell the M3 and use the cash to pay-off my diesel, buy new BBS wheels, M3 suspension bits/sways, LSD, Performance steering wheel and put the other $20k in the bank.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by Pierre Louis

BMW developed the V8 for the M3 because they were pissed off at Porsche always beating them with the 911 flat 6's in competition. There was a big flap about it when BMW introduced the V8 and Porsche protested that BMW got away with bending the rules. The bottom line is, when Porsche engineers improvements into its motors, there is always an improvement in efficiency included: that means a performance improvement in mpg. That is how legends are born with their small cars beating the thirsty behemoth racers of yore: fewer fuel stops too.

So now BMW is facing a problem of where to go next with its V8, originally a bad decision for its M3 since it bears a double whammy of gas guzzler tax and premium gas with an EPA rating of 14 City, 20 Highway!

Rumor has it that the inline 6 might get an electric tri-turbo. At any rate, the mpg's will be better and be sure that the torque with turbos will be substantially better as well as more horsepower. It just won't be normally aspirated.

But BMW already has something special they apparently won't import to North America. Consider how Audi has won the last 6 out of 7 24-hours LeMans races (the other by a Peugeot diesel) with their turbo-diesels. It would be great to have the M535d here in the States. Already BMW has the only all-aluminum inline 6 tri-turbo direct injection diesel passenger car with an engine that weighs about what the M3 V8 does.

Now wouldn't that be legendary.

PL

The M-engineers were disappointed with the MPGs no doubt. It was even mentioned in print. I remember the press releases saying the V8 was going to be just like the V10 and that half liter per cylinder offered the best of performance and efficiency. My guess is that BMW is happy to be done with that model line. We already have tri-turbo diesel so no surprise if the M3 engine is also same. Not a great leap.

[Puerto Rican 335d]

@Chris I would also sell the M3, mind you the M3 is a GREAT car but having the 335d makes me feel more of a class APART!!! That said the M3 owners envy us in some way or the other but frankly who cares Im happy and also happy they have their "M"s but at a cost

And BTW anyone, AUDI is laughing at everyone with the DIESELS!!! like PL stated they've won the Lemans 6 out 0f 7 races and Peugoet has won with their DIESELS, cant say that about the other marquee cars huh!!

[Pierre Louis]

Arguably, horsepower is related to transfer of energy while torque is the ease of movement of mass if such an oversimplification is possible. Both are inter-related and can be manipulated to produce speed on a race track. Higher torque may have advantages coming out of corners while similar gasoline engines may have straight line acceleration advantages.

The next M3 will undoubtedly go head to head with its stated rival - the 991 Porsche - a car that likely can beat it on a track for similar cash. There is great doubt that any 335d would hold up to such racing competition. Most diesel aficionados don't buy it for that anyway.

In the future, however, BMW may take heed of the last 6 years of winning LeMans racers, the latest which was an Audi V6 diesel hybrid e-Tron. Other manufacturers are already clamoring to change to rules they say favor diesels. The argument is that fuel efficiency is a performance parameter that leads to fewer stops, but somehow the diesels also get the pole position too. Can the enormous torque have something to do with it?

The idea that one type of setup can compare to another by looking at a single parameter such as high revving horsepower is theoretically flawed since one can imagine the alternative to the current street setup of the 335d to compete with the M3 as an 8 speed direct shifting auto-manual gearbox keeping the diesel's revs in the proper range with the final drive ratio adjusted for track use and a proper limited slip differential fitted. The ideal comparison might be an M3 chassis with the diesel tri-turbo and an auto-manual that can handle the torque and shifting at lower RPM points to maximize power output. This may be how Audi wins all those races too, I don't know.

Cheers

PL

[Puerto Rican 335d]

@PL good statement but the If I can recall back then AUDI was driving the 10 cyl DIESEL and pumping somewhat over 600 hp with at a minimum of 1200 lbs of torque on ALL wheel drive, needless to say they had less gears to change and of course the fuel economy made them have fewer pit stops!!. In order for BMW to go that route they would as you stated use the TRI-Turbo set up and also go X drive to able to compete against AUDI at least!!

[BQTuning]

Originally Posted by Puerto Rican 335d

@ NRG very true but the guy either was LOSER for a driver or my latest RENNtech upgrade in which Lenny modified the parameters to give me more UMMPH over 5k did the job, either way I blew him away he later passed me cause I slowed down anyhow it felt GREAT!!!!!

BTW Call Lenny at RENNtech and asked him what he did to my car's ECU , I was there and he showed me the changes but NO PICTURES were allowed, you know propriety issues

Nice kill

[NRG]

Originally Posted by Pierre Louis

I understand this is true. I fact, that is what I said. If you wish to have a race car, get an M3.

So far there is no disagreement. Funny your use of the words "buy-buy" as if the extra money spent on the M3 was part of the discussion as I also said.

In fact, if I did wish to race on the street, an M3 would be preferred.

PL

Lol that's freaking auto spell/correct on my phone

[NRG]

I would definitely keep the M, correcting the mistake I made not buying it a year ago. Then transfer the lease of my diesel X without hesitation and never own diesel car again. Don't you just love how I love diesels. Ultimately I would prefer a NA immediate responding-high revving motor.

[Puerto Rican 335d]

@NRG your so crazy LOL, you seem like bitter bitch that was abandoned by her boyfriend for an uglier chick!!! jajajajajajajajja

Buraq i have a guy here in Puerto Rico that is interested on your job done by lenny, if you mind call his ass, he's undecided cause he has the Dinan Stage CU mod and is weary about it. PM me and I will give you his cell number to convince him thats if he wants to ok!!

[Pierre Louis]

Originally Posted by NRG

I would definitely keep the M, correcting the mistake I made not buying it a year ago. Then transfer the lease of my diesel X without hesitation and never own diesel car again. Don't you just love how I love diesels. Ultimately I would prefer a NA immediate responding-high revving motor.

Funny you should mention exactly how I feel about digital SLR's. My old Minolta X700 gives me that immediate response but I would love to have the newer tech = have my cake and eat it too! Do you by chance have a favorite DSLR???

Of note, some of the criticism of the new F30 328i turbo I4 is the same: rough running, sounding like a diesel (of old) and the on/off of the engine causing a throttle delay. Wonder what BMW will do to the next M3 drive-train? The current M3 may be the last NA V8 for an M car.

PL

[NRG]

Originally Posted by Puerto Rican 335d

@NRG your so crazy LOL, you seem like bitter bitch that was abandoned by her boyfriend for an uglier chick!!! jajajajajajajajja

PR refer from comments like that...!

Just remember "Speedy Gonzales" to an AMG or an M owner you prove nothing. After all he has a car that has twice more cojones then yours. Comparable to you, is being past by a tricked out Fiesta, would it bother you? Lol.

[Puerto Rican 335d]

@NRG sorry I hurt your feelings!!! it was not intended that way but as a joke, if a FIESTA pases me I'll laugh like hell, but I would love to see what he has for an engine. Although THOSE cars have supposedly some cojones, the mere fact that I PASSED them and could not keep up makes me happy. The speedy gonzalez with a Z not an S, and BTW Im not mexican but Puerto Rican . Hey I posted the new pics from WAGNER go check it out before you sell your "D", Hasta luego amigo!!

[FormerRotor]

Originally Posted by NRG

Comparable to you, is being past by a tricked out Fiesta, would it bother you? Lol.

Lol, I'm not a regular road racer, and I certainly don't participate in the "nice kill!" commentaries, but it always feels good to pass a car when most think you shouldn't have been able to. And it never feels good when the CRX (with no exterior work, but a v8 crammed in the back seat) goes easily passing you by.

That's what makes sleepers so lovable. Nothing breaks a Ferrari owners heart like being passed by a rusted mid-80s Volvo (containing a twin turbo v10) or a cheap RX8 (with a 20B or 26B twin-turbo engine crammed under the bonnet).

...so, yes, being passed by the Fiesta would irk me, and yes, being passed by a d likely irked the M owner. At the end of the day, though, its all about if you like what's in your garage. The M owner goes home saying "I love my M, but what a slick d" and the d owner goes home saying "I love my d and have a lot of respect for that m" or perhaps "I love my d, but f*ing Fiesta!"

NRG, sorry you regret your decision. As fellow car guys/gals, I'm sure we can all empathize with how much it would suck to drive a car you don't love (even though most of us love ours). What lead to making the wrong decision in the first place? Didnt you know that the d was not an M? Also, why the SUV if you prefer smaller, more precision-oriented vehicles?