[gIzzE]

MrG your crossovers sound wrong, this is what happens, tweeters and woofers but no mids.


Take the door off and swap them around.

[gIzzE]

Originally Posted by AdrianSi

gIzzE - can the filters be altered on the amp internally?

Also what is the feasibility of adding say an additional matched alpine amp and tying the 2 left sub channels and 2 right sub channels together and powering a pair of sws's?

No to changing filters.

I would just buy a cheap 2 channel digital amp and wire the subs with that.
Messing around with this is a non starter.

[Per Hansson]

Hi all, this became a really long post and I apologize in advance for that, I'm asking for advice on how to improve the Alpine system...
I installed the Alpine Retrofit kit 65-41-0-445-684 in my BMW E90 '06 that has the Professional Head unit this weekend.
The install took around 6 hours, I first installed the crossovers incorrectly
The reason was the strange naming of the outputs; "Head unit" was supposed to go to the tweeter, I obviously connected it to the Head unit...
I did do a listen test before reassembling the door, as I had not put in the Alpine Amplifier yet I assumed the low output levels where due to this.
Had I read this thread BEFORE doing the assembly I would have known the Head unit is actually able to drive the Mids and Tweeters quite well on it's own...

But after fixing that snafu the system sounds a WHOLE LOT better than it did without it!
I've done a few listening tests and come to the realization that it's actually better to fade the system all the way to the front (disabling the rear speakers)
-Even when listening in the back, the sound from the rear speakers is just dreadful, the sound scene is actually quite good with the rear speakers disabled when listening in the rear seat...

The system is a little lacking in the bass department though, as I have the Professional Head unit I have the amplifier set to position #2 per the installation manual.
The information by "montr" in this thread says that it only controls the woofer outputs.
With the switch in position #1 there was ALLOT more bass and the mids and highs seemed unchanged to me.

Originally Posted by montr

The purpose of the switch on the amplifier is to attenunate the woofer output, 0 dB in position 1 and -4 dB in position 2. My take is that if you have a 4 Ohms woofer then position 1,
for a 2 Ohms woofer then position 2. This is to normalize the response of the woofer with the midbass and tweeter.

I am more happy with the bass with the switch in #1
So my question is if I get new woofers, either the discussed SWS-8x in this thread (4ohm preferably I think after researching) or the woofers included by the BMW "Hifi" or "Hifi Pro" system
Would the Alpine amp be able to drive them so it sounds atleast a bit better?
(if going by the numbers by "montr" then it would mean that with the switch in the #1 position my subs where driven at double the sound pressure level (+4dB)
Do you think the after market subs or the Hifi subs would surpass this?
Or is the Alpine amplifier simply too weak?
I was quite surprised/shocked by the splicing of the original 2.5mm² cables and then connecting these to the output cables coming back from the new Alpine Amps harness that where only 0.75mm² going to the subs!
(At ca 3m length we can only hope for ca 60w at 12v)

I've also been contemplating buying the BMW "Hifi" midbass and tweeter for the rear.
I've had a listen to a system equipped with the "Hifi" sound system (BMW #676) and it has weaker mids and highs vs the Alpine system in the drivers seat.
However in the backseat it has a better sound scene (well obviously since there are speakers not made out of paper mounted and there actually ARE tweeters installed!)
It also has ALLOT better bass, I know the "Hifi" system has 217mm woofers vs the 160mm woofers in my "base model"
But if my understanding is right then the "Hifi" system still drives the whole sound system from the Head unit, except for the Woofers which are driven by an Amplifier mounted in the rear left side of the car?

That's why I think it should work well to buy the same speakers and put them in the rear connected to the headunit, and also the same subs or the SWS-8x and have those running off the Alpine Amp.
I'm even contemplating getting the dash mounted speaker from the BMW Hifi Pro sound system, but am not sure about that since cable routing feels like it could be difficult.
(And I'm not sure how much extra power there could be left in the 0.5mm² cables going from the Alpine Amp to the front system...)

In the weekend I will remove the door panels and put some Dynamat on the doors, can someone tell me which side to put it on?
The Dynamat instructions tell to put it at the "metal side" of the door, but this install video at 8:30 by Bavarian Soundwerks tells to put it on the other side (the door panel you remove) so which side does it go on?
Also I'll fit the original foam gasket that goes in the tweeters housing (51-33-7-171-201) I guess it will need some cutting to fit? (I can't find any part numbers for it with a premade cutout for the tweeters...)

[gIzzE]

Just put it in pos 1, those subs need some help.

Forget adding SWS8 subs, the amps is not capable of getting the levels to match your mids, you will have even less bass.

Also forget adding rear tweeters or changing rear speakers as the head unit is EQ'd and nothing top end is even being fed to the rear channels anyway.



The hifi system uses and amp to drive all speakers, it uses separate channels for the mids and the subs.

Also the Alpine amp goes from 125-50hz on the sub channels, so adding subs that go lower is pretty pointless really as the info is not there to get the benefit, obviously having a bigger driver will move more air, but you need the extra power to do this and the Alpine doesn't have enough to do it justice.

That is the problem with these cars, you try and upgrade but you are limited in every direction.

[Per Hansson]

Okay thanks,
I guess if I would have known this I might have gone a different route.
Thinking Blaupunkt THA555 or something similar, actually that might not be a good choice either due to the "colorful" output given by the Professional Head unit.

I guess a DSP is required so that the equalization can be normalized and then amplified.
Tell me one thing just out of curiosity, are all Alpine Professional Head units the same?
I.e. is it only BMW coding that separates them? Does my headunit have the optical output that the Logic 7 "Hifi Pro" system would use?

I'm just thinking out loud here if it would be possible to hack/mod the Head unit to output a normalized output?
Like what the 3/09 and newer cars offer by the built in Alpine choice "Hifi System Alpine" in the Head units coding system...

[gIzzE]

Yeah they are the same, well some from 9/2009 have no optical out, but before that they are the same. If you code your car for Hi_fi it will flatten the head unit and give it a line level output oner the speakers outputs.

[gIzzE]

I think I have decided to rip my whole system out, as much as I really like the oem look as soon as I get back in my E Class I really notice how horrid the BMW system is, and the only way to get round this is to put a new head unit in and start from scratch.

Typically though in the X1 a double din is not possible!! Just not the space.

So maybe a Nakamichi, McIntosh or if I can find someone to rob a stereo shop a Pioneer P99RS!

[Per Hansson]

Originally Posted by gIzzE

Yeah they are the same, well some from 9/2009 have no optical out, but before that they are the same. If you code your car for Hi_fi it will flatten the head unit and give it a line level output oner the speakers outputs.

Interesting, are there any aftermarket amps or DSP's available that can connect to the optical output and get a usable signal from it?
Or must the BMW proprietary amplifier from the Logic 7 system be used?

With line level I assume you mean it's "high level" still not the "low level" expected via coax on most amplifiers? (Sorry I'm not certain on the correct English wording since it's not my native language)

[gIzzE]

There are amps, an Italian one at €2,400 and Audison are about to bring out a box that converts the BMW optical to optical their digital processor understands, but again you are looking at £600 for the convertor and then another £800 odd for the processor, and then you need to add amps and no point doing it on the cheap at that point.


Line level is low level, just that it is sent a a balanced differential signal over the speaker cables, it is around 5v.
Some amps will take this no problem, the JL Audio XD range will for a start.

[Per Hansson]

Thanks for the info gIzzE.
The optical path then puts it in the same range as doing a full conversion to the "Individual" sound package and have it installed by BMW, kinda crazy.
Atleast now I know which route could have been taken instead (coding the Head unit for "Hifi" so I get line level and connecting that up to a good amplifier)
Would there be any issue with coding the stereo for Hifi when I don't have the BMW amplifier? (Is there a risk it will throw an error code because it's missing, i.e. would I even with this choice require a "BMW protocol speaking" amplifier?)

Also do you have any idea on this below, I'm guessing that Bavarian Soundwerks has it right and put the Dynamat on the door panel which the speakers mount to, that still leaves me wondering about the included instructions which says otherwise....

Originally Posted by Per Hansson

In the weekend I will remove the door panels and put some Dynamat on the doors, can someone tell me which side to put it on?
The Dynamat instructions tell to put it at the "metal side" of the door, but this install video at 8:30 by Bavarian Soundwerks tells to put it on the other side (the door panel you remove) so which side does it go on?
Also I'll fit the original foam gasket that goes in the tweeters housing (51-33-7-171-201) I guess it will need some cutting to fit? (I can't find any part numbers for it with a premade cutout for the tweeters...)

[snerkler]

Going back to the off centre single din, why is it the double din is centered and the single not? Is it just a case of someone's made a centered double din cage and not for the single? If it is is there a reason for no-one making a centered single din? Seems very odd to me.

Is it possible to swap my business head unit with a professional one, and would the Alpine system still work? Would there be any coding issues? The reason for my question is that way I could keep the OEM look but run the Dension gateway. This needs an optical output which I don't believe the business stereo has, maybe someone can clarify that for me?

[gIzzE]

You remove the cage with the double din install.
I guess no one has done it cause it would be over £100 and BMW already made one, until recently.

Professional head unit swap has been done to death, search the topics.

You could get someone to code it for you. If you do that just buy the USB retrofit kit and a bluetooth mic and antenna.
Total cost around £250 for the kit, £150 for the module off ebay, £50 for mic and antenna and then £100 to code.
Plus £150 for a used professional radio.

This will give you oem radio with usb and bluetooth.

I would avoid the Dension, works OK with Audis, and passable with iDrive but a pain with BMW radio.

[gIzzE]

Originally Posted by Per Hansson

Also do you have any idea on this below, I'm guessing that Bavarian Soundwerks has it right and put the Dynamat on the door panel which the speakers mount to, that still leaves me wondering about the included instructions which says otherwise....

I would definitely put it on the door card.

[snerkler]

Originally Posted by gIzzE

You remove the cage with the double din install.
I guess no one has done it cause it would be over £100 and BMW already made one, until recently.

Professional head unit swap has been done to death, search the topics.

You could get someone to code it for you. If you do that just buy the USB retrofit kit and a bluetooth mic and antenna.
Total cost around £250 for the kit, £150 for the module off ebay, £50 for mic and antenna and then £100 to code.
Plus £150 for a used professional radio.

This will give you oem radio with usb and bluetooth.

I would avoid the Dension, works OK with Audis, and passable with iDrive but a pain with BMW radio.

Thanks for the info again. I've used the search but can't find what I want to know regarding compatibility with the Alpine system

Also, what EQ's does the pro system have?

Kind of contrary to what people have regarding the lack of bass with the Alpine System I've had some old school rave stuff on this week which has some really really low dirty bass and the Alpine system copes with this pretty well imo (taking into consideration cost etc). What I find lacking is the mid bass, and mid range. The mid range sound relatively hollow imo, but am wondering if this is just because the business stereo only has bass and treble settings and none for mid range? I'm wondering if you could tweak the mid range eq's is might give it a fuller sound, hence me asking about the EQ's on the professional system?

[gIzzE]

The professional is compatible, however, it has even less mid bass.
It is EQ'd so there is 6db gain around 50hz and again at 15,000hz.

I put an old business unit back in mine when I first intsalled the Alpine until I cold get the unit coded, it sounded much fuller.

Problem is that sort of sound is the Alpine sound.
They do sound thin in the midrange, all Alpine head units do too.

I don't really know what else to add.

[Per Hansson]

I installed the Dynamat on the drivers side door this evening.
I can't say it made that much difference, then again I have not had the Alpine Retrofit installed for a full week yet so for sure I'm not "used" to how it sounds.
It's definantely an improvement, tho probably not worth the money it cost (ca €100)

But I had it left over from an install that never got done in my previous car, an e46 320, so might as well get some use out of it
Will do the passengers side next week probably...

Also I answered my own question below, the tweeter gaskets that where there from the beginning actually have the cutout from the tweeters already done, so no need to mod it

Originally Posted by Per Hansson

Also I'll fit the original foam gasket that goes in the tweeters housing (51-33-7-171-201) I guess it will need some cutting to fit? (I can't find any part numbers for it with a premade cutout for the tweeters...)

[gIzzE]

The mids only go down to 125hz, so sound deadening them won't make much difference at all.
When I did my last car I got the mids down to 60Hz and adding reading to that make a load if difference.

[snerkler]

Originally Posted by gIzzE

The professional is compatible, however, it has even less mid bass.
It is EQ'd so there is 6db gain around 50hz and again at 15,000hz.

I put an old business unit back in mine when I first intsalled the Alpine until I cold get the unit coded, it sounded much fuller.

Problem is that sort of sound is the Alpine sound.
They do sound thin in the midrange, all Alpine head units do too.

I don't really know what else to add.

So wouldn't having a head unit where you can tweak the mid range help at all then?

[gIzzE]

Originally Posted by snerkler

So wouldn't having a head unit where you can tweak the mid range help at all then?

A head unit with an EQ will allow you to try and grab some more mid bass back and calm that upper mid range a bit.

But adding a second amp to drive some earthquake subs will help even more.

There just isn't enough bass on this system to give some warmth.

[-=MrG=-]

@gIzzE
TNX, worked for me.

[gIzzE]

Excellent.

[snerkler]

Originally Posted by gIzzE

A head unit with an EQ will allow you to try and grab some more mid bass back and calm that upper mid range a bit.

But adding a second amp to drive some earthquake subs will help even more.

There just isn't enough bass on this system to give some warmth.

I think this is going to be my long term plan when I have more pennies in the bank

I know this is a right numpty question, but it's been mentioned about coding different OEM head units, can you not code aftermarket ones?