[tony20009]

Originally Posted by csu87

My current work truck cost more than a new 335.

Trucks have always cost that much. In 2000 suburbans were 40-50k and the denali version was in the 60s

I don't deny that one could have spent that much on an SUV then or or that one can do so now. But pickup trucks haven't "always" been expensive by any means.

Keith Koscak, car specialist with Auctions America, points out that one could buy a pickup truck in 2000 for $15K. (https://www.yahoo.com/autos/why-old-...521024037.html) I bought a 1993 BMW 318i sedan 5MT with nothing but heated seats, fog lights and a sunroof. It listed for ~$23K.

Multiple sources on the WWW have discussed the rapid rise in truck prices. I provided several a post or two above. (Here's another: http://jalopnik.com/holy-crap-pickup...ive-1647230940) Trucks have seen in the past decade almost a 38% increase in selling price. In contrast, the base price of a BMW 335i sedan has gone from ~$39.4K in 2007 to $43.75K today in 2015, corresponding to an 11% increase.

I don't know if that makes a truck a good buy or a BMW a bad one (most likely is neither conclusion is valid for the information provided, along with both vehicles not being "apples" except at the most basic levels, is hardly enough to firmly make such a claim), but I do know truck selling prices have essentially caught up with BMW prices. And that means trucks are no longer inexpensive.

All the best.

P.S.
When someone says/writes "work truck," I think of the essentially or very sparsely optioned trucks and vans that my family's company buys. They have radios and air conditioning, but that's about it.

That means something more or less like this F-150 XL...



...rather than these...







Indeed, differences in appointment levels that extreme don't even exist in any given BMW model.

I might pay $60K for a "work truck" but only if it's a specialized truck of some sort.

[csu87]

Funny you picked that picture, as thats my 2500s interior lol. You can still get a pickup for 15k, but it isnt going to be a big truck or a nice truck. I think we get our fleet chevy silverados for ~15k each barebones and buying in bulk.

If you think about it, trucks are bigger and use more materials than most other cars in their production. Add to it the luxury options that they have been adding, and yeah a fully loaded truck would make sense to be sold for 60k+.

[shadow191]

FWIW, a ton of a pickup's price is profit, they're consistently among the highest margin vehicles. It varies, but a lot of analysts say Ford makes north of $10K in profit on every F150 they sell. It's less for smaller trucks which is why most companies stopped making small trucks.

The lowest profit areas are usually mid sized sedans and compact cars; lots of car companies just make those because they have to. ie, if it weren't for mileage requirements, they would never sell cars like a Chevy Sonic here which basically loses money.

Originally Posted by csu87

Funny you picked that picture, as thats my 2500s interior lol. You can still get a pickup for 15k, but it isnt going to be a big truck or a nice truck. I think we get our fleet chevy silverados for ~15k each barebones and buying in bulk.

If you think about it, trucks are bigger and use more materials than most other cars in their production. Add to it the luxury options that they have been adding, and yeah a fully loaded truck would make sense to be sold for 60k+.

[P1]

Originally Posted by tony20009

Off Topic:
Where is the loop? I don't see a "loop," but I do see two uncommon factors in the situation you shared:

• Your being a 24 year old having had $34K in disposable cash.
• Your finding a buyer willing to spend $24K for a vehicle that (based on your having shared nothing about how it was optioned) should have at most cost something like $15K - $17K (assuming a year ago for the sale).
  • http://www.nadaguides.com/Cars/2004/...SLT-4WD/Values
  • http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...402728588&mmt=[DODGE[RAM25002WD[]][]]&listingId=406158129&Log=0

More Off Topic:
When did pickup trucks start listing for about the same sums as a BMW 3er? Did some marketing/pricing strategy guru determine that truck buyers have the same willingness to spend correspondingly large sums on them as will so-called premium car buyers will on BMWs and competing vehicles?

Yes, I know Mercedes currently plans to offer a pickup in U.S. Call me crazy, but I don't see "Bubba" buying a Benz and hauling hay and deer carcasses as "he" does with his F-150 or Ram. On the other hand, "Biff" may consider one just the thing for pulling his horse trailer or tailgating at Foxfield.

If there's a "loop" for me in your post, it's in what I discovered as a result of having been inspired to check out the Ram website to see what new one costs. I was shocked and surprise to find that a base model Ram SLT lists at $34K, and there are models that at considerably more. Seeing that made me wonder when the hell did pickup trucks became so damned pricey? $34K is easily about ~$10K more than I'd have expected a modestly appointed pickup truck to cost.

It seems I'm not the only one who was surprised. I Googled "why are pickup trucks so expensive" and found this:

• http://www.detroitnews.com/story/bus...cing/23401285/
• http://www.caranddriver.com/columns/...-truck-feature
• http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2013/06...ood-thing.html
• http://www.autobytel.com/top-10-cars...e-cars/trucks/

All the best.

Hello Tony. As you can tell from the picture, my truck was extremely well taken care of. I did not purchase this truck because I needed it to pull heavy horse trailers, fifth wheels, or the like. I purchased it because I liked it. It was a fully optioned Laramie, Sport, 4WD with the Cummins 5.9L diesel engine. Mine was a 2004, but a few years later, Dodge switched to the 6.7L and the trusted 5.9L became a well sought after item. I actually listed mine as the most expensive 3/4 ton on Autotrader at the time. The gentleman from Indiana who purchased it, had been looking for a model just like mine for quite some time. It would be a third vehicle for him, only to pull his Harley trailer that was also black in colour. Since it was 10 years old, most Dodges of this year were probably beat to hell. Mine wasn't. So he was willing to pay the premium I was asking for. Apart from it having no muffler, it was 100% bone stock. Him and his wife drove to Texas, had the vehicle inspected, read through all the service history I had, and handed me the cash and made their merry way back to Indiana where the Dodge still lives today.

Take a look at what a similar 3/4 ton Dodge Cummins Laramie Sport would cost today. No wonder the gently used ones fetch so much money.

[MightyMouseTech]

Get into a 3/4 tonne with options to actually haul something and you are getting near 60k.

Try pricing out a 1 tonne dually with a diesel.

A base model truck is pretty much useless as a truck, it is a glorified grocery getter.

[P1]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

Get into a 3/4 tonne with options to actually haul something and you are getting near 60k.

Try pricing out a 1 tonne dually with a diesel.

Absolutely. I actually just built my old truck on the Dodge website and it was right at $60K. Insane money.

[csu87]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

Get into a 3/4 tonne with options to actually haul something and you are getting near 60k.

Try pricing out a 1 tonne dually with a diesel.

A base model truck is pretty much useless as a truck, it is a glorified grocery getter.

Originally Posted by P1et

Absolutely. I actually just built my old truck on the Dodge website and it was right at $60K. Insane money.

Yeah i was surprised when we went to the dealership to get trucks. A couple of the other PMs and I got loaded 2500s, we got some cheap base 1500s, and a couple 3500s for hauling smaller equipment. Was almost $500k for 10 trucks, but they seem to last a lot longer than they used to if maintained well. My last truck, 2010 2500, lasted over 200k miles and could have kept going.

[DJKapeesh]

Originally Posted by csu87

Yeah i was surprised when we went to the dealership to get trucks. A couple of the other PMs and I got loaded 2500s, we got some cheap base 1500s, and a couple 3500s for hauling smaller equipment. Was almost $500k for 10 trucks, but they seem to last a lot longer than they used to if maintained well. My last truck, 2010 2500, lasted over 200k miles and could have kept going.

I'm learning a lot about trucks here....
but thanks for the info lol

[tony20009]

Originally Posted by shadow191

FWIW, a ton of a pickup's price is profit, they're consistently among the highest margin vehicles. It varies, but a lot of analysts say Ford makes north of $10K in profit on every F150 they sell. It's less for smaller trucks which is why most companies stopped making small trucks.

The lowest profit areas are usually mid sized sedans and compact cars; lots of car companies just make those because they have to. ie, if it weren't for mileage requirements, they would never sell cars like a Chevy Sonic here which basically loses money.

For all I don't know about trucks, that is something I've long known about U.S. automakers' operations/business. Since about 1980s, the truck portion of U.S. big three makers businesses have been used to make viable pretty much everything else they do, short of contracted purchasing.

• http://www.forbes.com/2003/10/06/cx_dl_1006feat.html
• http://www.torquenews.com/1083/key-u...trucks-profits
• http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...es-since-1990/

In short, if one wants to keep Detroit automakers going strong, buy a truck.

All the best.

[tony20009]

Originally Posted by csu87

Funny you picked that picture, as thats my 2500s interior lol. You can still get a pickup for 15k, but it isnt going to be a big truck or a nice truck. I think we get our fleet chevy silverados for ~15k each barebones and buying in bulk.

If you think about it, trucks are bigger and use more materials than most other cars in their production. Add to it the luxury options that they have been adding, and yeah a fully loaded truck would make sense to be sold for 60k+.

Oh, wow. I didn't realize that along with Dodge, Ford or Chevy also use the 2500 designation for a truck they make. That's got to be confusing to someone.

All the best.

[UncleWede]

I overheard a dealer when I was getting some parts for my little GMC; Most truck purchases of the normal consumer base are women.

My GMC was the loss-leader, but I didn't bite. I got "truck" with plastic floors and 5-speed stick for a little over $10K in 2002. Apparently it has A/C other than rolling down the windows, too!

[msjt]

Lol at this thread. These numbers are not only unrealistic, you guys are stressing yourselves out. If you don't live beyond your means, you'll be fine.

[DJKapeesh]

Originally Posted by msjt

Lol at this thread. These numbers are not only unrealistic, you guys are stressing yourselves out. If you don't live beyond your means, you'll be fine.

Good advice but can u explain the reason u believe these to be unrealistic?

[paradoxical3]

Situations are too generic. I bought a 50k car around that age when my profile was kind of similar to some of those setups, but my company paid for a lot of my bills such as my internet, cell phone, etc. That's $300 a month right there I was not responsible for, plus I knew I had stock and a decent future earnings potential. I have met many people through my car (car clubs, events, etc) that have turned into business contacts, friends, my realtor, mortgage broker, etc, etc. It was a bit of a risk but turned out to pay for itself several times over.

[Mr.SugarSkulls]

What in the world....

Again, another useless thread. Based off the logic of some here then, I should barely be jumping into a basic/stripper m4 despite having a residual income of royalties now exceeding well into the 6 figure range not including any new projects/signing bonuses.

I'd be VERY curious to see what most people here drive/earn. Something tells me you're all not sticking to just a "Corolla"

Some of us don't care to vacation. Or buy designer brands, or fancy dinners every week. Don't do drugs, smoke or drink alcohol outside of a special occasion.

And yes I am a college drop out, but school/college does not guarantee anything now a days. Especially money.

Do what makes you happy. Life does not guarantee you tomorrow, so if you're always planning for the future- you'll miss out on living for today.

Then again, what do I know- I'm only a producer/song writer. Left brain activity is not our strong suit

[DJKapeesh]

Originally Posted by Mr.SugarSkulls

What in the world....

Again, another useless thread. Based off the logic of some here then, I should barely be jumping into a basic/stripper m4 despite having a residual income of royalties now exceeding well into the 6 figure range not including any new projects/signing bonuses.

I'd be VERY curious to see what most people here drive/earn. Something tells me you're all not sticking to just a "Corolla"

Some of us don't care to vacation. Or buy designer brands, or fancy dinners every week. Don't do drugs, smoke or drink alcohol outside of a special occasion.

And yes I am a college drop out, but school/college does not guarantee anything now a days. Especially money.

Do what makes you happy. Life does not guarantee you tomorrow, so if you're always planning for the future- you'll miss out on living for today.

Then again, what do I know- I'm only a producer/song writer. Left brain activity is not our strong suit

Everytime I make a thread like this it is interesting to see who will eat Ramen Noodles and drive a 20 year old civic until age 65 where they may or may not be able to retire and buy a 328i

or

Buy a Ferrari and live in their parents house YOLO

But seriously the science behind this is trying to find common ground in today's economics and changing world and compare them to people who successfully retired, own nice cars, and are self made millionaires.

In my situation I do not drink, buy cloths, smoke, do drugs or anything of that nature.... I could bet the amount I save in liquor alone is enough to cover at least a few months of car notes compared to some people lol

On a side note:
I would glady take that stripper M4 my friend

[Mr.SugarSkulls]

Originally Posted by DJKapeesh

Everytime I make a thread like this it is interesting to see who will eat Ramen Noodles and drive a 20 year old civic until age 65 where they may or may not be able to retire and buy a 328i

or

Buy a Ferrari and live in their parents house YOLO

But seriously the science behind this is trying to find common ground in today's economics and changing world and compare them to people who successfully retired, own nice cars, and are self made millionaires.

In my situation I do not drink, buy cloths, smoke, do drugs or anything of that nature.... I could bet the amount I save in liquor alone is enough to cover at least a few months of car notes compared to some people lol

On a side note:
I would glady take that stripper M4 my friend

Well- it's not necessarily so black and white as such.

I can only speak on personal experience, and mind you- I don't come from a rich family whatsoever like you see a lot of 20 year olds benefit from.

I spent the majority of my early 20s saving, and re-investing royalties I earned (going against what most musicians do- which most blow on a lambo or on a drug habit) forcing myself to understand a bigger picture is ahead.

Why? Because I didn't want to settle for a stripped m3 (or m4) now. I wanted something individual, but not something that would leave me car poor (such as a lambo).

Fast forward to today, 9 years busting my tail off, 27 y/o- 4 properties owned (only one has revolving debt still) bought mom an x4, picked up an individual built 2016 m6 for myself, and picking up an i8. Why?
A) BMW lease programs are phenomenal
B) as mentioned above- when you work your ass off outside a typical 9-5, big things can and should happen (in my case royalties well exceeding in the mid 6 figure range- for those that don't know what that means, it means I don't have to lift a finger all year, and that money is still guaranteed).

It's all about finding that middle ground. And I can safely say, I've been above responsible for my age, yet now also having some fun. But if I had listened to others, and followed a path most of my friends did, the "safe route" of school, I'd be a dime a dozen. So I followed passion.

Mind you, I also understand not everyone has the drive to do it and are better off as yes men.

I guess, I'm just trying to derail any "science" you may have picked up from
Here :P

[csu87]

Originally Posted by DJKapeesh

Everytime I make a thread like this it is interesting to see who will eat Ramen Noodles and drive a 20 year old civic until age 65 where they may or may not be able to retire and buy a 328i

or

Buy a Ferrari and live in their parents house YOLO

But seriously the science behind this is trying to find common ground in today's economics and changing world and compare them to people who successfully retired, own nice cars, and are self made millionaires.

In my situation I do not drink, buy cloths, smoke, do drugs or anything of that nature.... I could bet the amount I save in liquor alone is enough to cover at least a few months of car notes compared to some people lol

On a side note:
I would glady take that stripper M4 my friend

Sounds boring... Unfortunately, I could probably pay a 2nd mortgage with the amount I have been spending on that stuff lately

Originally Posted by Mr.SugarSkulls

Well- it's not necessarily so black and white as such.

I can only speak on personal experience, and mind you- I don't come from a rich family whatsoever like you see a lot of 20 year olds benefit from.

I spent the majority of my early 20s saving, and re-investing royalties I earned (going against what most musicians do- which most blow on a lambo or on a drug habit) forcing myself to understand a bigger picture is ahead.

Why? Because I didn't want to settle for a stripped m3 (or m4) now. I wanted something individual, but not something that would leave me car poor (such as a lambo).

Fast forward to today, 9 years busting my tail off, 27 y/o- 4 properties owned (only one has revolving debt still) bought mom an x4, picked up an individual built 2016 m6 for myself, and picking up an i8. Why?
A) BMW lease programs are phenomenal
B) as mentioned above- when you work your ass off outside a typical 9-5, big things can and should happen (in my case royalties well exceeding in the mid 6 figure range- for those that don't know what that means, it means I don't have to lift a finger all year, and that money is still guaranteed).

It's all about finding that middle ground. And I can safely say, I've been above responsible for my age, yet now also having some fun. But if I had listened to others, and followed a path most of my friends did, the "safe route" of school, I'd be a dime a dozen. So I followed passion.

Mind you, I also understand not everyone has the drive to do it and are better off as yes men.

I guess, I'm just trying to derail any "science" you may have picked up from
Here :P

Funny you mention leasing. My parents are fairly wealthy, and have lots of wealthy friends, and all of them lease their exotic cars. The theory is they can all afford to buy one every couple years, and most do, so it doesnt make sense to take a huge hit on depreciation when the lease is less than what the depreciation is.

Now, their daily drivers that they tend to keep for 4-5 yrs vs the 2-3 of the exotics, they always buy them.

Its one of those things that you always hear to not lease cars, but if you dont keep them long, and the lease is less than depreciation, you are better off.

[Mr.SugarSkulls]

Originally Posted by csu87

Sounds boring... Unfortunately, I could probably pay a 2nd mortgage with the amount I have been spending on that stuff lately



Funny you mention leasing. My parents are fairly wealthy, and have lots of wealthy friends, and all of them lease their exotic cars. The theory is they can all afford to buy one every couple years, and most do, so it doesnt make sense to take a huge hit on depreciation when the lease is less than what the depreciation is.

Now, their daily drivers that they tend to keep for 4-5 yrs vs the 2-3 of the exotics, they always buy them.

Its one of those things that you always hear to not lease cars, but if you dont keep them long, and the lease is less than depreciation, you are better off.

Bingo- mind you, I wouldn't consider an x4, m6 or i8 an "exotic" but for my standards, they would be. All of them- 2 year leases.

The work horses- 2008 Toyota Yaris & Ford Explorer- bought upfront, with no intention of letting either go.

[DJKapeesh]

Originally Posted by Mr.SugarSkulls

Bingo- mind you, I wouldn't consider an x4, m6 or i8 an "exotic" but for my standards, they would be. All of them- 2 year leases.

The work horses- 2008 Toyota Yaris & Ford Explorer- bought upfront, with no intention of letting either go.

and here we have an example of some excellent advice

[P1]

Originally Posted by DJKapeesh

and here we have an example of some excellent advice

Curious, what exactly did you consider "excellent advise" in that post? Owning two beaters outright and leasing an M6 for two years?

[DJKapeesh]

Originally Posted by P1et

Curious, what exactly did you consider "excellent advise" in that post? Owning two beaters outright and leasing an M6 for two years?

When buying a car that you don't plan to keep for more than 3 years in most cases depending on the car price and depreciation you may loose less on leading the vehicle.

Was my take away from this conversation