[E92White]

Originally Posted by Sniz

what was wrong w/ Terry's car? I would say nothing if he hit an 11.9.

traction..60fts werent so hot from what I heard..

[Sniz]

Originally Posted by 5soko335i

haha yup



P.s. I think its actually straight flattering that Shiv himself think that the JB3 is so fast that it Has to be on NOS hahahaha!!!

I would say that its hotrod's car that is so fast, not the JB3 in general.

Actually, it was just a tad faster than Clem's 335 on street tires the other week on just tune and dci.

[Sniz]

Originally Posted by E92White

traction..60fts werent so hot from what I heard..

understand that, just wondering what hotrod meant by terry's car not running up to snuff. Everyone had the same traction oppurtunities/conditions, so thats not it.

[mmmotornutz]

This procede, oh e90post, forum is hilarious!! C'mon now guys, the hidden torque that the procede platform offers made it difficult to beat Hotrod's traps due to traction issues.

[ktdw]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

But I still think it is the quickest and fastest 135i, am I not correct?

By 1/100th of 1 MPH...

BTW, for $750 I'll pack up my shit and drive the 6 hours for a dyno. Shiv, can I get the money if I break 400?

[BavarianBullet]

Ouch. I've been down this road 10+ years ago with street/strip cars and "factory freaks". Not accusing anyone because I've not even modified my own 335XI (ok, CDV removed) but I'd like to mention 2 points:

1) When I raced 5.0 mustangs 10+ yrs ago, they were almost all 5MT on the street and street tire traction was horrible (60%+ front end weight bias). Driving ability made a big difference trying to race a car that made 350-600HP with no traction control. The 335 isn't nearly that bad and many have 6AT trans. This means unless you really can't launch (as evidenced by 60ft times) you're not going to out-drive someone else when both have a 6AT.
2) On stangs, modifications usually meant heads, cam, intake, stroker engine, N20, SC or Turbo. Series stuff. The fact that the BMW 335 mod scene here for the moment is basically an untouched engine/turbo and all we're really doing is juggling boost and timing curves should tell you something. i.e. cars at same weight should run about the same, within reason [eg IC, DP, DCI, exhaust, race gas will add 10+ HP per mod based on dyno results we've seen over and over).

At 3700s, that's about 460FWHP to run 117mph. Maybe a little less because of the power curve 335s put down, but that's gotta be about 400WHP to go that fast. Any less and the magic element is "weight". Been there, done that over 10yrs ago. (a friend's "implausible" 11.6 ET ported stock head 5.0mustang [about 3 full sec faster ET than stock]. Easy at 2900lbs!)

I understand where Shiv is coming from and you are now seeing what the difference is between bragging rights/street racing vs sanctioning racing. In one you can do anything and claim anything, in the other you're weighed and inspected and the best (ok, who spends the most $$$) usually win.

If someone wanted to call me out for $750, I had nothing to hide and it was less than 2hrs away, I'd say this weekend or next weekend sounds good to me! But that's just me. I've called people out years ago and never got the chance to run to the ATM either. It sucks.

BB

[Brianbmwboy]

Hey Shiv, just out of curiosity, does our cars fuel system have the ability to support a 50 shot dry kit to make over 400bhp?? If so what is the upper limit of the fuel supply without modification?

[Clem]

I'm not inclined to call BS so quickly. I recently ran a trap of 116.29 on 104 Sunoco with V2 and BMS dual cones being my only mods. I was on street tires, specifically crappy General Exclaims on 19" CSL reps. However, I had a DA of -2400 pulling me down the track. My car is no factory freak. That same day a stock C6 Z06 trapped 130 while a GT-R only trapped 118 (while I was trapping 115+ next to him....OK, behind him.)

Also, Warren's car, like mine, isn't overpowering the tires during the first half of the track unlike the heavy modded guys. Sniz's car makes a ton more power than me and his times were not nearly as good as massive wheelspin and feathering the gas equate to precious time lost. My car just skittered off the line, gets a little chirp on the 1-2 and then is gone. My butt dyno tells me that I lost some low end punch by adding the DCI but more than made up for it at top end. My slips confirm this. All 5 of my runs were 115+ and my car is a manual being shifted by a non-expert. AT cars are obviously more consistant if not faster as well.

Looking at his time slips, it's apparent that his car is an overachiever at the very least. His short times weren't as good as mine. From the 1/8 on, he is very fast.

However, Shiv seems to have a "source" that tells him that it's more than that. This is good stuff. I am subscribed!

[Sniz]

Originally Posted by Clem

I'm not inclined to call BS so quickly. I recently ran a trap of 116.29 on 104 Sunoco with V2 and BMS dual cones being my only mods. I was on street tires, specifically crappy General Exclaims on 19" CSL reps. However, I had a DA of -2400 pulling me down the track. My car is no factory freak. That same day a stock C6 Z06 trapped 130 while a GT-R only trapped 118 (while I was trapping 115+ next to him....OK, behind him.)

Also, Warren's car, like mine, isn't overpowering the tires during the first half of the track unlike the heavy modded guys. Sniz's car makes a ton more power than me and his times were not nearly as good as massive wheelspin and feathering the gas equate to precious time lost. My car just skittered off the line, gets a little chirp on the 1-2 and then is gone. My butt dyno tells me that I lost some low end punch by adding the DCI but more than made up for it at top end. My slips confirm this. All 5 of my runs were 115+ and my car is a manual being shifted by a non-expert. AT cars are obviously more consistant if not faster as well.

Looking at his time slips, it's apparent that his car is an overachiever at the very least. His short times weren't as good as mine. From the 1/8 on, he is very fast.

However, Shiv seems to have a "source" that tells him that it's more than that. This is good stuff. I am subscribed!

this is good stuff huh! I'm not calling BS either, just would love to hear more details on boost levels from everyone running the same map in the JB3, seems a 117+ trap is going to require more boost than 16psi.....but im' not a tuner nor expert!

Just damned impressive to several non-tuners running basically tune only and trapping this high, the n54 is a great engine indeed.

[Turkishexpress]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Warren- inspecting your car is meaningless unless it is done in conjunction with some sort of power verification. If you are willing to meet with me on a road somewhere, why not just accept the $750 and dyno your car in front of independant 3rd parties. Unless I'm mistaken, wont this be the first publicized dyno run of your car?

I stay out of these discussions and mainly enjoyed the back and forth bickering because even though I have gone with a JB3 I have great respect for Shiv from my Evo and Sti days. However, I have always said Shiv had good tunes that were overpriced with results not in line with the likes of Buschur, AMS, TT etc... In any case, what disappoints me the most is the fact that this is the first time I have witnessed a tuner ask for dyno results rather than track results to prove someone's power levels. If the OP dynoes his vehicle and it comes out at 380whp its going to start another stupid thread. Any true enthusiast knows that dyno numbers mean absolutely NOTHING... A tuner of your calibre knows this at heart as well I'm sure. Now I do believe that you should be allowed to inspect his vehicle and he is giving you that opportunity. Not everything is about the money.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Brianbmwboy

Hey Shiv, just out of curiosity, does our cars fuel system have the ability to support a 50 shot dry kit to make over 400bhp?? If so what is the upper limit of the fuel supply without modification?

On an otherwis stock car, a dry 50 shot is perfect. The factory ecu will compensate through closed loop fuel control. Would put a cat running a tune and race gas at around 410-420whp. Very safely. Stock fuel system is good up to at least 450whp.

[Sniz]

looking at hotrod's slips, his car is very repeatable, mostly thanks to the auto tranny i'm thinking. He's picking up 25mph just about every time in the 2nd 1/8th, great stuff. For comparison, on my best run w Clem I picked up almost 28mph in the 2nd 1/8th, but thats a bit skewed I think due to a serious lack of traction until mid of 3rd gear.

Once again, this proves that the auto tranny in the 335 is much much better at the strip.

[Vyruz Reaper]

If this was terry getting anal hurt about the V3 doing better than his JB3 and called a V3 user out, he would have been banned and set on fire.... but yet what shiv is doing by trying to call someone out to "prove" himself is soooo childish, but this thread continues

Im a v3 user, but this is waaaaay beyond professionalism. What are proving shiv? are you trying to make yourself feel better knowing if he doesnt come that he MUST be lying? i dont think so. If i was in his shoes running a JB3, and you called me out like that, i would tell you to go fuck yourself.

Funny, if hotrod was running a V3, shiv would have been promoting his times like a mother fucker, and saying how great it is. go figure.

[5soko]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

How about you come by tonight Shiv, I will take a run on the Vbox, show you a 117mph run(DA permitting), and then you can inspect my car! Doesn't get any more real than that. Why would I care if my car makes good/bad dyno numbers? I just want real usable power. And like I said, this map ran great on my 170mile trip back home, on 91 octane! If you want, you can see all my Vbox/track comparisons, they are right on the number. But from the past responses, I thought I would spare everyone the Vbox/Time slip analysis this time around. Seriously, I will go make the run, you can witness it, and then you can microscopically inspect my car. Would just take a few minutes of my time, and then you can look at the car till your satisfied. Lets get it done so you can satisfy your skepticism. Thats is more "real world" than your dyno numbers which I fear you might "manipulate". J/K. Shiv, I'm sure when you get back to cold, sea level Sacramento, your tune only V3 cars will turn in some spectacular numbers. In fact at sea level, your temps would only have to be in the 56F instead of 46F (all other factors the same) to duplicate our DA conditions. Just make sure they aren't running over 16psi or so, to make it a fair comparison.

So Shiv, i think we are all wanting to kno, you going or what?

[5soko]

Originally Posted by Vyruz Reaper

If this was terry getting anal hurt about the V3 doing better than his JB3 and called a V3 user out, he would have been banned and set on fire.... but yet what shiv is doing by trying to call someone out to "prove" himself is soooo childish, but this thread continues

Im a v3 user, but this is waaaaay beyond professionalism. What are proving shiv? are you trying to make yourself feel better knowing if he doesnt come that he MUST be lying? i dont think so. If i was in his shoes running a JB3, and you called me out like that, i would tell you to go fuck yourself.

Funny, if hotrod was running a V3, shiv would have been promoting his times like a mother fucker, and saying how great it is. go figure.

+1000, if this was another tuner or someone running a JB3, not only would infractions be given out by now but all these posts deleted

[normtrum]

I seem to remember from some very early dyno's that Warren does in fact have a feakishly strong car....somewhere in the area of 290+ for both whp and torque?? (stock of course). I think he was actually pretty close to the advertised crank numbers of a stock 335.....but it's been awhile so I can't be 100% sure.

I think a great test would be for Warren to pull his jb3, have shiv put in a rev II, and see if he's still getting the same type of numbers he just got on the jb3. I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case. It aint going to happen, but it would be interesting to see.

In any case, some pretty impressive runs! I personally don't really care if he was in fact running some nos....still some great runs.

[E92White]

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by Turkishexpress

I stay out of these discussions and mainly enjoyed the back and forth bickering because even though I have gone with a JB3 I have great respect for Shiv from my Evo and Sti days. However, I have always said Shiv had good tunes that were overpriced with results not in line with the likes of Buschur, AMS, TT etc... In any case, what disappoints me the most is the fact that this is the first time I have witnessed a tuner ask for dyno results rather than track results to prove someone's power levels. If the OP dynoes his vehicle and it comes out at 380whp its going to start another stupid thread. Any true enthusiast knows that dyno numbers mean absolutely NOTHING... A tuner of your calibre knows this at heart as well I'm sure. Now I do believe that you should be allowed to inspect his vehicle and he is giving you that opportunity. Not everything is about the money.

+1.

I don't need the money, or hot dogs! (However, if Shiv wants to pay the property tax bills on my houses due on Weds, I will be right out there!). Seriously, all I ask is that Shiv brings me a SEALED can of Sunoco 104, to make things similar. This sounds like FUN, and is something I would actually look forward too!

This is what I propose. Shiv comes by, and if it is in the 40's, I will show him a 12.1 @ 116-117mph run. My car loses a little over 1mph every 10 degrees. So if i is in the 50's, I will show you a 12.2 at 115-116mph traps, and if in the 60's a 12.3 @ 114-115mph trap. Despite Shivs skepticism, I have tested this over and over.

Lets not lose sight that this is about Shiv doubting my 1/4 mile perfomances with my minimal modifications. No where did I claim I was making XXX amount of horsepower. And I restate, I could care less what HP my car makes. And I have no intention of dynoing it, as there are many variables there too. All this would have been moot had Shiv just showed up at the track with more of his "nearly stock" customers running at the same track, same day.

After my runs, if Shiv can find a nitrous bottle, he can keep it, and use it on one of his own cars, since he seem so familiar with the NO2 setups.

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by E92White

traction..60fts werent so hot from what I heard..

I had a hard time getting a 2.1 on the Nittos on the track. On the road outside of the track, I easily got a 1.9 on semi moist surfaces! A 1.85 sec 60' on the track could have gotten me an 11 second time slip!

[E92White]

I believe it..happened to me recently too..I pulled a 1.9 as the traction/conditions were poor..then ran again and pulled a 2.3 on nitto 555rs..

[Sniz]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

I had a hard time getting a 2.1 on the Nittos on the track. On the road outside of the track, I easily got a 1.9 on semi moist surfaces! A 1.85 sec 60' on the track could have gotten me an 11 second time slip!

were you able to do a full burnout w/ both tires? You dont have a LSD right?

[stressdoc]

It would be interesting to see what Warren's car would do with a Procede. What needs to be done is a proper, unbiased scientific on-track comparison -- for those of you for whom the sun rises and sets based on tenths of a second in the 1/4 mile.

The problem with this thread is the OP set out with the goal of tune comparison. That is bound to initiate tuner wars every time. I don't know why you all get sucked into this crap.

Shiv claims dry shot based on what someone told him + the unusual results. I doubt that this could be verified one way or the other, so it is pointless to argue about.

Regardless, please do your best to keep discussion to helpful information. This reminds me of the ugly side of fans at football games sometimes.