[335iheLLraiseR]

Originally Posted by snosk8tr123

Ever consider making them overseas?

Cue the $200 eBay downpipes.

[snosk8tr123]

Originally Posted by 335iheLLraiseR

Cue the $200 eBay downpipes.

That was directed towards AR, who said that these pipes are being sold below AR's cost

[AlpineG05]

they look ok, not AR quality but decent.

[Scimitar335i]

These are probably VK quality minus the overhead...

[Jonny550]

Originally Posted by Scimitar335i

These are probably VK quality minus the overhead...

[jachien]

I do not think the quality of the material should be in question... More the craftsmanship (design and welds) of the downpipes themselves. If they were Inconnel that'd be a different story.. and different price as well..

Design is an important factor. Ive installed pretty much every brand of downpipes out there and fit (even a few degrees) helps installation a ton. If Donald-335i said they fit better than Riss Racing downpipes, someone should really consider these downpipes them...

[shiggy]

"pipe is a pipe".....that may be true but its all about the flanges and welds!
in their ad it states "TIG" welds...which actually stands for "Tough Indie Glue"

[ar design]

Originally Posted by shiggy

"pipe is a pipe".....that may be true but its all about the flanges, fitup, manufacturer backing and support, and backpurged welds!
in their ad it states "TIG" welds...which actually stands for "Tough Indie Glue"

Also fixed a few things for you

[ar design]

Originally Posted by Prowess Symphony

I dont understand why dp's or especially fmics are more expensive on bmws anyway? Or non luxury cars a fmic is $300, if that. Go look at a mustang forum and how cheap that stuff is. Do our fmic really work $700s better then $300 mustang ones!?

Link? I'd love to see a HQ IC at $300. I've used the Chinese ones - and they SUCK.

[jlstyle]

Originally Posted by ar design

Link? I'd love to see a HQ IC at $300. I've used the Chinese ones - and they SUCK.

Your stuff looks great but no need to bash on other manufacturer's stuff even if it's true.
Your stuff will speak for itself.

[D.yi]

Originally Posted by jlstyle

Your stuff looks great but no need to bash on other manufacturer's stuff even if it's true.
Your stuff will speak for itself.

+1... AR likes to talk about how bad other peoples things are... let your product talk not your mouth... i know you guys make quality products dont detract from it by bashing on other products no matter how terrible their quality is.

[R1000K3]

Raceland is a European Belgium company that has made more than a few downpipes for a lot of cars. Their DP's for the 335 is a superior deal if one wants to get rid of the restrictive stock DP's without spending a lot of money. http://www.raceland.nl/eshop/catalog/ Even stock DP's performs quite well with JB3 and the Procede, so any non catted 2.5" DP will work to increase power and prevent LIMP.

Still, I feel most comfortable using the superior flow and workmanship of AR 3” DP's. Meth, upgraded turbos etc. is waiting around the corner for power freaks and then it is good to be prepared, and having optimal performances today whatever happens in the future.

Thumbs up for the first one trying Raceland DP's !

[SECOND2NONE]

Originally Posted by ar design

I LOL'd. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. My costs are above both the sale price of the eBay downpipes and the VK. And there is a reason for it. At some point I am really hoping people are going to get over this ridiculous "BMW Tax" myth. Feel free to stop by the shop if you're local - I'll show you our downpipes, the competitions, and how we do things very, very differently here. We've already posted plenty of pictures, no need to re-make my point for the 1,000th time. If you want to buy a set, I certainly am not going to stop you. If anyone believes they are buying the exact same thing, its no skin off my back

Looks like someones product got backdoored for sure, though.

Even though i would choose your design any day.. i still belive in the bmw tax.. people do get out of hand with prices these days.. even back in the days... especially the dealer and i have many examples

vorsteiner... why the hell should a front lip cost 800.... and a rear diffuser that doesnt even attach to the bumper... you either have to use 3m tape or mold it.. just because of so called fitment?? You can get a full mtech kit for a 5 series at the dealer for 1400 for a e60.. and after market companies are sellling them for 1300. Almost 20k for the stage 1 e46 turbo kit because they were the only people availble to go turbo... Everybody kept saying because hpf kit are the best and a i agree.. eventually they lowered the price to 13500.. which is more reasonable and should have been done a long time ago.

when you compare the market of stuff to the lower priced cars... for example a maxima, a civic.. i know there are other companies the sell products as great a quality as these companies for bmw, but dont charge as much

The ultimate reason why i stick to quality and name brand products is becuase of resale value and also the hastle.. ive been through the cheap phase and you always end up spending more, and you can always get a good portion of what you paid for the product becuase people see it as a great great opportunity to get a expensive item at a cheap price

even when you go to some mechanics.. they over charge you just for driving a bmw.... insurance companies charge you way more when you drive a bmw.. even more then a benz. Despite what i have stated i feel its natural to have to spend more when you drive a 30-40k car..... whats the point of buying cheap little 2-300 dollars parts.... but that doesnt mean everybody should over price...( not to say you do.. just in general)

[cn555ic]

Originally Posted by SECOND2NONE

Even though i would choose your design any day.. i still belive in the bmw tax.. people do get out of hand with prices these days.. even back in the days... especially the dealer and i have many examples

vorsteiner... why the hell should a front lip cost 800.... and a rear diffuser that doesnt even attach to the bumper... you either have to use 3m tape or mold it.. just because of so called fitment?? You can get a full mtech kit for a 5 series at the dealer for 1400 for a e60.. and after market companies are sellling them for 1300. Almost 20k for the stage 1 e46 turbo kit because they were the only people availble to go turbo... Everybody kept saying because hpf kit are the best and a i agree.. eventually they lowered the price to 13500.. which is more reasonable and should have been done a long time ago.

when you compare the market of stuff to the lower priced cars... for example a maxima, a civic.. i know there are other companies the sell products as great a quality as these companies for bmw, but dont charge as much

The ultimate reason why i stick to quality and name brand products is becuase of resale value and also the hastle.. ive been through the cheap phase and you always end up spending more, and you can always get a good portion of what you paid for the product becuase people see it as a great great opportunity to get a expensive item at a cheap price

even when you go to some mechanics.. they over charge you just for driving a bmw.... insurance companies charge you way more when you drive a bmw.. even more then a benz. Despite what i have stated i feel its natural to have to spend more when you drive a 30-40k car..... whats the point of buying cheap little 2-300 dollars parts.... but that doesnt mean everybody should over price...( not to say you do.. just in general)

recently got an oil change and I was quoted a price, when I went back to get the oil change with my oil filter that I bought, the mechanic was like...that price should be higher working on these cars!!! I was like WTF...its the same thing you do if it was a Honda or Mazda...nothing different....It was funny though that he said these cars cost more to change oil...I told him that was retarded, but if your implying that it needs more oil than the normal car, then your right, but the mechanical side of taking out oil and replacing filter should be the same!! haha...As for quality of parts, re-sale value is very important thats for sure when it comes to a reputable source that for...I have been looking for some used AR DP's, and there are none to be found for a while..That must say something....I have been doing a search for DPs for a while, looking at various DPs in person, I have to say that AR's DPs although it cost a little more than others, are indeed the best I have seen...As for visual appeal its nice, fitment is perfect from what my installer told me, and he has installed every brand of DPs made for our cars to date...There has to be some merit to a product if there hasn't been one negative thread about it to date....

[ar design]

Originally Posted by jlstyle

Your stuff looks great but no need to bash on other manufacturer's stuff even if it's true.
Your stuff will speak for itself.

Not bashing a specific vendor - just commenting on a bad personal experience with using substandard parts on our shop drag car.

Originally Posted by D.yi

+1... AR likes to talk about how bad other peoples things are... let your product talk not your mouth... i know you guys make quality products dont detract from it by bashing on other products no matter how terrible their quality is.

Again, commenting on personal experiences with parts - not even BMW related. We don't even make a FMIC. Not sure why everyone is so defensive of a vendor that I have not even named, on a product we don't even make?!

Originally Posted by SECOND2NONE

Even though i would choose your design any day.. i still belive in the bmw tax.. people do get out of hand with prices these days..

If you want to believe that, you are more than welcome to - I certainly can't stop you. FWIW, take a look at QUALITY products for Hondas, or any other brand of car for that matter. You don't see places like Full-Race and AMS etc putting out parts dirt cheap - why? Because building quality products takes both time, effort, and a quality materials - none of which come cheaply.

Ask any person that has actually been to our shop and met me- we are a small company, and we all work very hard to put out quality products. Nobody is getting rich extorting wealthy BMW owners, LOL. Don't believe me? Stop by and see for yourself.

[SECOND2NONE]

Originally Posted by ar design

Not bashing a specific vendor - just commenting on a bad personal experience with using substandard parts on our shop drag car.



Again, commenting on personal experiences with parts - not even BMW related. We don't even make a FMIC. Not sure why everyone is so defensive of a vendor that I have not even named, on a product we don't even make?!



If you want to believe that, you are more than welcome to - I certainly can't stop you. FWIW, take a look at QUALITY products for Hondas, or any other brand of car for that matter. You don't see places like Full-Race and AMS etc putting out parts dirt cheap - why? Because building quality products takes both time, effort, and a quality materials - none of which come cheaply.

Ask any person that has actually been to our shop and met me- we are a small company, and we all work very hard to put out quality products. Nobody is getting rich extorting wealthy BMW owners, LOL. Don't believe me? Stop by and see for yourself.

NO DOUBT QUAILTY COST MONEY.. BUT THERE ARE THE LIMITS.. OVERPRICING IS THE PROBLEM FOR EXAMPLE...

AMS FMIC - $800 AA FMIC- $1100-$1300(NOT TO SURE)
BMS JB3- $579 PROCEDE- $1100(NOT TO SURE)

THIS LIST CAN GO ON ON.... AND NONE OF THE COMPANIES IVE STATED IS IS B***S***... BUT YET SOME ARE RESONABLE AND SOME ARE OVER PRICED

PS. MY PRICING MAYBE A LITTLE OFF.. I WILL GO FIND OFFICAL PPRICING AFTER I COMEBACK FROM THE STORE

[PaulBailey@ltbmw]

JackFlash!
Nice work. Come in, post this thread. . . and the controversy begins!

[AlpineG05]

someone should jump on these so we can find out if they are any good.

[M3SWEETNESS]

I've never really liked the BMW tax as well, Ex- Ar Down pipes made with great craftsmanship and quality materials.... ok I get it 700.00 for these. Now on my previous car SRT-4 I got a 750.00 exhaust..... now lets not get to far ahead of our self's. This exhaust system has the same excellent craftsmanship and quality materials but has more materials to build it. Granted you have more welds but 5 or so more welds can't sensibly off set the cost of less materials. I do understand it takes multiple cuts and angles to piece this product together 21 or so pieces but again the amount of actual material being used is far less than the exhaust, thus should cost less to obtain. Ok the flanges then if their CNCed sure that's going to cost a decent amount but I know your not just buying 2 flanges at a time, thus you get a nice discount from buying in bulk. Still I don't see this off setting the cheaper price of build material for the product. Basically I'm looking for that factor as to why such a small (material wise) product would ever cost 700.00. When I know and I know you know it cost no where near that to make. Just in case it for some odd reason it does, maybe AR should start looking into another manufacture.

Example
MPX Exhaust 750.00 ( we can all agree there's a lot more material being used)

The TIG welding


AR downpipes 700.00


I'd have to say I don't see much of a difference in materials or craftsmanship. So why the 700 price tag?

[ar design]

Originally Posted by 335SWEETNESS

I've never really liked the BMW tax as well, Ex- Ar Down pipes made with great craftsmanship and quality materials.... ok I get it 700.00 for these. Now on my previous car SRT-4 I got a 750.00 exhaust..... now lets not get to far ahead of our self's. This exhaust system has the same excellent craftsmanship and quality materials but has more materials to build it. Granted you have more welds but 5 or so more welds can't sensibly off set the cost of less materials. I do understand it takes multiple cuts and angles to piece this product together 21 or so pieces but again the amount of actual material being used is far less than the exhaust, thus should cost less to obtain. Ok the flanges then if their CNCed sure that's going to cost a decent amount but I know your not just buying 2 flanges at a time, thus you get a nice discount from buying in bulk. Still I don't see this off setting the cheaper price of build material for the product. Basically I'm looking for that factor as to why such a small (material wise) product would ever cost 700.00. When I know and I know you know it cost no where near that to make. Just in case it for some odd reason it does, maybe AR should start looking into another manufacture.

Example
MPX Exhaust 750.00 ( we can all agree there's a lot more material being used)

The TIG welding


AR downpipes 700.00


I'd have to say I don't see much of a difference in materials or craftsmanship. So why the 700 price tag?

Sorry, but you're comparing apples to oranges. That system is 20x easier to build than 335i downpipes. Most of it is mandrel bent - which means there is a fraction of the labor. And we can't really switch manufs - because as stated over and over again, they are built in house - not in China We never will be able to compete price wise with Chinese products (for starters, we don't pay 3rd world level wages) - but I feel pretty confident in saying we blow them away in quality and performance, 100% of the time. FWIW there are also vast differences in our welding processes.

I'm out, its turkey time!!

[cn555ic]

Here is my take on this...Although everyone is trying to get the best deal for their money, there are many options here that are cheaper and still do the same thing...Its up to the individual to choose the option and price point that fits them the most....Although AR DPs are probably the most expensive right now, they are not putting a gun to your head and forcing you to buy them, they made a product which cost XX amount and people are still buying them....Could they lower the price point? Probably, but to them they feel their product is superior to others and should warrant the additional cost...If the price is a factor, we as consumers can choose from a whole bunch of others DPs like UR, Macht Shnells, Tikel (not sure if thats spelled correctly), Vk, Racelands, RR, which are all cheaper...Why beat a dead horse on the pricing of AR DPs!! Its not going to change.....I for one have done some research and actually waited to see each of the DPs in person (except for the Tikel one) before I made my decision on which to go with...It was between the AR's and Macht Shnells, but from my installer which has done a ton of DP install (over 50), he recommended AR's for fitment, so thats what I bought...I did my research and ultimately went with the ARs, even though there were options that were cheaper for my pocket....I am anxiously awaiting my shipment of the DPs...when I get them you will probably hear another thread about how good they are...bla bla bla...but from all the searches that I have done on the AR DPs, I have yet to find one bad thing about them..

[M3SWEETNESS]

Originally Posted by ar design

Sorry, but you're comparing apples to oranges. That system is 20x easier to build than 335i downpipes. Most of it is mandrel bent - which means there is a fraction of the labor. And we can't really switch manufs - because as stated over and over again, they are built in house - not in China We never will be able to compete price wise with Chinese products (for starters, we don't pay 3rd world level wages) - but I feel pretty confident in saying we blow them away in quality and performance, 100% of the time. FWIW there are also vast differences in our welding processes.

I'm out, its turkey time!!

And as I stated the parts of these two different products are about the same number. I also stated I understand there are a lot of cuts to the down pipes, small pieces welded together to complete the product. I imagine it took some serious R&D to find the measurements to complete the product. But once you know what needs to be produced as far as the pieces, you've pretty much got a ride down hill. I'm not some kid that thinks you can just weld these together and bam it's done. I've done TIG welding and I know it take time and skill to complete. So I understand there's some labor involved but there's almost the same number of welds being done. So as far as your comment about the mandrel bending making the exhaust easier to build maybe a little but there's still cuts and measurements being done. Close to the same number being done on the down pipes. As far as Modern Performance manufacturing the exhaust out of the U.S. At the given time I bought my exhaust, it was built right here in the good old USA. Now if they have changed and it now coming from out of the U.S. I have no idea. I do know the price is still the same as the day I bought it. I also feel pretty confident in saying that your not blowing anything away. Remember I owned this exhaust seen the quality of it’s build. From what I’ve seen on your downpipes their on the same level, quality wise. Performance wise, that's apples to oranges lol.