[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by 4wheelpilot

The obsession (distorted emphasis and resultant distraction) with the price difference between the JB3 and Procede is borderline ridiculous!

Let's get this out of the way...every dollar is important, especially in these very difficult economic times.

BUT we should "see the forest throught the trees".
We are talking about "a few dollars" difference between tunes that will alter the electronics and function of our $50,000+ BMWs. The car that most of us use daily and to transport our loved ones from point A to point B.

What does each member consider the most important characterisitics of a tune?
Some are universal...increased performance, safety, etc.
Other characteristics will fall in different orders. for different owners.

NO reviewer is totally objective.
Every reviewer will have different areas of expertise, experience, perspectives and focus.
So every member should be smart enough to know that EVERY review should be put in perspective.

I look forward to the OP's review.
After he shares his results with us, I will put them "in perspective".

You must be biased.

[lawdude]

Looked back in after being gone for awhile. More of the same. Reminds me of the Star Trek episode where two of the same species couldn't get along because one was black on the right side and white on the left, and the other was black/left side and white/right.

[pcmike]

I resent that.

Originally Posted by ArmyBimmerDude

The price tag is the only thing obvious to most JB owners. I do agree with you though, these reviews hold no weight to most people anymore.

[cn555ic]

Originally Posted by ArmyBimmerDude

The price tag is the only thing obvious to most JB owners. I do agree with you though, these reviews hold no weight to most people anymore.

Its funny a while back that the price was definitely the deciding factor of the tune coupled with "who needs to adjust and fine tune it, install it and forget about it idealism" My how things have changed now...I think Junk although he has been with Procede tune, is giving a fair assessment of his needs, although it may seem biased towards one camp, I think he has done a fair comparison so far....I wait to see the following updates on his review

[Sparky66]

Originally Posted by Terrance28

That is not necessarily true because if you stick to BMS recommendations to run each map up to map7 there should be no codes thrown. But not everybody is gonna follow those recommendations so thats why the BT is offered just in case.

Terrance,
At the risk of throwing a shadow code, can you guarantee that those running
maps 5-7 will never face this issue??...........my guess is "no". So having a means of erasing any tuner related codes just about makes the BT Tool mandatory for any JB3 owner pushing their car at the extreme end.

Originally Posted by Terrance28

The reality is you guys think the proceed is just as good as the BT tool when its not even close.

I never once even said that, but we are dealing with a tune here and in the Procede's defense, one can look at and reset any of the tune related codes............something the JB3 cannot do on it's own.
Remember we are reviewing individual tunes here and how they stand on their own feet. Any other makers add-ons that wasn't delivered by the tuner but marketed as their own feature is "weak sauce" in my book.

[JoeyFiasco]

Originally Posted by cn555ic

Its funny a while back that the price was definitely the deciding factor of the tune coupled with "who needs to adjust and fine tune it, install it and forget about it idealism" My how things have changed now...I think Junk although he has been with Procede tune, is giving a fair assessment of his needs, although it may seem biased towards one camp, I think he has done a fair comparison so far....I wait to see the following updates on his review

+1 I also think Junk is being fair, people are just being hypersensitive to comments. He has commended both tunes, the procede just better fit HIS needs. These discussions always turn into a fight by the faithful for no reason.

[Chrisrw]

Why do I get the feeling I'm going to watch a video of Shiv and Mike fighting with sticks on Youtube in a few days...?

Also, where can you get a BT tool for 120? I just cant seem to find one for that price. Even the one in Mike's sig is listed at just south of $300...

[JoeyFiasco]

Originally Posted by Chrisrw

Why do I get the feeling I'm going to watch a video of Shiv and Mike fighting with sticks on Youtube in a few days...?

Also, where can you get a BT tool for 120? I just cant seem to find one for that price. Even the one in Mike's sig is listed at just south of $300...

nice, well since it's on youtube neither side can claim it as a feature or bloatware that's increasing the price of their product.

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by Chrisrw

Why do I get the feeling I'm going to watch a video of Shiv and Mike fighting with sticks on Youtube in a few days...?

Also, where can you get a BT tool for 120? I just cant seem to find one for that price. Even the one in Mike's sig is listed at just south of $300...

The 120 number is used as thats how much the BT tool costs if you buy it with a JB3. BMS has made a deal with BT to produce a special version (BT Basic) for sale with the JB3. This is only available through authorized BMS dealers and cannot be purchased separately, even from BT direct.

As for the You-tube fighting I think I rather just have a beer with Shiv but since I am Canadian we are really good with hockey sticks so my money would be on me You guys really blow our discussions way out of proportions. If I read the comments and took them seriously I would believe that Shiv and I are in some kind of battle royal LOL

Mike

[cn555ic]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

The 120 number is used as thats how much the BT tool costs if you buy it with a JB3. BMS has made a deal with BT to produce a special version (BT Basic) for sale with the JB3. This is only available through authorized BMS dealers and cannot be purchased separately, even from BT direct.

As for the You-tube fighting I think I rather just have a beer with Shiv but since I am Canadian we are really good with hockey sticks so my money would be on me You guys really blow our discussions way out of proportions. If I read the comments and took them seriously I would believe that Shiv and I are in some kind of battle royal LOL

Mike

YOu and Shiv are like a married couple bickering at each other that is married for over 20 years!! lol

[ianthegreat]

Originally Posted by Sparky66

Terrance,
At the risk of throwing a shadow code, can you guarantee that those running
maps 5-7 will never face this issue??...........my guess is "no". So having a means of erasing any tuner related codes just about makes the BT Tool mandatory for any JB3 owner pushing their car at the extreme end.

If you think maps 5-7 are extreme you are mistaken my friend.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by Sparky66

Since when was the use of the BT Tool necessary or even detrimental to the operation of the Procede as a tune?
It is neither needed nor critical to it's use.
If then one would want to check other system parameters like transmission, airbag, stability control, power steering etc... then I'd consider the BT Tools value. As such the Procede doesn't need it to clear any hidden tuner codes as it's implemented in its hardware/software via Canbus.

The fact of the matter is that once you run the higher maps(5-7), JB3 makes no promise that you won't throw any codes and relies heavily on the use of the Bavarian Technic Tool to clear any codes.
To be fair, by adding the BT Tool as a positive review with regards to the JB3, is plain misleading as it wasn't designed and made by Burger Motorsport.

Neither is a BT tool for the the Jb3...

Unless you like to exceede RECOMmENDED maps...

Map 3 is the RECOMMENDED MAP for those watching.<--- Its the map the comes with the tune already set and ready to run.

For people that like to "adjust" and "play" and "exceed" you can change to map 5+, you can buy BT tools, you can get delimiters, blah blah.... Notice how im talking about an out of the box tune? and not a tune, changed? Thanks.

*****

Directed towards everyone else:

This whole thread gets off course for the most retarded things.

Nobody really gives a damn how much the board costs, as long as the car drives how they like it.

Nobody cares about logging on basic maps for either tune, so the BT tool is unnecessary.

The average joe doesnt need delimiters because we all follow the speed limit right?

Everyone gets stuck on the dumbest things let him just finish the review so we can move on.

This review should be about either tunes out of the BOX, which no other changes on the outside. That means recommended maps, unchanged, and valid for the modifcations for the car.

[Willizm]

I want to give the OP the benefit of the doubt. I have a JB3 1.4 and love it. I would totally do an independent review of the vishnu v4 vs JB3 1.4. If the vishnu is a better product, then so be it. If the JB3 is a better product then so be it. If I were to buy a vishnu v4 would everyone jump on me and say I'm biased toward the JB3 just because I had it for some time? Vishnu, send me a loaner v4 and i'll upgrade my JB3 to a 2.0. I'll do an honest comparison from a drivers prospective. Which ever is smoother, gives the best power and performance would get my nod.

[pcmike]

Willizm,

That's what I'm already in the pipeline to be doing.

[ianthegreat]

Originally Posted by Willizm

I want to give the OP the benefit of the doubt. I have a JB3 1.4 and love it. I would totally do an independent review of the vishnu v4 vs JB3 1.4. If the vishnu is a better product, then so be it. If the JB3 is a better product then so be it. If I were to buy a vishnu v4 would everyone jump on me and say I'm biased toward the JB3 just because I had it for some time? Vishnu, send me a loaner v4 and i'll upgrade my JB3 to a 2.0. I'll do an honest comparison from a drivers prospective. Which ever is smoother, gives the best power and performance would get my nod.

You bought a JB3 and 'have loved it', you are not impartial.

[ianthegreat]

Originally Posted by pcmike

Willizm,

That's what I'm already in the pipeline to be doing.

You are Definitely not impartial. Capatalize the D.

[Chrisrw]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

As for the You-tube fighting I think I rather just have a beer with Shiv but since I am Canadian we are really good with hockey sticks so my money would be on me You guys really blow our discussions way out of proportions. If I read the comments and took them seriously I would believe that Shiv and I are in some kind of battle royal LOL

Mike

I'm just poking fun, but this does give me a chance to post a completely random comment about our Canadian Hockey victory!!! YAHOO! still jacked about that!

Looking forward to reading the rest of this as I've gotta choose pretty soon between a vishnu or JB... I need some "Fast"

[ArizSun21]

Maybe I can put a stop to this retarded back and forth about being "impartial".

Can anyone in this forum say that they are truly "impartial" to anything? NO? Ok then stop the pointless arguments! Same goes for any magazine, news article, TV show or anything from any source.

Let's get back to the review and let the readers of the forum decide what is best for their car.

Oh by the way I am partial to the V4, because I have never tried the JB tune.

"Flame suit on"

[StartupJunkie]

Well guys ... just to answer more questions about my biasness:
#1 - I could have hidden my signature, but why?
#2 - I could have created a new account with no history, but why?

The main reason why I did this (and everyone else can do the same - both vendors offer money back guarantees) is that not enough people are doing the comparison and posting their results and feedback.

If I find one product to be more to my liking I can switch ... in all honesty, this is not really that much money considering how much I've spent everywhere else (Las Vegas, Macau, Tokyo ...) ... good thing the wife doesn't read this forum!!

I am also a customer of Mike's ... I've bought a few things from him in the past. He's always provided great service, very responsive and pro-active communicator. I've always appreciated those aspects.

So continuing on ... I'll make a new thread for Part 2, since this one is getting a bit cluttered.

More to come shortly ...

Junk

[jippii ensio]

Originally Posted by StartupJunkie

In order to get what I need from the JB3 platform, I needed to order the following components:

So you ordered from Mike since you've ordered from him before and you can return them at will and get your money back?

[pcmike]

Just so everyone is aware.. the BT cables (whether used or not) are NOT returnable, ever. So if you plan on getting a JB3 and comparing it to a V4.. keep in mind that that ever so tempting warranty "insurance policy" that is being discounted to $120 is completely not returnable and if you do return the JB3 the discount you received on the BT cable is reversed. For example, if you order a JB3 2.0 PnP + 1VIN BT cable for $699 and decide to return the JB3 within the 14 day window you will: #1) be unable to return the BT cable for any sort of refund and #2) you will only get back $699-$287=$412 for your $579 JB3 2.0. Just something to keep in mind as its not until you read the "terms and conditions" that you find this information out.

[Terrance28]

Originally Posted by Sparky66

Terrance,
At the risk of throwing a shadow code, can you guarantee that those running
maps 5-7 will never face this issue??...........my guess is "no". So having a means of erasing any tuner related codes just about makes the BT Tool mandatory for any JB3 owner pushing their car at the extreme end.



I never once even said that, but we are dealing with a tune here and in the Procede's defense, one can look at and reset any of the tune related codes............something the JB3 cannot do on it's own.
Remember we are reviewing individual tunes here and how they stand on their own feet. Any other makers add-ons that wasn't delivered by the tuner but marketed as their own feature is "weak sauce" in my book.

Sparky I respect what you are saying and to be on the safe side yes a BT tool is such a usefull tool to have. Also map5-7 is not that extreme at all just for your fyi. I use to push map7 stock with no issues no codes(try that with stage 3 on the proceed and see what happens)But the BT tool is something everyone of us should have because the reality is, while the proceed does do alot of things it still cannot match what the Bt tool can do. So if thats the case and the jb3 needs the BT tool thats fine. Because the BT tool is still a a very useful tool to have period.