[Tiago@VRSF]

That design looks pretty awkward.

I'm not trying to be a negative nancy but in theory that intercooler would cool better, but it'd also decrease throttle response, cause more lag and increase in pressure drop. The larger the internal area (end tanks & double core) the slower the compressed air will travel.

[TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management]

Originally Posted by tvieira24

That design looks pretty awkward.

I'm not trying to be a negative nancy but in theory that intercooler would cool better, but it'd also decrease throttle response, cause more lag and increase in pressure drop. The larger the internal area (end tanks & double core) the slower the compressed air will travel.

No offense Nancy but... pretty awkward made 22hp, spooled the turbos quicker and yeah it slowed the air down(the longer the air is in the intercooler the more heat is dissipated) but that dropped AITS about 55 degrees There goes "YOUR" theory

[335iheLLraiseR]

do i hear a GB around the high 7s?

[bullmrkt]

need more photos! and a GB!

[TheAcAvenger]

bumpity bump for pictures and GB

[jonm42]

Originally Posted by TheAcAvenger

bumpity bump for pictures and GB

What HE (and others) said!

[bullmrkt]

yep lets start selling these things already!

[ohsnap]

this is still a direct bolt on, no cutting, etc? ive read there were some minor adjustments with other ic's in regards to the tight fit (cutting involved). would definately be interested if this is the case. also, will there be any package deals when the attache is released?

[e90AW335i]

Originally Posted by ohsnap

this is still a direct bolt on, no cutting, etc? ive read there were some minor adjustments with other ic's in regards to the tight fit (cutting involved). would definately be interested if this is the case. also, will there be any package deals when the attache is released?

I am not sure about the cutting, but they have told me that they would probably do some package deals....

[ohsnap]

Originally Posted by kyleh4852

I am not sure about the cutting, but they have told me that they would probably do some package deals....

right on, thanks kyle. look forward to a package deal

[uberschnell]

Can this be installed without removing the bumper cover?

Also, count me in on a GB.

[TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management]

Originally Posted by Magna3

Can this be installed without removing the bumper cover?

Also, count me in on a GB.

yes this can be installed without removing the bumper cover Its also a direct bolt on no cutting required. the only permanent modification is the use of new clamps.
a bunch of intercoolers are getting fabbed up right now, email or call Helix to get on a list or for any information.

[Garrett]

Originally Posted by TTurboBullett

No offense Nancy but... pretty awkward made 22hp, spooled the turbos quicker and yeah it slowed the air down(the longer the air is in the intercooler the more heat is dissipated) but that dropped AITS about 55 degrees There goes "YOUR" theory

Can you post your dyno pics a little larger than a postage stamp, plz...! It's hard to study or even read.

[uberschnell]

Bump, because damn it, I'm not gonna pay a lot for this muffler,,,err inter-cooler.

[Brian GT PRO]

Yes, I too would like a better look at the actual dyno sheet. I will attest to the theory that heatsoak on the 335 is terrible, and I agree with Alex's findings on the heat rise on the stock I/C, I've seen it happen first hand on our dyno with our company E92.

[Sniz]

Helix Intercooler is . I've been running mine for the past few months w/ not problems. I did the install myself on rhino ramps in a few hrs working slow.

Car runs great. I have noticed a drop in psi w/ my V2 due to the lower temps produced by the intercooler. I wasn't sure if I was still making the same power (it sure felt like it) so I went to the dyno and sure enough the power was still there but I was boosting a few psi lower than other V2 cars. With a new intercooler tune I'm set for more, safer power.

Get yours when they are ready.

/end sales pitch from satisfied customer

[TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management]

Originally Posted by Brian GT PRO

Yes, I too would like a better look at the actual dyno sheet. I will attest to the theory that heatsoak on the 335 is terrible, and I agree with Alex's findings on the heat rise on the stock I/C, I've seen it happen first hand on our dyno with our company E92.

[IMG][/IMG]

[judec]

have U guys measured the pressure drop? I've seen interesting data on Spearco IC and it raised my attention. Lemme quote an interesting paragraph posted on gnttype.org, related to pressure drop (read the whole article about IC here):

Pressure Drop
Another aspect of intercoolers to be considered is pressure drop. The pressure read by a boost gauge is the pressure in the intake manifold. It is not the same as the pressure that the turbocharger itself puts out. To get a fluid, such as air, to flow there must be a difference in pressure from one end to the other. Consider a straw that is sitting on the table. It doesn't having anything moving through it until you pick it up, stick it in your mouth, and change the pressure at one end (either by blowing or sucking). In the same way the turbo outlet pressure is higher than the intake manifold pressure, and will always be higher than the intake pressure, because there must be a pressure difference for the air to move.

The difference in pressure required for a given amount of air to move from turbo to intake manifold is an indication of the hydraulic restriction of the intercooler, the up pipe, and the throttle body. Let's say you are trying to move 255 gram/sec of air through a stock intercooler, up pipe, and throttle body and there is a 4 psi difference that is pushing it along (I'm just making up numbers here). If your boost gauge reads 15 psi, that means the turbo is actually putting up 19 psi. Now you buy a PT-70 and slap on some Champion heads. Now you are moving 450 gm/sec of air. At 15 psi boost in the intake manifold the turbo now has to put up 23 psi, because the pressure drop required to get the higher air flow is now 8 psi instead of the 4 that we had before. More flow with the same equipment means higher pressure drop. So we put on a new front mount intercooler. It has a lower pressure drop, pressure drop is now 4 psi, so the turbo is putting up 19 psi again. Now we add the 65 mm throttle body and the pressure drop is now 3 psi. Then we add the 2.5" up pipe, and it drops to 2.5 psi. Now to make 15 psi boost the turbo only has to put up 17.5 psi. The difference in turbo outlet temperature between 23 psi and 17.5 psi is about 40 deg (assuming a constant efficiency)! So you can see how just by reducing the pressure drop we can lower the temperatures while still running the same amount of boost.

I have seen some misunderstandings regarding intercooler pressure drop and how it relates to heat transfer. For example, one vendor's catalog implies that if you had little or no pressure drop then you would have no heat transfer. This is incorrect. Pressure drop and heat transfer are relatively independent, you can have good heat transfer in an intercooler that has a small pressure drop if it is designed correctly. It is easier to have good heat transfer when there is a larger pressure drop because the fluid's turbulence helps the heat transfer coefficient (U), but I have seen industrial coolers that are designed to have less than 0.2 psi of drop while flowing a heck of a lot more air, so it is certainly feasible.

Pressure drop is important because the higher the turbo discharge pressure is the higher the temperature of the turbo air. When we drop the turbo discharge pressure we also drop the temperature of the air coming out of the turbo. When we do that we also drop the intercooler outlet temperature, although not as much, but hey, every little bit helps. This lower pressure drop is part of the benefit offered by new, bigger front mount intercoolers; by the Duttweiler neck modification to stock location intercoolers; by bigger up pipes; and by bigger throttle bodies. You can also make the turbo work less hard by improving the inlet side to it. K&N air filters, free flowing MAF pipes, removing a screen from the MAF, removing the MAF itself when switching to an aftermarket fuel injection system, the upcoming 3" and 3.5" MAFs from Modern Muscle, these all reduce the pressure drop in the turbo inlet system which makes the compressor work less to produce the same boost which will reduce the turbo discharge temperature (among other, and probably greater, benefits).

[TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management]

Originally Posted by judec

have U guys measured the pressure drop? I've seen interesting data on Spearco IC and it raised my attention. Lemme quote an interesting paragraph posted on gnttype.org, related to pressure drop (read the whole article about IC here):

Pressure Drop
Another aspect of intercoolers to be considered is pressure drop. The pressure read by a boost gauge is the pressure in the intake manifold. It is not the same as the pressure that the turbocharger itself puts out. To get a fluid, such as air, to flow there must be a difference in pressure from one end to the other. Consider a straw that is sitting on the table. It doesn't having anything moving through it until you pick it up, stick it in your mouth, and change the pressure at one end (either by blowing or sucking). In the same way the turbo outlet pressure is higher than the intake manifold pressure, and will always be higher than the intake pressure, because there must be a pressure difference for the air to move.

The difference in pressure required for a given amount of air to move from turbo to intake manifold is an indication of the hydraulic restriction of the intercooler, the up pipe, and the throttle body. Let's say you are trying to move 255 gram/sec of air through a stock intercooler, up pipe, and throttle body and there is a 4 psi difference that is pushing it along (I'm just making up numbers here). If your boost gauge reads 15 psi, that means the turbo is actually putting up 19 psi. Now you buy a PT-70 and slap on some Champion heads. Now you are moving 450 gm/sec of air. At 15 psi boost in the intake manifold the turbo now has to put up 23 psi, because the pressure drop required to get the higher air flow is now 8 psi instead of the 4 that we had before. More flow with the same equipment means higher pressure drop. So we put on a new front mount intercooler. It has a lower pressure drop, pressure drop is now 4 psi, so the turbo is putting up 19 psi again. Now we add the 65 mm throttle body and the pressure drop is now 3 psi. Then we add the 2.5" up pipe, and it drops to 2.5 psi. Now to make 15 psi boost the turbo only has to put up 17.5 psi. The difference in turbo outlet temperature between 23 psi and 17.5 psi is about 40 deg (assuming a constant efficiency)! So you can see how just by reducing the pressure drop we can lower the temperatures while still running the same amount of boost.

I have seen some misunderstandings regarding intercooler pressure drop and how it relates to heat transfer. For example, one vendor's catalog implies that if you had little or no pressure drop then you would have no heat transfer. This is incorrect. Pressure drop and heat transfer are relatively independent, you can have good heat transfer in an intercooler that has a small pressure drop if it is designed correctly. It is easier to have good heat transfer when there is a larger pressure drop because the fluid's turbulence helps the heat transfer coefficient (U), but I have seen industrial coolers that are designed to have less than 0.2 psi of drop while flowing a heck of a lot more air, so it is certainly feasible.

Pressure drop is important because the higher the turbo discharge pressure is the higher the temperature of the turbo air. When we drop the turbo discharge pressure we also drop the temperature of the air coming out of the turbo. When we do that we also drop the intercooler outlet temperature, although not as much, but hey, every little bit helps. This lower pressure drop is part of the benefit offered by new, bigger front mount intercoolers; by the Duttweiler neck modification to stock location intercoolers; by bigger up pipes; and by bigger throttle bodies. You can also make the turbo work less hard by improving the inlet side to it. K&N air filters, free flowing MAF pipes, removing a screen from the MAF, removing the MAF itself when switching to an aftermarket fuel injection system, the upcoming 3" and 3.5" MAFs from Modern Muscle, these all reduce the pressure drop in the turbo inlet system which makes the compressor work less to produce the same boost which will reduce the turbo discharge temperature (among other, and probably greater, benefits).

-core specs are .5 psi pressure drop at 450hp(600cfm) worth of flow.
-removes the approximatly 2 inch restrictive factory connections and replaces them with 2.5 inch connections.
-temp drops of +/-60 degrees F at 13-13.5 psi over stock intercooler
-peak HP gains of 22whp at 13-13.5psi

[uberschnell]

So, ETA?

[Sniz]

Did you guys change much from the prototype FMIC that I am currently running for the production version you are about to release?

[TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management]

on the final design the biggest change is we went with 1/4 charge rows and 1/4 ambient rows with a lower ambient fin density. yours is 1/4 charge rows and 3/8 ambient rows with higher fin density. all geometry, endtank,charge piping is constant! both your prototype as well as our final design are more than enough intercooler for a 450hp 335i as you well know by now with the results your seeing.